RD Le Mans Series Season 6 (rFactor 2)

[Frederic Schornstein]

I have a question to most of the GTE drivers. I dont ask this to offend anyone, but understand the thinking behind the decision.

I have driven the URD cars myself and they are on the first look "easy" to drive, but they are very difficult to drive fast and setup properly, which led to very big gaps in qualy up to 4 seconds (maybe more) between the fastest and slowest GTE cars. In most races we managed to overtake several GTE cars with our GTC machine, which is slower and has more tire wear. The ISI GT cars have provided much closer racing in my experience, which is what GT racing is about.
Therefore my question is what is the basis of the decision? Is it diversity, the physics, the graphics whatever?

Would you consider running in a leauge, if there would be balanced ISI cars e.g. you could balance the GTR, Corvette and Camaro to a similar level by reducing horse power and aero on some of the cars and the last physics update was really great. That would kind of solve the diversity and physics question, but would you then still consider the URD cars and why?

I am not opposed to run the URD cars in general as I still could drive in LMP1, but from my view they spread the field a lot and I do believe with other cars the gaps would have been a lot smaller.

For example in Sebring @David Gronvalls created a setup relatively close to the default a few days before the race and I could jump in it without practice and go very fast. In the URD cars at least I needed a lot of time to get all the speed out of the car much more than in any other car in rF2.

 

[Daiman Patel]

I have a question to most of the GTE drivers. I dont ask this to offend anyone, but understand the thinking behind the decision.

I have driven the URD cars myself and they are on the first look "easy" to drive, but they are very difficult to drive fast and setup properly, which led to very big gaps in qualy up to 4 seconds (maybe more) between the fastest and slowest GTE cars. In most races we managed to overtake several GTE cars with our GTC machine, which is slower and has more tire wear. The ISI GT cars have provided much closer racing in my experience, which is what GT racing is about.
Therefore my question is what is the basis of the decision? Is it diversity, the physics, the graphics whatever?

Would you consider running in a leauge, if there would be balanced ISI cars e.g. you could balance the GTR, Corvette and Camaro to a similar level by reducing horse power and aero on some of the cars and the last physics update was really great. That would kind of solve the diversity and physics question, but would you then still consider the URD cars and why?

I am not opposed to run the URD cars in general as I still could drive in LMP1, but from my view they spread the field a lot and I do believe with other cars the gaps would have been a lot smaller.

For example in Sebring @David Gronvalls created a setup relatively close to the default a few days before the race and I could jump in it without practice and go very fast. In the URD cars at least I needed a lot of time to get all the speed out of the car much more than in any other car in rF2.

Interesting question, and in part I would have to say that I agree with the point you are making. However, I believe you also kind of answer your own question: some people like a challenge, and this is what the URD cars offer in terms of needing to invest time into creating a fast setup and practising to be able to drive quickly. They are not really "get in and go" type of cars, unless you're happy to run at the general pace. You say that you got into the ISI GT2 a few days before Sebring with effectively a stock setup and could immediately go fast; this is no discredit to you, as you are a very quick driver anyway, nor to the Corvette, which is challenging to drive in its own way (and isn't really a "get in and go" car either in my opinion - a bit of experience, patience and steady feet are still required). Both mods require a different of driving style to one another (mainly because of the difference in feel and physics), and each will suit some people but not necessarily others; for example, I feel much more comfortable in a URD car (and even more so in the Aston or Ferrari) than in the Corvette.

I personally also like diversity, and whilst having both the Corvette and Camaro would partially satisfy this desire I would still like to see even more different types - makes and models - of cars on track. It makes the grid look much more interesting and attractive, especially when broadcasting the race. But I also agree that this can have a negative effect and sometimes result in the field spreading out much more than it otherwise might; nevertheless, this could happen even if all cars are the same, especially when these cars are "unsuited" to some driving styles. Club races might be a good time to try things like this - we'll certainly give it a go, and see what happens in terms of the racing and gaps.

