Season 6 - General stuff

Valter Ostman · Mar 22, 2011

I have installed the free for Race07 owners http://www.raceroom.net/games/race-07-formula-raceroom/ expansion pack. The F1(RR1) cars are not bad. I have run a couple of laps on the Melbourne track. MMG's are faster. Or is it me that need more RR1 practise and setup help?

Nicolai Nicholson · Mar 22, 2011

Valter Ostman said:
I have installed the free for Race07 owners http://www.raceroom.net/games/race-07-formula-raceroom/ expansion pack. The F1(RR1) cars are not bad. I have run a couple of laps on the Melbourne track. MMG's are faster. Or is it me that need more RR1 practise and setup help?

Well, the MMG mod is generally too fast compared to real f1. How is it compared to that? And what kind of top speed do you reach at Melbourne?

David McCradic · Mar 22, 2011

MMG is faster for sure, although on a high speed track like Monza I've got the formula raceroom to 1:20.5 which is only 1% slower than my personal best in MMG. formula raceroom just isn't responsive to direction change like the MMG is, so I think on the twistier tracks they will lose a lot more. The downforce doesn't seem to do much in formula raceroom but change straightline speed, doesn't seem to add much extra grip, and the cars understeer a lot for me which is where I'm really losing time. This might be different for others who are car setup pros.

Valter Ostman · Mar 22, 2011

Nicolai Nicholson said:
Well, the MMG mod is generally too fast compared to real f1. How is it compared to that? And what kind of top speed do you reach at Melbourne?

I did 1.27.8 with 26L fuel. Don't know top speed, over 300 kmph anyway.

Tim McIver · Mar 23, 2011

I had a drive for 15 min or so and was very underwhelmed. I clearly didn't give it a proper chance but the car felt really spongy and bathtub like, perhaps I just need a better setup but I found it just very unpleasant. This mod has however brought us 7th gear support, it has occurred to me that maybe it could bring us the thing we desire more than anything, F1 length pit-stops. Has anyone checked whether it still takes 30 seconds to change the tires on the new cars?

Valter Ostman · Mar 23, 2011

Tim McIver said:
I had a drive for 15 min or so and was very underwhelmed. I clearly didn't give it a proper chance but the car felt really spongy and bathtub like, perhaps I just need a better setup but I found it just very unpleasant. This mod has however brought us 7th gear support, it has occurred to me that maybe it could bring us the thing we desire more than anything, F1 length pit-stops. Has anyone checked whether it still takes 30 seconds to change the tires on the new cars?

No change

Valter Ostman · Mar 23, 2011

Some stuff I found for the RR1. Thanks for sharing guys.
Race room skinpack from Ernie. http://www.racedepartment.com/downl...ula-raceroom-skinpack-original-liveries-4339/
No helmet from slider916. http://www.racedepartment.com/attac...raceroom-no-helmet-addon-raceroomnohelmet.rar

Peter Marshall · Mar 24, 2011

Valter Ostman said:
Some stuff I found for the RR1. Thanks for sharing guys.
Race room skinpack from Ernie. http://www.racedepartment.com/downl...ula-raceroom-skinpack-original-liveries-4339/
No helmet from slider916. http://www.racedepartment.com/attac...raceroom-no-helmet-addon-raceroomnohelmet.rar

Thank you Valter,
There are also many of this seasons' F1 liveries available over at NoGrip. very nice...

David McCradic · Apr 3, 2011

If it is not too much trouble, and the race director is not too busy with all the trouble we had at Melbourne, I would love to see the "Autosim Analyzer" analysis of rounds 4 and 5, it gives a story of the race you can't see by just watching the replay and reading reports alone.

David McCradic · Apr 3, 2011

David McCradic said:
If it is not too much trouble, and the race director is not too busy with all the trouble we had at Melbourne, I would love to see the "Autosim Analyzer" analysis of rounds 4 and 5, it gives a story of the race you can't see by just watching the replay and reading reports alone.

Just noticed these available.. Thanks!

http://www.prestogp.com/autosim/s6d1r4/
http://www.prestogp.com/autosim/s6d1r5/

Peter Marshall · Apr 3, 2011

David McCradic said:
Just noticed these available.. Thanks!

http://www.prestogp.com/autosim/s6d1r4/
http://www.prestogp.com/autosim/s6d1r5/

Thank you Nico. I too enjoy looking through the stats.

Valter Ostman · Apr 3, 2011

Peter Marshall said:
Thank you Nico. I too enjoy looking through the stats.

Thx +1

Wayne Reed · Apr 3, 2011

Tim McIver said:
I had a drive for 15 min or so and was very underwhelmed. I clearly didn't give it a proper chance but the car felt really spongy and bathtub like, perhaps I just need a better setup but I found it just very unpleasant. This mod has however brought us 7th gear support, it has occurred to me that maybe it could bring us the thing we desire more than anything, F1 length pit-stops. Has anyone checked whether it still takes 30 seconds to change the tires on the new cars?

