BTCC DLC Coming to rFactor 2

Bela Valko said:

Same old, same old, when I bought this "game" for $80 many years ago people were complaining about the same things as today except the DLCs because there was no DLC back then. Graphics, AI, multiplayer, etc. Not much has changed, except the owner, this is rF2.
So the thing is I'm not gonna buy this DLC early (and probably any car packs later might come) for two reasons:
1. what if I don't like the car(s)? Refund is not possible with DLCs.
2 .the cars (and tracks) coming later will be separate entities. When I bought the GTE and GT3 pack I thought I'm buying a complete package instead later they released additional GTE and GT3 cars for another €5 per car. No problem with plus content but they should have offered at least a discount or sthing for pack owners because without the later added content you can't use any of the cars online you bought within the pack which is ridiculous.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Btw the current price structure _would_ be OK if online multiplayer would be a thing. iR can get away with those prices not because the awesome quality of their content but because people like to play online against others and not against bots, no wonder iR is the most famous sim, then ACC, then RRR, then the rest, multiplayer gaming attracts people. iR charges that much for the online experience.

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Again, fallacy.
iRacing’s prices are way, way, waaaay higher.
Q1 content: Daytona, Ligier LMP3, Dallara IR18 and M4 GT3 cost, as a pack, €16,80.

That content in iRacing would cost on or around €55,00.

MJQT said:

Yes, it has been debunked. And I used to think the same as v4V474, but got corrected by several people who know more about AMS2 (and I was shown evidence why I was wrong). v4V474 is correct that AMS2 uses PC2 assets, but incorrect that they are "improving existing tracks" from PC2. Reiza has made scratch-built tracks for all of these (except possibly Monaco, I don't recall) but then to speed up development has re-used select 3D assets (e.g. trackside objects) from the PC2 tracks for tracks like Road America and the Glen.

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I would like to see that evidence.
I don’t question that Reiza had to do work on those tracks, but I honestly don’t believe that those tracks were made from scratch.
It would have been absolutely senseless if they did.
And I am not saying this to undermine Reiza. It’s just that it makes zero sense to waste thousands of man hours of 3D work.

Love this game just don't play it enough. A one button Le Mans race weekend set up would change that but I think RF2 is now what it's going to be. Top quality sim with a not great accessibility. All they need is a panel which says Le Mans experience (or whatever it may be) and everything is ready to go, all cars ready etc, all working, no glitches etc.

On the subject of making adjustments to the player.json file to improve AI performance being preposterous/ridiculous/unacceptableetc...
Well, it’s not ideal, but to research and make those adjustments takes about the same time that those complainers spend posting their gibberish here :-D

Yogi99 said:

Love this game just don't play it enough. A one button Le Mans race weekend set up would change that but I think RF2 is now what it's going to be. Top quality sim with a not great accessibility. All they need is a panel which says Le Mans experience (or whatever it may be) and everything is ready to go, all cars ready etc, all working, no glitches etc.

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lol! Do you want the game to drive for you too? Tell me which simulation sets up a one click race for you as you are asking for.
To set up a LeMans race with the reasonably approximate parameters takes 5min.
Should it be simpler in some points, such as defining better and easier the classes and the number of cars in each class? Sure, but one click?

v4v474 said:

lol! Do you want the game to drive for you too? Tell me which simulation sets up a one click race for you as you are asking for.
To set up a LeMans race with the reasonably approximate parameters takes 5min.
Should it be simpler in some points, such as defining better and easier the classes and the number of cars in each class? Sure, but one click?

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Do people still use LOL? Yes, I think we agree, defining classes should be done better and be much easier. That wasn't so hard was it. I used the one click phrase as a way to get my point across without having to explain it in more detail. Looks like that backfired, LOL.

v4v474 said:

On the subject of making adjustments to the player.json file to improve AI performance being preposterous/ridiculous/unacceptableetc...
Well, it’s not ideal, but to research and make those adjustments takes about the same time that those complainers spend posting their gibberish here :-D

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Not quite one button, but choose your car, then customize, choose the Le Mans aero and finally Force Setup. Done.

