ESL R1 | €500k Prize Pool at IEM Katowice for Rennsport-Based Event

RyokoMaruyama said:

To be quite frank... who the hell cares? This is sim racing, not CS:GO but with cars. Why are investors so hell bent on making this hobby something it isn't?

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Well... Many people...? Why simracing can't be eSports category?

Leynad777 said:

First the announcement of the Porsche 992 GT3 R for Rennsport

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Which makes it a bit funny that "Porsche Coanda" has "TBA" on car

Ole Marius Myrvold said:

Which makes it a bit funny that "Porsche Coanda" has "TBA" on car

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Tbh all teams have TBA there. Even those with Mercedes and BMW in the name.

I guess this was done just for a launch site, as many teams published their "hype" videos featuring their cars.

wow, massive hype there, sincerely hope it can live up to the hype. If it does - fine. If it does not: most of us won't notice the difference.

David Mann said:

Yes, this is very odd. I don't follow esports closely, but I can't think of any other event that used a game that hasn't even been released yet. There is a lot of money on the line here, I hope everyone involved has done their homework.

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Gran Turismo did that. I would assume that in this case, everyone involved is confident about Rennsport if they're throwing something of such scale already, and that it not being released has more to do with the lack of finished content at the moment.

If this thing goes well, it'll be MASSIVE for simracing. It's honestly mindblowing that nobody "big" in this industry has tried to grab the general gamers market, because that's where the growth potential really is. That's how you bring bigger investments and stop the whole genre from slowly dying.

GT-Alex said:

It's honestly mindblowing that nobody "big" in this industry has tried to grab the general gamers market, because that's where the growth potential really is.

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Of course, that there were some attempts. V10 League for example. Big budgets, broadcasts on BT Sport and ESPN. The problem was that they went 100% on getting into casuals completely forgetting simracing core.

krzysiek_aleks said:

I mean, right from the start they were very open about partnership with ESL. It should be quite clear, that they would put much emphasis on competitive simracing. Although I would never expect them at IEM so fast.

For those, that don't now - IEM in Katowice is THE esports event in Europe. Thousands and thousands of people coming to see pro CS:GO and other pro-esports titles in action together with many cosplayers etc. Tickets on resale market are worth more than 100 euros. Prices for hotel rooms or Airbnb's are insane. Katowice is a nice city, but not "150 euro per night in a mid flat" nice.

Looking at the list of teams, it's obvious what is their goal. Expand their reach. Simracing community will watch it anyway, or at least be mildly interested. With massive juggernauts of professional esports like FaZe they want to bring to their title new people. People, that maybe never heared about rFactor, Assetto Corsa, iRacing or simracing modding, but will recognize their team and because of that watch it. Some of them will want to play Rennsport simply because the guy they like has interest in it. That's how influencing works.

Let's be honest, if competitive simracing wants to become as popular form of esports as other genres, it HAS to bring new people. People that will want to watch it, people that will want to travel the world to support their teams. That interest will convince more sponsors to invest. Yes, we have Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari putting money into competitive simracing, and we are lucky for it (just imagine how many great cars would be missing from non-modable titles if they weren't so interested in simracing).

I put a lot of "competitive simracing". That's because I believe we have to separate it from "regular" simracing. Yes, for me and most of you the best way to appeal from Rennsport would be to release the damm beta, confirm how modding is going to work, but how many people they would bring? 15k?

It looks like they have bigger goals. And with ESL funding so massive bill for just two seasons of competitive Rennsport - they should have. There is a one million euros at stake. It wasn't gave a way like to a charity, they have to try to make it back. Pandering to a niche community won't help. Getting some percent of FaZe fanbase to buy their game/content in it/tickets to LAN events will. Cause if they can generate genuine interest in their title, sponsors will come and help fund that bill.

Tbh I'm happy they are starting with a LAN event, lesser chance of problems. Although we know, that this isn't a guarantee (akhem Gran Turismo World Series, akhem Vegas eRace).