I think it is that you are just to used to using MMG. I do not think RR is any thing that MMG is not MMG slide a lot RR does not yes it is more slow to turn in but you are missing a really big thing here MMG is the 07 cars RR is based on tech data for 2010 Force Indea so you cant really give them the same thing as there to many years from one to the other.

I think the only way you can all see how good or bad they are is to have a 30 lap test race using RR and go from there. But i really do think we need to move on to a new car for presto just like we did when we moved form F3000 to MMG 07

Brendan Crosby · Apr 3, 2011

I've been working on a physics update for MMG just for my personal use at the moment. So far it just allows more setup freedom which seems to make it a few tenths faster per lap and in my opinion easier to drive. If it's a popular enough idea and I get the right permissions I can probably get it more balanced with the laptimes of real F1 cars (less engine power, more drag should do it) and we will have something a bit easier to drive which I think will mean a closer field with better on track action and a higher finishing rate. I don't want to change the overall "feel" of the car (unless it's the result of a previously unavailable setup change) because I think it's the closest F1 mod available in that aspect.

Personally I think this is a much better option than switching to the RR because the physics of this mod will be subject to the needs, suggestions and criticisms of league members. I don't think there's much that will require changing (testament to how good MMG is already) so I think it's realistic to think the update will be up and running for next season. Let me know what you guys think.

David McCradic · Apr 3, 2011

Is there something wrong with MMG F1 2007?

Brendan Crosby · Apr 4, 2011

laptimes are at least 2 seconds faster than real life cars, top speeds are 300kph in high downforce configuration 330 with average downforce. It can easily exceed 5 G in corners sometimes 8 G. These aren't realistic numbers.

Past that things get a bit more subjective based mostly on personal opinion.

Tim McIver · Apr 4, 2011

I agree 100% that I need to give the RR a much better run before I pass judgement. I also agree that at some point we should move on from the MMG mod. One of the great strengths of presto has always been that our Race Director is a calm and steadying influence (as well as a nice guy). He may disagree with me of course but he has always been an advocate for slow carefully considered change. Every time we change cars or times or rules there are risks.

I should also say that I have loved the MMG mod. The work that Gunter put in to build it have certainly brought countless hours of fantastic enjoyable racing (as well as the off controversial moment). Thanks Gunter and MMG for several great seasons. I also suspect we should run one or two more on the MMG.

I think it would be very unwise to change anything until we see what Rfactor 2 has to offer. I realise we have no actual idea when it will be released, but if its not out within the next two seasons, then something serious has gone wrong. It might well be that it comes out and would all prefer to stay with simbin. Whatever happens, I dont think Presto would be well served if we switched to RR or indeed a modified MMG only to find a few months later that RF2 was all our dreams come true (or even 2 or 3 of them).

So I'm all for this discussion, but I personally think we should inspect all the cards on the table in the next few months (or even a year) then decide which option suits the Presto community best.

Tim.

David McCradic · Apr 4, 2011

Brendan Crosby said:
laptimes are at least 2 seconds faster than real life cars, top speeds are 300kph in high downforce configuration 330 with average downforce. It can easily exceed 5 G in corners sometimes 8 G. These aren't realistic numbers.

Past that things get a bit more subjective based mostly on personal opinion.

These don't affect competition, and I could argue that these "imperfections" only guarantee we're using the highest level car available on the RACE platform.

Honestly, what I believe most people consider the biggest problems are not with the mod, but with the RACE platform itself. For instance the pit lane speed is too slow, the tires are changed too slowly, repairs are made too slowly, fuel added too slowly, etc.

Reik Major · Apr 4, 2011

Hy folks!

Nice to see the discussion about Formula RR and MMG 2007. I'd like to through in my opinions about some things mentioned here.

About MMG F1 2007:
I agree with Tim and I'm very, very thankfull to have this mod. Even though it has some flaws (mentioned by David and very well know by the community) it feels great for me. In combination with the best FFB feeling provided by simbin it is the best F1 mod (game) for me. Because of the long experiences I wouldn't mind changing anything to the physics, even though it would be small changes. Finally it would cause more trouble for the newer members, who have just learned how to setup the car.

About Formula RR:
From my first tests at the new Hockenheim version I also didn't have a very good feeling, but overall the car was fine. Now, after more tests and being provided with a great setup by my brother Nico, the car feels like a blast and is so much more "driveable".

For the interested guys I attached my best lap and the setup. In addition to Nicos base setup, I made some things harder in the rear to make the car more flexible. If it's oversteering too much, just soften the rear springs a bit.

About changing the car:
Personally I can imagine a change to the Formula RR car. If rF2 isn't out after our season finish and all the Presto Members had liked to test Formula RR, maybe it's worth discussing a change. But of course I like MMG F1 2007 very much and RR needs more testing.

Now, that simbin has brought a Formula car to its sim, I'm a bit more optimistic they'll patch the pit stops. They must know that some leagues would like to use this car and they already included the 7th gear setting. So why not making stops shorter and speed limits higher for the Formula cars. I can't imagine it's such a big thing for the game developer...

all just my opinions...