Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Richard Eriksson]

I think the main reason why body roll is so much more noticeable in AC is because they have mainly roadcars with a lot of roll. RF2 improved a lot in the IndyCar and FR 2014 you notice more roll than in the Formula Abarth.
Still for me AC is nice for roadcars, but not for race cars.
In regards of FFB you are right, that it is indeed more realistic to "feel less" unfortunately we have no other way to get a feel for the car except for the FFB. When you drive something like a Kart in anger in the real world and focus on the "FFB" it is actually not that much even without power steering and therefore closer to AC. If you focus on the whole experience rF2 does a better job on replicating that. In the end that replication makes it more immersive for me as I feel like I am driving, but ACs FFB is closer to what a real wheel feels like.

Exactly. rF2 feels more immersive, in total, when it comes to steering inputs and feedback through the wheel. But AC is not bad in this regard either. Especially under braking and slip, AC is actually very good at conveying the forces, albeit in a more "dull" way.

As i stated earlier, for me the best title out there at the moment is RaceRoom Experience, after the recent updates. When dialed in correctly the FFB is amazing. Also, the newer pay cars released are really well modeled, dynamics wise. For instance, the slip angle tolerance feels totally correct for the ADAC GT Camaro, a car that i have actually driven a counterpart of at race pace in real life. It also conveys an excellent feeling of weight under braking. To me RRE actually destroys AC, rF2 and GSCE at the moment. Unfortunately it's not a complete package yet...

 

[Calum McLure]

Was about to say something similar Richard, RaceRoom has really sneaked up on me in the past few weeks I'd had it installed for just over a year and never really bothered with it but recently I decided to give it another try and it's fast becoming one of my favorites to drive on. It's still missing a few features to make it rival rFactor 2 for me but once they are added I can see me swapping sides

One of the appealing things is they try to add as many cars from a series as they can, where as with rF2 they just seem to add one car from a series. The Honda Civic is great but without other touring cars to go with it just gets a bit boring. Same with the GT1-2-3-4.

Also I'd say the BMW M1 is probably my favorite car in any sim right now.

 

[John Peat]

I used to play the 'free competition' content on R3E - I greatly enjoyed the old touring cars but the newer cars always felt a bit sterile and the handling was a bit odd for me (it felt - if I'm honest, like GRID, springy and jumpy in the corners)

People say the newer cars (ADAC GTs) are great and they're rolling the changes through the game - I think my only remaining problem is that it uses it's own membership system rather than Steam which means I have to find friends AGAIN and convince them to sign-up and play it (why on earth does it not just use Steam's stuff??)

p.s. one other gripe - everyone I know who's played it has had free money sent to them EXCEPT me - I'm talking enough free money to buy most of the decent cars and tracks - about £20!! This peeves me - DO check your SPAM folders for emails from them!!

 

[Connor Caple]

I finally retried R3E this week, but the FFB on my G25 was terrible. It was like there was a floaty deadspot in the centre 20 degrees of the wheel and made it undriveable.

I'm downloading rF2 demo at the moment to see how that has progressed. I still load up my rF1 disc for a drive sometimes, even though the game looks a bit shabby compared to AC these days.

I think R3E and rF2 have both tried to pursue strange payment models. I'd rather just buy a game and get the content, with maybe upgrade packs each year like Race07 used to have. I tried iRacing and didn't like the FFB at all, or the payment model, so won't ever be going back there no matter how many special offers they send me.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I finally retried R3E this week, but the FFB on my G25 was terrible. It was like there was a floaty deadspot in the centre 20 degrees of the wheel and made it undriveable.

I'm downloading rF2 demo at the moment to see how that has progressed. I still load up my rF1 disc for a drive sometimes, even though the game looks a bit shabby compared to AC these days.

I think R3E and rF2 have both tried to pursue strange payment models. I'd rather just buy a game and get the content, with maybe upgrade packs each year like Race07 used to have. I tried iRacing and didn't like the FFB at all, or the payment model, so won't ever be going back there no matter how many special offers they send me.

Yes, the R3E pricing model is strange, but rF2 is easy. If you want it offline buy the 45$ version with 1 year online free or go for the lifetime version and you can always upgrade to lifetime, so yeah I think everyone should go for the 45$ version and see if you want to drive it online after 1 year and then go for the lifetime version.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

We all know that graphics are not the be all for determining what makes a great racing sim but still a little graphics preening wouldn't hurt:

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

We all know that graphics are not the be all for determining what makes a great racing sim but still a little graphics preening wouldn't hurt:

There ia currently a bug with some shaders. I saw screenshots with it being fixed and the improvement was bigger than I thougt, but on the graphics side still bit disappointing, but the driving is so much fun

 

[Connor Caple]

GSCE uses the old ISI rFactor engine and yet looks better than rF2 - I'm puzzled

 

[John Peat]

My understanding is that Reiza have applied/created quite a few improvements to the rFactor graphics - it certainly looks a lot nicer to my eyes...

iSi will have taken the track Reiza made and fed it into rFactor2 but because it's an rFactor track it's likely being rendered without any of the improvements made to rF2.