With how vibrant Polish simracing scene is, I expect a great number of people going to Katowice to see the best of the best. Thankfully it will be at the IEM Expo, free-to-enter part of the show. I really think many of my compatriots wrote today to their friends in Katowice asking if they can found a couch or some floor to sleep on.

I'm still kinda careful towards Rennsport (especially with all the NFT-like stuff), but this? This looks REALLY interesting.

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You have a lot of great points, good read. Thank You
Well it looks like Rennsport is pursuing the likes of the Metaverse. Just as the Metaverse was implemented to attract oligarch owners, because who in their right mind can afford a virtual piece of land that costs tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is because the Metaverse was designed to be a digital prison, with the big (select) players being the only owners. (along with many more disturbing features)

I see the same happening with Rennsport. I will stick with supporting the vendors that have brought sim racing to the forefront... rFactor, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally, BeamNG, Automobilista, and all the rest of the independent sim racing houses (Thank you all). I will still read all the complaints and compliments alike, although I am seeing a surge in censorship even in sim racing.

Rennsport shares common ground with Meta, as they have the funds to do whatever they please... and they will.

I see this this tournament in Katowice is a LAN event, oh gee I hope they don’t suffer a power outage as that is the only concern other than switches and cables.... Don’t get me wrong, I wish nothing but luck for sim racers everywhere, but this seems to be taking the easy route to attention capture.

Yup, no DDOS attacks are gonna happen there. I used to have private LAN tournaments over 20 years ago. Running an on-line server/service is much more demanding and does provide a massively greater effort to pull off.

If a competitor to any on-line event wishes to implement pain, all you need is money. Very easy to accomplish....

NFT’s who cares... what a pile. We are heading into digital prison. That doesn’t send much thanks to all the fantastic modders out there either. Rennsport doesn’t mention anything about moddability, as I kinda don’t think that will be part of this model.

So for me nothing about Rennsport will ever be attractive. I will not use anything that requires a subscription. I no longer use any subscription based software either, and that took years to wean off. By the end of 2023 most will see the looming digital control, enjoy this time as it will never be the same again.
This is just an opinion... not meant to ruffle feathers or make anyone angry.

I wish all whom attend the Tournament in Katowice, all the best of luck possible.

Cheers fellow sim racers, and stay safe.

krzysiek_aleks said:

Of course, that there were some attempts. V10 League for example. Big budgets, broadcasts on BT Sport and ESPN. The problem was that they went 100% on getting into casuals completely forgetting simracing core.

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BT Sport and ESPN aren't gaming channels, they cater to an audience simracing already tried to grab and now either form part of the elitist crew or are people who will never invest themselves into anything "virtual" anyways by principle. There's nothing in common between getting a low audience slot on these channels and securing a main stage gig on some of the biggest shows for an industry that surpasses cinema and music combined.

The current "simracing core" audience is an extremely small niche with a good number of members thinking they're more important than they really are, and trying to cater to that audience is basically what everyone in the field keeps trying to do, and it's actually slowly killing the genre. The biggest somewhat functional titles in the genre are 10 years old or more now. ACC has less players than AC because it's too focused (and it's 5 years old already), GT7 has been a trainwreck, and everything else is small / low budget with a small playerbase - except F1 of course. Words from people I know in the industry say publishers willingness to invest into racing games is decreasing at an alarming rate right now, and that whole "hardcore" mentality is a direct cause of it.

The truth is the only racing game that does things right currently is Trackmania, and simracing should take example on its structure more. Of course, the synergies with real life motorsport are important, but trying to copycat real life too much won't bring either side anywhere. Simracing needs to do its own thing and evolve independently, not only to survive, but also because it could then become an innovation testbed for motorsports.

PieterG said:

I think these guys are kicking off on the wrong foot. They are going to host an event for a elite group of drivers. What about the true sim drivers who actually want to drive and test a new Sim which supports Modding to create mods on a new platform. Long live AC and RFactor2.