ì

v4v474 said:

Again, fallacy.
iRacing’s prices are way, way, waaaay higher.
Q1 content: Daytona, Ligier LMP3, Dallara IR18 and M4 GT3 cost, as a pack, €16,80.

That content in iRacing would cost on or around €55,00.

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I know it's higher, who said it's not? I was talking about why it's higher.
Btw on iR you can also buy in bundles (-10-30%) and on top of that if you already bought x number of content (i think it's 40) that also adds 20% discount. So you can buy those items for way less than 55 for sure.
Anyways, I don't even have a subscription at iR since 2017 so who cares... but the thing is when I was a really active sim racer the online experience always pulled me back to iR even though everybody knew their tire model is shiet. It's just on another level vs racing against bots. And they charge for that. But this is pretty evident, most people also like to play Battlefield/Call of Duty, Street Fighter etc. vs humans and not against bots, it's 2022.

MJQT said:

Reiza has made scratch-built tracks for all of these (except possibly Monaco, I don't recall) but then to speed up development has re-used select 3D assets (e.g. trackside objects) from the PC2 tracks for tracks like Road America and the Glen.

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They even re-did Monaco and by now, in the v1.3.0.0 update:
"On the track front, the Azure street circuit has been completely overhauled with the aid of laser scan data." and "Added updated Azure 2021 (replacing old Azure)"
Source: https://forum.reizastudios.com/thre...ed-now-updated-to-v1-3-0-1.21929/#post-160010

gianlucaP said:

And... $80?? I don't remember the game being so expensive back then. You sure?

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Yep, in 2015 when there was still the lifetime online thing attached to it. I got it 44% discounted and paid €48 Euros for it. But it was abolutely worth it back then IMO.

v4v474 said:

Again, fallacy.
iRacing’s prices are way, way, waaaay higher.
Q1 content: Daytona, Ligier LMP3, Dallara IR18 and M4 GT3 cost, as a pack, €16,80.

That content in iRacing would cost on or around €55,00.

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To be fair to be cheaper than iracing is hardly an achievement. Rf2 really shoots itself in the leg with its dlc policy tho. The prices are definitely on the expensive side (they are clearly targeting their loyal rf2 base with the pricing model) and combined with the way you need to own all content to drive one car really highlights it. Unless you just drive offline against the ai.

Your example is also wrong in that in iracing you only need one car and one month sub if the track comes with the base subscription. You don't need to own all the other cars on track in iracing just like you don't need to in any other sim.

iRacing's price model is a problem..
Buying rF2 coming DLCs is an investment for the future.

v4v474 said:

I would like to see that evidence.
I don’t question that Reiza had to do work on those tracks, but I honestly don’t believe that those tracks were made from scratch.
It would have been absolutely senseless if they did.
And I am not saying this to undermine Reiza. It’s just that it makes zero sense to waste thousands of man hours of 3D work.

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I thought the exact same as you at first. 2+2 makes 4, right? Well, in this case, it doesn't. Unless Reiza is lying through their teeth over and over again here and on their forums, and I don't believe any developer would do that. Quick example I found from the comments section in this RD article:

MadDriver11 said:

It's the other way around: they are starting from scratch and adding based on a deal with SMS some of their trackside objects. Reiza (Renato Simioni) have stated it here in this forum and on their forum so many times. Even the person who is actually working on the tracks for Reiza came here to explain it.
Get over it: it's not re-worked tracks from PC2, its brand new tracks which are using some of the buildings from the PC2 tracks, not all and not always. It's the polar opposite.

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Ghoults said:

To be fair to be cheaper than iracing is hardly an achievement. Rf2 really shoots itself in the leg with its dlc policy tho. The prices are definitely on the expensive side (they are clearly targeting their loyal rf2 base with the pricing model) and combined with the way you need to own all content to drive one car really highlights it. Unless you just drive offline against the ai.

Your example is also wrong in that in iracing you only need one car and one month sub if the track comes with the base subscription. You don't need to own all the other cars on track in iracing just like you don't need to in any other sim.