Put another way, rF2 is playing the track as-if it were rF - GSC is rf 'and some' - but it does highlight the amount of work needed to make a good looking track for a modern sim I guess...

 

[Fishey55]

Hello, I wanted to comment on this topic for awhile now. First off I've been a flight simmer for 30+ years and though I dabbled in driving sims, it wasn't until last January that I really got the bug. So being somewhat new, less then a year, I'd like to share my first impression of RF2.
Back in 05'-06' some of us 'flyers' messed around with rFactor and we had a lot of fun, but eventually I got back to flying and forgot about racing for awhile. Then early this year I ran into a couple of my old squad mates and they told me about iRacing. I tried it and had a great time, I really liked the structure, especially for an online sim. So I went out and bought a G27 and started racing like it was 1999!
After my first month I really wanted a single player experience so I could just drive without worry and make mistakes against an AI that wouldn't cost me safety points, i rating, etc.. I immediately looked for rFactor and was pleased to find 2 was available. I installed it and right away I thought there was something wrong...it looked horrible, I started to search around thinking it was my PC but at the end of the day graphically it's just disappointing. It also lacks any consistency, it just feels like a bunch of stuff thrown together. Now I understand its more of a sandbox but the base should all be of the same quality and follow some kind of line, no? That being said I turned to the mods, not only did I not find anything that really made me want to play but for whatever reason even adding something as simple as a skin seems unnecessarily long winded. I remember in RF1 and even now in all the current sims, you just unzip and drop what you want in the correct folder, thats it!
In the end I was prompted to look elsewhere and I actually ended up purchasing a few alternatives, Assetto Corsa, R3E & Game Stockcar Extreme, oh and I just tried F1 2014. All of these are pleasing to the eye and have a consistent look and feel about them. Now as I get more accustomed to CPU driving, I'm sure I'll learn what is a hack job and what isn't but right now I can't say one sim is superior to another. What I can say is, its hard to pick up RF2 with these other options.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I am usually too busy focussing on braking points grip, weight shift, line, brake balance, tyre temps, tyre management and racing to worry too much about the aesthetics.
From time to time I might set a race time in the late afternoon to get a better "look" but for me its all about the authenticity of the physics, FFB and the driving experience and the rest are decoration. They have however improved dramatically over 12 months.
IMO RF2 keeps getting better.

When I moved from the Codies titles to RF2 it blew me away.
I guess a sign is that Race Pro which is the most authentic sim for Xbox pleased me more than F1 2011 (and 2014 is no better and probably less authentic).

I drove Sao Paulo yesterday and was so immersed it was unbelievable. I worked on set up for 65 laps in the Nissan GTR GT1 (with a skin I did myself BTW-its easy once you know how). Found 4.5 sec in setup and in technique.
If you asked me what the track looked like other than the great pit lane detail I couldn't tell you. Oh I remember on a replay, using a long distance camera group I could see the atmospheric effects of the air. Oh yes I remember the setting sun making it hard to see the 200m board at T4.

When you have experienced one 1/2 spin compromising a tyre for the rest of that stint, had to manage all of that for 1 hour in a team endurance event, prior to pitting changed wing settings and brake balance fuel load and yes even tyre pressures for the driver who is about to enter the car. Seen the brake marker migrate to the corner as tyres came up to temp and fuel load dropped then migrate towards you as they wear. Then done this with one eye on the real world weather report as it was being rendered in-game within a 2-5min window.
Then you have experienced an awesome sim in my view of course.

It seems to me that since the dawn of the racing game there has been the physics tribe and the graphics tribe.
Neither will fully understand the other. Each to their own.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Hello, I wanted to comment on this topic for awhile now. First off I've been a flight simmer for 30+ years and though I dabbled in driving sims, it wasn't until last January that I really got the bug. So being somewhat new, less then a year, I'd like to share my first impression of RF2.
Back in 05'-06' some of us 'flyers' messed around with rFactor and we had a lot of fun, but eventually I got back to flying and forgot about racing for awhile. Then early this year I ran into a couple of my old squad mates and they told me about iRacing. I tried it and had a great time, I really liked the structure, especially for an online sim. So I went out and bought a G27 and started racing like it was 1999!
After my first month I really wanted a single player experience so I could just drive without worry and make mistakes against an AI that wouldn't cost me safety points, i rating, etc.. I immediately looked for rFactor and was pleased to find 2 was available. I installed it and right away I thought there was something wrong...it looked horrible, I started to search around thinking it was my PC but at the end of the day graphically it's just disappointing. It also lacks any consistency, it just feels like a bunch of stuff thrown together. Now I understand its more of a sandbox but the base should all be of the same quality and follow some kind of line, no? That being said I turned to the mods, not only did I not find anything that really made me want to play but for whatever reason even adding something as simple as a skin seems unnecessarily long winded. I remember in RF1 and even now in all the current sims, you just unzip and drop what you want in the correct folder, thats it!
In the end I was prompted to look elsewhere and I actually ended up purchasing a few alternatives, Assetto Corsa, R3E & Game Stockcar Extreme, oh and I just tried F1 2014. All of these are pleasing to the eye and have a consistent look and feel about them. Now as I get more accustomed to CPU driving, I'm sure I'll learn what is a hack job and what isn't but right now I can't say one sim is superior to another. What I can say is, its hard to pick up RF2 with these other options.

