What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

So there's something wrong with DFGT's physics?

I 'd suggest experimenting with the .rcs-file, adjusting the steering values that cannot be changed in-game.

 

[Msportdan]

another compare coming up...

but tried this against rf2 bayro, (z4 gt) and rf2 felt planted and connected to the tarmac, rre just feels numb here.. Its the only way i can describe it.. can i say ice racing.

i know im gonna get shot down,, but thats what i feel, and i have 3 other top sims to compare it to, and out of the four AC, RF2, GSCE and RRe, it has the less pleasing handling of them all.

However it has that shift2 fun factor, just not entirely realistic to me.

Now ive posted videos ive tried rcs files ,ive played wih FFb settings etc etc, ive done as much as i can. Now its the devs turn sorry.

 

[James Cook]

Perhaps this game just isn't for you? No shame in that. We're fortunate enough to have four or five good new sims on the market so maybe take a break from R3E?

 

[Msportdan]

james your absolutely right my friend..

maybe come back after a few months. or in new year, see whats happening.

I just want to add sorry (everyone) for the aggro in this thread and me bangin on about this. But This game has everything right so far, i just cant get on with the physics/handling. For me if this part isnt satisfying or rewarding then doesnt matter how many tracks cars great gfx sound, it has, it wont get played.

ANyway thanks for everyone that helped, (sorry to andi for rubbing you up the wrong way, no harm meant ay mate?) .

happy racing guys.

 

[James Cook]

I had to do the same with rF2. As much as I enjoyed the physics and FFB I was really fed up with the lack of progress in features and content. It's been about six months since I last played it properly although I plan to check back on it in the new year.

GSC and its spin-offs are what I always go back to when I want something that's a great all-rounder.

 

[Connor Caple]

I really have NO idea what is wrong with Msportdan's setup. Comparing R3E to Shift2? YHGTBFKM!

I hated Shift 2 and if R3E felt ANYTHING remotely like that I would never touch it again - even with someone else's...

Have fun with your other sims, I know I do.

 

[Ernie]

First of all i have to say, that i don't have such huge problems with swaying and floaty feeling of the cars. Even if it exists, but it doesn't bothers me that much.

Nevertheless i did some tests by myself a few weeks ago.
Testprocedure was driving straight with no hands on the wheel, and then giving the wheel a steering impulse with a little nudge. Tested in rF2, AC, R3E and with different driving speeds to see what happens.
Tested cars: URD-Corvette in rF2, SLS GT3 in AC, GT-Masters-Corvette in R3E.
My steering wheel is a Fanatec GT3RS and i'm using the same wheel settings in all 3 sims.

Basically the swaying is existent in all 3 tested sims. The only difference is the driving speed at which the oscillations of the steering wheel become that strong to unsettle the car.
In all 3 sims and at low speed (80km/h) the steering wheel is centering itself (due to tyre force, inertia, etc.), even if you give it a little push from the side.

This effect changes with more driving speed. In rF2 the car still corrects itself at 150km/h, but at 200km/h the steering wheel starts to oscillate by that little nudge and the car ends in the wall.
In AC this happens earlier at about 140-150km/h and in R3E unstoppable oscillations start right above 100km/h.

It seems that the effect of an oscillating steering wheel and some kind floaty feeling ist more prominent in R3E, respectively happens earlier.
As a conclusion comes into my mind, that the weight transfer and body roll of the chassis is perhaps slightly exaggerated in R3E. Another point could be, that the tyre force and inertia, which corrects the car to go straight, doesn't scale right with the driving speed.

Final note: This tests reflects only my personal experiences with the 3 sims and the tested (different) cars. It's nowhere near to give a representive picture of the situation, but maybe it's an attempt for a possible solution.

 

[Emilio]

A break from the game is definitely helpful. If you re experiencing this and there's no solution whatsoever at the moment, frustrating yourself is just not a wise move. Maybe uninstall it completely and delete EVERYTHING. Next time you want to give it a try again you're sure there's no leftover from past builds and chances are you won't be getting the same problems you've been through in these weeks. Sorry it didn't work out for the best, but 'm sure devs are aware of this issue and will ttake a look at it to see if something can be done!
See ya soon!