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stop thinking rF2 is in agony or dead, for information, the GT3 DLC has +150 000 suscribers (=buyers), so you can guess how much money they earn with each DLC....Nothing is wrong with s397.
If you cry for 15€ and a DLC, go find a job and work. I would hate my life if I can't pay 15€ for a DLC.

With the pricing people should keep a bit in mind dat buying rf2 stuff is a bit niche, its not like GT7 or AC which have a much bigger userbase. So a lot of the slightly higher pricing comes from that, its the same if you buy a book on a very specialized subject. Im all fine with the price.

But man oh man why cant they fix some longstanding bugs (e.g. dangerous jolts on DD wheel on restarts) and get a user friendly competition system, the latter has really stagnated at a point below being viable? And a decent HUD please. The UI has improved but the AI opponent selection is still crap.

Ghoults said:

To be fair to be cheaper than iracing is hardly an achievement. Rf2 really shoots itself in the leg with its dlc policy tho. The prices are definitely on the expensive side (they are clearly targeting their loyal rf2 base with the pricing model) and combined with the way you need to own all content to drive one car really highlights it. Unless you just drive offline against the ai.

Your example is also wrong in that in iracing you only need one car and one month sub if the track comes with the base subscription. You don't need to own all the other cars on track in iracing just like you don't need to in any other sim.

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One month subscription is more expensive that 1 RF2 car at full asking price. Even if you get the monthly subscription down by going for a full year.
And you can’t touch anything that you paid for unless you have a live subscription.
Your IFs are weak arguments because you create a scenario that is way worse that you get from just buying RF2 base game.
You can easily buy RF2 for €12,50 from a steam sales and the content you get for free allows you to join dozens of leagues without having to spend a dime more.
I am not undermining what iRacing has: a brilliant business model, on top of a top notch infrastructure which, at one point in time, was $20 Million in debt (to its owner), so you can understand the scale of what is needed to provide an online service at that level.
RF2 will never take iR’s place in that market. It simply can’t.
And on the matter of the DLC pricing, what sort of money do you thing S397 would do if it sold it even cheaper?
S397 is not profitable and I doubt it will ever be.
Sadly, NASCAR 21 was a huge dud because it’s on simcades that there is a market space to generate big $$$.
MSG needs to get the 22 season expansion pack out with a playable patched core and try to get a 23 game properly done, along with a Codemasters’ F1 - like IndyCar game, to really be able to keep a “toy” like S397 going as its “development lab”.

MJQT said:

I thought the exact same as you at first. 2+2 makes 4, right? Well, in this case, it doesn't. Unless Reiza is lying through their teeth over and over again here and on their forums, and I don't believe any developer would do that. Quick example I found from the comments section in this RD article:

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That post contradicts itself. If they are using 3D assets, there is already a huge amount of work saved. We are talking about many man hours of 3D work.

v4v474 said:

That post contradicts itself. If they are using 3D assets, there is already a huge amount of work saved. We are talking about many man hours of 3D work.

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Assets to the side of a racing surface are just....candy. How many modded tracks for rF2 or AC use pre-existing structures and materials? If the track itself is self-made by Reiza then that is enough for me to call it workable. We have a track builder in the rF2 world who is painstakingly recreating the 1987ish Bathurst. right down to the location of every freakin' tree on the circuit grounds.(using aerial photography) His attention to detail awes me as he puts up picture after picture. But once I'm on the track, all those signs, birds, trees, garbage cans, outhouses, restaurants, fences, parking areas, et al, all that becomes a blur. So I'm not bothered in the least if some content is reused, with permissions of course.

Awesome !! More content !!! I WANT MORE CONTENT !!!!!!

great news
I hope studio 397 will release a full license with all btcc cars and laser scan circuits .... same for indycar ... I prefer full licenses than full series with one or two cars like a lot of simulation after finish the Wec license with the GT3s
Lamborghini Huracan GT3 Evo2
Ferrari 296 GT3
Honda NSX GT3 Evo
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 GT3 R
Corvette C8 R GTD
Hypercars
LMDh for le mans 2023 (100 years) 2024

esport event with pro driver to sell as many dlc as possible and increase rfactor2's audience and advertise with the hope of top notch multiplayer