For me there is a big diffrence between realistic and good looking. If I look at things like AC or F1 201X they may look beautiful, but when I look outside my window they dont look like the real world. I saw a comparison between AC and real world and you could argue, that the real world graphics look bad.
I think there is still roon for improvements in rFactor 2 but for me the graphics ate enough to feel like I am really driving there.
It is hard to find good looking rF2 videos in youtube as the low bitrate kills the graphics completely, but I know a nice video, that manages to show of the details of the sim (Including me in the 77 Civic and the 99 Indycar ). Of course you have to watch in 1080p.

rFactor 2 | Slow Motion:

 

[David O'Reilly]

another.
and quite frankly when I compare this to real world its better too.
Apart from the aesthetics check out the work going into the wheel.
If this isnt good enough then I'm just too easy to please

 

[John Peat]

@Fishey55 said "lacks consistency" - something I'd 100% agree with tbh

Some of the rf2 content is great but some is less than brilliant - some of the tracks have a 'made from random models found on the Net' feel to them if I'm honest.

Earlier I said something about it feeling a bit 'Train Sim' in terms of the varying quality of tracks and trackside objects in particular (have I just passed the same house twice on a lap at Spa? I think I have!!)

No use just posting videos of the best bits - taken on the best PCs. Reality is that someone playing rf2 will have high points and low points and some people will remember the low points more than the high points.

As I said - the task of creating tracks for modern sims is considerable - you can't laser-scan 60s racetracks - you can't just pull-in tracks from other sims and expect a consistent look/feel either.

 

[Connor Caple]

I found, even with full 8xAA on rF2, the tracks and line edges still looked very jaggy. Even though it took a performance hit, it just didn't look any better at speed.

My basis for comparison obviously has to be AC which runs at similar frame rates and looks much better. rF2 does not look any better than Race 07 in my honest opinion.

 

[Fishey55]

One thing that makes noticing my surroundings might be the fact I that I use 3x 26" monitors so the world is right there! Don't get me wrong, with flight simming I held onto some sims that were way past their prime, Falcon 4, FS9, so I'm not totally hung up on graphics alone. But for someone just getting into PC racing their are a lot of alternatives that have very good physics and stunning visuals. Recently I have spent a lot of time with GSC and I love it! It looks fantastic, driving is a challenge and from what I'm to understand it is basically an RF1 mod! What really makes it palatable is getting into the sim and finding all the cars and tracks have a familiar look and feel to them. Earlier someone posted a side by side video of San Paulo, that just speaks volumes!

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

One thing that makes noticing my surroundings might be the fact I that I use 3x 26" monitors so the world is right there! Don't get me wrong, with flight simming I held onto some sims that were way past their prime, Falcon 4, FS9, so I'm not totally hung up on graphics alone. But for someone just getting into PC racing their are a lot of alternatives that have very good physics and stunning visuals. Recently I have spent a lot of time with GSC and I love it! It looks fantastic, driving is a challenge and from what I'm to understand it is basically an RF1 mod! What really makes it palatable is getting into the sim and finding all the cars and tracks have a familiar look and feel to them. Earlier someone posted a side by side video of San Paulo, that just speaks volumes!

From my POV you have consistency on all ISI content maybe apart from Sao Paulo, which is still an early version. In mods you have varying quality, but that is the same for other sims, so I cant quite get the lack of consistency as the main content is pretty consistent. I cant find any ISI car or track where I could say it is bad or not up to standard.

 

[JeffL]

There is so many variables in graphics, card, color profiles, monitor, lighting in the room, bad eyes, I'm mean, I just don't trust people's opinion on graphics. I can make just about any sim look good enough for immersion. For sure good enough to make Rf2 with its physics an awesome experience.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

As I noted when I posted that comparison video the point - and which seems to be getting lost or ignored in subsequent posts - is graphics is not the end all and be all to a good race sim. rFactor2 has great physics - arguably the best out there to many.

But it is disconcerting to compare its graphics look against a game built on the previous generations game engine and see it fall short - both in terms of fidelity and performance in terms of frame per second. Especially when run on as identical conditions as possible.

No doubt there are some that possess the technical prowess and patience to fiddle with rFactor2 to make it look better but the bottom line is you should not have to.

And the all important physics gap between the two is not that great. I find GCSE pretty realistic and more fun to drive. Personal preference, obviously. If rFactor2 is number one in terms of physics, GCSE is a very close second. GSCE definitely looks and runs better.

Graphics will, and should never be the defining mark, of what makes a great race sim. But at the same time, a sim should be aware of how the competition looks realizing that all things being equal, or near equal, one that looks better will invariably attract more attention.

And that is something rFactor2 should be concerned about if it wants to thrive.

 

[JeffL]

GSCE definitely looks and runs better.

"Definitely" is a precarious word when used in an opinion.