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Have you tried deleting your controller file in my documents/my games/simbin and check the integrity in steam properties so it downloads and updates the latest controller files? What do you have your ffb setting to degrees of rotation? Too high it could be clipping.
A while back I had oscillating in pretty much every title, in rf2 the wheel would flop back and forth when exiting the pits like the ffb was reverse but would correct itself once on track..Pcars felt like a 2 ton spring that shock back and forth on straights ac was similar. RRE was flopping back and forth while in the pits as well. I deleted my controlleg profiles in all games and now none of them do it any more....worth a try!
Comparing shift 2 to any game I find is a slap in the face to any dev. That game had the worst physics ever created in a racing title
Taking a break every now and them is always a good idea especially when hoping from sim to sim, they all do something physics wise really good but differently and you end up wanting all those good things all in one sim

 

[Msportdan]

okay .... I will honestly say here what im noticing across the sims we have mentioned..

ill pin point the exact problem RRe has.

That is when you turn the wheel one way ( you feel the traction in the ffb) but when you then suddenly have to correct or straighten up (when you should expect twice as much force in the wheel given traction and momentum without powersteering) the opposite way. There is no feel there, no force in the wheel it just goes light, its as if you turn on tarmac on way and the other on ice. That's whats giving the floaty feelin.

Try it, go into a corner or straight then turn one way then the other. Its not my wheel its the game. That why you get the sway out of corners, because you are expecting more force returning the input of the wheel, and there is none. There nothing to feel what the tyres doing here. Theres nothing.

ive even maxxed out steering force yet ffb still goes light.

I will bet my bottom dollar (sector 3 you listening?) if you correct this, everyone will notice it and immediately say how the feeling has improved..

shame you cant access the files as im sure, this is a simple ffb code change..

Happy Saturday nite guys..

take care

 

[shardshunt]

it sounds weird but race 07 has the best ffb of any of the sims i own but i blame my wheel being from around that era (ps2)

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

here is no feel there, no force in the wheel it just goes light, its as if you turn on tarmac on way and the other on ice

isn't every sim doing this? never had a sim that does the opposite, is there even one? But it would be worth a try, double the force in the wheel, who knows.

The (or another/next) floaty/boaty feeling comes if you turn your wheel fast to one direction, it's like if you turn the wheel and the car moves 45° in 10 frames per second, whereas it should move 45° in 25 frames (as example). Not sure if physics-side,wheel/ffb,render engine or what causes this, it just doesn't look/behave natural in my eyes

 

[Skazz]

Even after the recent FFB update I wasn't hugely convinced by R3E, but having spent a bunch of hours this weekend following wheel setting advice from this forum I've found a sweet spot.

With the T500 I have overall FFB at 55% (still getting a little clipping so this might go down further), and the key items are vertical load 200% and lateral force 120%. I dropped understeer down to 90% and left steering rack forces off. The combination gives much better track feel and seems to be sufficient that I know what the car is doing now, so I can actually start pushing and feeling the car reapond, which is the sign of a good sim to me.

The physics, no longer burdened by a floaty feeling FFB, are coming through and feel pretty reasonable. Not quite as communicative as AC nor as "alive" as pCARS, but solid and decent.

The main challenge left is to figure out braking consistency. Like many others I'm having large problems modulating the brakes, especially on track+car combos where my braking points in other sims don't correspond to the right places for R3E, at least until I've got my brake modulation sorted out.

I'd love a pedal UI indicator. Does something like that exist?

 

[Msportdan]

sorry mate not all sims are doing this. When you return the wheel (rre) theres no force simple as that, its loose as anything. Any other sim, gives you force so to mimic the scrubbing of tyres returning to centre.

I also not impressed that not one dev or staff from s3 has commented on this.?

Ive played with all available settings and i cant rectify this.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

yep posted on a saturday , we are now 1 hour into the working day ....... slackers

Andi

 

[Msportdan]

did i post that saturday wow!

my days and weeks are really starting to blend now..

 

[Andi Goodwin]

try this one , it will be really wrong i think but it helps me

Andi

 

[Msportdan]

this sounds kinda stupid but i actually like the FFb in all other parts of the handling. Its just that loose feel when you return the wheel, doesnt feel natural. Im not sure and rcs file will dial that at without s3 input.

Wish i could explain it better.

 

[Le_Poilu]

This is really weird.

I don't have this returning wheel lack of force as you say.

Don't you have the setting "Steering Rack" set to anything else than 0% ?

 

[Msportdan]

i have it at 0% atm. So when you return the wheel its not loose (akin to being on ice)

dan

this video shows it (from older post)

http://tinypic.com/r/do8bqf/8