Super Touring 98 Mod

[pye man]

Why not make a fictional grid with supertourers?Perhaps a fictional nurburging 24hours pack only with supertourers.That would be great!!

Could be a thought.

I have a few I wouldn't mind converting from my original collection.

 

[pye man]

Is it possible to have the disc wheels in this mod?

 

[AndreasFSC]

There are no discs yet. I'm thinking about ways to add them, but I'm not there yet. The first beta version of this mod has been sent to beta testers.

 

[theravenousbeast]

PM me if you need one more tester

 

[AndreasFSC]

Link has been sent. The file structure is different, so the old mod has to be deleted before the new mod is installed. There are a lot of car ID's, so using a mod manager is useful. I use a separate race07 install for the ST mod.

 

[AndreasFSC]

The update might take some more time than I hoped for. There are two major problems I have to solve.
The older cars are very bouncy, and they flipp over too easily. Slight changes to the springs and harder dampers seems to be the solution (and maybe a little more antisway?) but it takes time to find the right setup.

The other problem is more difficult. I could of course lowering the center of gravity, but I think that would be unrealistic. It is between 25 and 30 now + ride height. I have no data from real ST cars, but I find it hard to believe it can be lower than that. Changing spring and damper settings seems to help a little, but I also wonder if the grip level in the tyres (replaced with edited versions of simbin s40 tyres) is too high? I haven't driven the simbin s40 a lot, but I have noticed it also flips over quite easily.

I actually haven't had much time to drive the cars, because our baby doesn't let me. So I have to depend more than usual on beta testers.

 

[pye man]

I know a guy who worked for Rouse engineering. If you could quantify what your after i could ask him.

 

[AndreasFSC]

That would be very good.
Really appreciate the help from everyone here.
Things that would be good to know approximately if he has got the time to answer:

Springrates
Damperrates
Cambers
Antirollbars
And also weight distributions

 

[pye man]

That would be very good.
Really appreciate the help from everyone here.
Things that would be good to know approximately if he has got the time to answer:

Springrates
Damperrates
Cambers
Antirollbars
And also weight distributions

No worries. I will get on it now.

He races the mondeo you see in my avatar and also built them in the day.

 

[Arne Dopudja]

That would be very good.
Really appreciate the help from everyone here.
Things that would be good to know approximately if he has got the time to answer:

Springrates
Damperrates
Cambers
Antirollbars
And also weight distributions

Spring rates and antiroll bars are not representative of RL values in the simbin engine afaik, so even putting in the real numbers will not give you the real car response. Damper rates even more so...

Camber can be set to any number, but running a large negative camber will destroy or remove the tire in RL. R07 has no "sudden tire removal" setting so you have to limit the players to a sensible number. -6 degrees seems to be the go-to value.

F-R weight distributions are probably around 53-47 for the newer cars and 56-44 for the older models. (No proof, just guessing.)

 

[pye man]

Spring rates and antiroll bars are not representative of RL values in the simbin engine afaik, so even putting in the real numbers will not give you the real car response. Damper rates even more so...

Camber can be set to any number, but running a large negative camber will destroy or remove the tire in RL. R07 has no "sudden tire removal" setting so you have to limit the players to a sensible number. -6 degrees seems to be the go-to value.

F-R weight distributions are probably around 53-47 for the newer cars and 56-44 for the older models. (No proof, just guessing.)

Had these figures from a guy who races '95 mondeo super tourer and built them back in the day.


Spring rate F 1000lbs. R 750lbs
Cambers F 3-5neg R 3-4
Weight pretty close to 60/40%
Some cars 50/50
Roll bars around 35mm Dia tube varying wall thickness torsional rate would have to check or calculate
Hope that helps

 

[theravenousbeast]

Had these figures from a guy who races '95 mondeo super tourer and built them back in the day.


Spring rate F 1000lbs. R 750lbs
Cambers F 3-5neg R 3-4
Weight pretty close to 60/40%
Some cars 50/50
Roll bars around 35mm Dia tube varying wall thickness torsional rate would have to check or calculate
Hope that helps

Mondeos IIRC were more nose heavy than the others IIRC.

 

[Nebehr]

the thing is, the same real numbers put into different games still produce different feel, which is probably attributable to the model being not sufficiently true to the real thing. one option might be to get real numbers from the car in question AND another already modeled car with supposedly correct physics (e.g. one of the out-of-the-box cars) and then make adjustments in relation to that car. all of which is just theoretical ramblings I fear since the real data is so hard to obtain...

 

[AndreasFSC]

Yes the real springrates doesn't seem to make sense in game (if I have converted it properly), that's sad. But at least I can use the weight distribution I have added some spring stiffnes and more damping, so the fwd super tourers are drivable now. But the rwd and older cars need a lot of work. The changes I made on some areas (when understanding them better) seems to have a very big impact on other areas...

 

[Arne Dopudja]

I would just guesstimate the weight distribution by looking at the cars from the side. BMW is maybe more toward 50-50 due to the driveshaft and diff, the rest more towards 60-40. Then just look at the ratios between bonnet lenght, seating position, wheelbase and how much of it goes beyond the rear axle. (Engine position is often closer to the cockpit aswell...) However if set to 55-45, that would be approximate enough I guess.

 

[AndreasFSC]

The super tourers except the bmw has got updated physics and setup now, and the older cars are on their way.(I have found some time to testdrive when our baby is sleeping). First I make a standard setup and then tweak it a little for every car. The main problem was too weak dampers. Now the cars are ok to drive, and have individial characteristics.

By the way I have noticed different spring strategies. It's hard to find real info for super tourers, and when you do it doesn't seem to fit in game anyway. The simbin s40 has the harder springs to the rear (weight distribution was almost 50/50 for the later super tourers what I've red, so thats logical for a fwd car I guess). According to the information above the older mondeo has the harder springs to the front (probably different spring strategy because of the heavier front). So I will use the monde strategy for most of the older cars. Any thoughts?

 

[SVP Skins]

The super tourers except the bmw has got updated physics and setup now, and the older cars are on their way.(I have found some time to testdrive when our baby is sleeping). First I make a standard setup and then tweak it a little for every car. The main problem was too weak dampers. Now the cars are ok to drive, and have individial characteristics.

By the way I have noticed different spring strategies. It's hard to find real info for super tourers, and when you do it doesn't seem to fit in game anyway. The simbin s40 has the harder springs to the rear (weight distribution was almost 50/50 for the later super tourers what I've red, so thats logical for a fwd car I guess). According to the information above the older mondeo has the harder springs to the front (probably different spring strategy because of the heavier front). So I will use the monde strategy for most of the older cars. Any thoughts?

Try contacting these owners on Facebook.

Jason Minshaw (Owns Rydell's 98 S40)
Dave Jarman (Owned a 98 & now owns a '00 Primera)
Patrick Watts (Owns a '98 Pug 406 ST)
Alan William Strachan (Owns a 95 Mondeo)
Richard Hawken (owns a 97 Primira)

Hopefully they can help you out.

 

[pye man]

All sounds perfectly feasible. Go with it.

One thing i noticed about driving the BMW is that it feels a little floaty compared to the fwds. Not quite as responsive to turn in.

 

[AndreasFSC]

RWD super tourers are very difficult.
I have saved them to last this time

 

[Marc Majnes]

lower the car and stiffen the springs and a little upscale on the roll bars..