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Exactly. And I made this clear on their so-called discord chat where I signed up months ago for an early access Beta key that was promised to dopes like me that might actually provide some real-life input on what an everyday player might experience and be able to add to the sim. Now we hear that they are brushing us all off and giving the equivalent of beta keys to a bunch of insiders and youtubers who will firmly insert their noses into proverbial anal cavities in order to receive free flight vouchers to the race track of their choice and enjoy filet-mignon and backrubs. Well, those same youtubers can remove their noses and reach in and pull out a fresh copy of the game that I inserted there. Because that's what they can now do with it.

The same old delusion over and over...

Simracing should be big? Appeal to an esports "mass market"? How...? Simracing will NEVER be anything else than a cheap poor atempt at mimicking reality. And this is where it falls flat in terms of having "star appeal" for this. Why watch people playing a game that mimicks what people do in real life, with the added allure of real events, real cars and real people?

Forget it, it's never going to happen, unless maybe if real racing is banned, and even then... also people don't seem to understant that a big allure of real racing its the cars themselves. In the game, you have (usually poor) copycats of said cars, that's it.

Sure you could maybe have big esports events of mario kart. But thats because altough that game has "racing", it is completely removed from reality, and it has it's own scene and following.

But who wants to watch some guys trying to play reality, but fake, on screens, when there is more real racing than ever to watch? Who will the kids aspire to be, igor Fraga, Gregger Huttu, or Max Verstappen or Lando Norris?...

They can invest all the money they want, it will end up like all other esports simracing ventures, money down the drain, and if even Gran Turismo has trouble pulling numbers even remotely compared with the biggest esports games, what chances do this lot have....

I dont usually comment here but since im both a simracer and an esports enthusiast for ~14 years I thought, ill say a few things.
as far as i know, ESL is obviously now owned by a saudi company with a ton of funding. rennsport is an ambitious project, however i have to question wether it can achieve the success theyre aiming for. in traditional videogames, the vast majority of an esports viewership is its own playerbase. the reason why league of legends for example has really high viewership is because a ton of people play it.
now simracing is a little different because it isnt its own thing, its simulating motorsports, so you dont necessarily need to play the game to understand what would be going on in a rennsport esports event. however, there are games like cs go or rocket league that are "easy" to understand even if you never played those games but from my experience, that does not mean many people outside its playerbase will watch it. do acc players watch iracing esports events? probably not. do motorsports fans from real series who are not simracers watch simracing esports events? probably not.
most esports games grow big organically, meaning, its not the developer who pushes the game as an esport but Independent tournament organizers and those who are pushed straight out of the gate by a developer do have big playerbases, such as overwatch or valorant. before you have a successful esports scene, first you must have a successful game.
now the elephant in the room of course is that rennsport isnt even released to the public yet. there is no playerbase yet and simracing of course is a niche. the most successful simracing game is iracing which has an average playerbase of around 15-20k. thats peanuts compared to other esports games. and i have read that rennsport will be free to play and that of course gives it a lot of potential to be the biggest simracing game on the market. however a free to play model also comes with issues and difficulties. these games often experience more cheaters/hackers and the driving standard will probably be really low before you get to a high safety rating (if such a system is planned). so i can imagine that some of the people who do play ir/acc will give it a try and will be turned off by the really low initial driving standard. however then again, while there is a lot of potential for a big playerbase because of a f2p model, at the same time its UE5 engine will hold the game back in terms of playerbase because that game will require a powerful PC which not everyone has. when we go back to the big esports games, lol, dota, csgo, they purposely have lackluster graphics in order to let people enjoy the game who do run it dated hardware.
there will be a console version but apparently only much later. the question to me then is, does rennsport want people with gamepads playing their game? could of course do wonders to the playerbase but at the cost of an experience too far behind the likes of acc and iracing.
im cheering for rennsport, i really am, im glad for every additional competitor in the market and i will definitely try out the game once i have access to it, however i am unsure if their goals might not be a little too ambitious. you look at a game like rfactor2, been out for a decade and still struggling with basics and therefore has a really poor playerbase. i personally would like to see a well working game with a healthy and consistent playerbase before seeing a 500k esports tournament with a lot of established esports orgs. it makes it so much easier to fall flat early on and lose a lot of goodwill from many people, a risk that doesnt really need to be taken. they dont need to be in any rush, iracing has an established fanbase and there is no other sim game coming anytime soon, unless they know that AC2 might be coming soon which i dont think is the case.
i also hope they add more classes than gt3 because i find gt3 cars so boring to drive and literally every sim has gt3s in them, so im hoping for some prototypes/hypercars, but thats just my personal bias, gt3s are ofc very popular.
games such as gran turismo or forza have far higher playerbases than fully fledged sims like iracing/acc and are games centered around the gamepad experience but if thats the target audience, then your average iracing/acc player probably wiill have zero interest in the game.

If I were to watch racing. I'd watch real world racing. E-racing events to me are just odd. Certainly of no interest.

That said, the world turns, people try new things and its not my money or directed at me.

So before the game is even in a beta state it is being gatekept by invite only teams and rich Saudi's? I guess it lives up to the 'simulator' name in terms of where the money and racing drivers are coming from. Seems like Rennsport won't be for 'normal' simracers in the end.

This is not about racing or loving the sports/simracing. This is some shady rich dude investing into stuff, and giving out high prizes, etc etc. It's not about the people ,but about the money it can and will generate now and in the future.

Applies to all business ventures ever....

Metla said:

If I were to watch racing. I'd watch real world racing. E-racing events to me are just odd. Certainly of no interest.

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Just like watching cartoon version of adult movie.

Despite being wholly uninterested in Rennsport, I'm actually envious of those who get the opportunity to race at this event.

Verstappen gets to throw his toys out the cot again I guess.

The further the Rennsport road goes on the more I feel like it is bringing the simracing community to an intersection.

The more I read about it the more I believe that RS is not even trying to cater the "established" simracing community (us, the old guard) anymore or at all, but they rather focus on the 'young gamers' (our kids) in order to gather a 'fanbase' that will eventually sustain their product. It makes sense, business wise, as several here have already stated. And you can see this in the steps they take for developing their product. Choices like GT3 cars which are a 'safe' bet of known brands; a subscription model which is all too familiar to young gamers; promoting it within big gaming/esports events like Katowice (with attractive eSports prize money).

They choose to do all that, instead of reaching out to the established simracing community (maybe how Project CARS ended up spook them?). And that's what I mean with "coming to an intersection".

I agree with @Typ190 's opinion: "Before you have a successful esports scene, first you must have a successful game." But this developer is not doing things the way we are used to... yet I also wonder if that is a good thing for simracing. Maybe I'm getting too old to see this is the way forward for our hobby? Maybe it is just a reflection of what the gaming industry has become and it's dragging simracing with it? I should probably have a chat about this with my gaming teenager.

There is an article at Overtake about the controversy regarding track-limits at this weekend's Daytona 24h:


"Following the controversy surrounding the iRacing Daytona 24 Hours, an interesting debate is emerging. In a long rant on Twitter, Tony Kanaan finally pondered the question as to whether simracing should follow the same rules as real-world motorsport."

Do we need to redefine what simracing is? To most of us, it is about the most accurate digital simulation of real motorsports, rules included. But if this kind of simracing has never gone beyond a 'niche' within the spectrum of videogames/esports (even with the boost it got from the pandemic), does it need a new "model" in order to survive? Or do we want simracing to stay the way it is and risk our hobby fading away because "it is not profitable for the modern gaming industry"? Will Rennsport or AC2 or a new title be able to achieve both?

Just thinking out loud chaps... ...my coffee was kind of strong this morning.

Andrew_WOT said:

Just like watching cartoon version of adult movie.

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Are you tellin' me you didn't fancy Jessica Rabbit?... c'mon dude