In the specific case of the Corvette and Camaro, I agree that the physics of GT2 car have improved vastly since the update, but I can't comment on the GT3 as I haven't yet tried it out. The Corvette is a challenge to drive for me, but in a different way to the URD cars. I have to drive the Corvette differently, not that this is a problem, and in time I would probably get used to it; whilst practising for Spa I gave it a go and it wasn't the easiest of cars to get to grips with at first, but I eventually started to get the hand of it.

Even though the URD mod requires work and dedication to go fast, it's easy for almost anyone (regardless of experience) to pick up, drive and keep on track - it's a good, fun mod which would be decent for people new to sim-racing, and ideal for guys like me who like tinkering with setups. The Corvette meanwhile might be a little bit frightening; that's not to say it isn't fun either, or a good car to start with especially if you want to jump in at the deep end, but it might discourage some people if they think that all they will be doing is going slowly, spinning and crashing into walls (this is pretty much the way I started in the Corvette when I first tried it about a year ago ). But all in all the Corvette is a pretty awesome car.

However, one problem with the ISI cars at the moment are their tyres, in particular the wet weather tyres, which seem to have been messed up pretty badly - driving in the rain sometimes feels like driving on ice, and some people have said that even the slick tyres are better in the rain.

 

[Jean-Simon Asselin]

Interesting question, and in part I would have to say that I agree with the point you are making. However, I believe you also kind of answer your own question: some people like a challenge, and this is what the URD cars offer in terms of needing to invest time into creating a fast setup and practising to be able to drive quickly. They are not really "get in and go" type of cars, unless you're happy to run at the general pace. You say that you got into the ISI GT2 a few days before Sebring with effectively a stock setup and could immediately go fast; this is no discredit to you, as you are a very quick driver anyway, nor to the Corvette, which is challenging to drive in its own way (and isn't really a "get in and go" car either in my opinion - a bit of experience, patience and steady feet are still required). Both mods require a different of driving style to one another (mainly because of the difference in feel and physics), and each will suit some people but not necessarily others; for example, I feel much more comfortable in a URD car (and even more so in the Aston or Ferrari) than in the Corvette.

I personally also like diversity, and whilst having both the Corvette and Camaro would partially satisfy this desire I would still like to see even more different types - makes and models - of cars on track. It makes the grid look much more interesting and attractive, especially when broadcasting the race. But I also agree that this can have a negative effect and sometimes result in the field spreading out much more than it otherwise might; nevertheless, this could happen even if all cars are the same, especially when these cars are "unsuited" to some driving styles. Club races might be a good time to try things like this - we'll certainly give it a go, and see what happens in terms of the racing and gaps.

In the specific case of the Corvette and Camaro, I agree that the physics of GT2 car have improved vastly since the update, but I can't comment on the GT3 as I haven't yet tried it out. The Corvette is a challenge to drive for me, but in a different way to the URD cars. I have to drive the Corvette differently, not that this is a problem, and in time I would probably get used to it; whilst practising for Spa I gave it a go and it wasn't the easiest of cars to get to grips with at first, but I eventually started to get the hand of it.

Even though the URD mod requires work and dedication to go fast, it's easy for almost anyone (regardless of experience) to pick up, drive and keep on track - it's a good, fun mod which would be decent for people new to sim-racing, and ideal for guys like me who like tinkering with setups. The Corvette meanwhile might be a little bit frightening; that's not to say it isn't fun either, or a good car to start with especially if you want to jump in at the deep end, but it might discourage some people if they think that all they will be doing is going slowly, spinning and crashing into walls (this is pretty much the way I started in the Corvette when I first tried it about a year ago ). But all in all the Corvette is a pretty awesome car.

However, one problem with the ISI cars at the moment are their tyres, in particular the wet weather tyres, which seem to have been messed up pretty badly - driving in the rain sometimes feels like driving on ice, and some people have said that even the slick tyres are better in the rain.

I can't talk for the GTe drivers, but I can say why we have been choosing the corvette instead of the URD

For us, the isi Corvette is like a wild animal, a car the you must treat with respect, be extremely careful
You can't come and drive it like a mad man for a full stint without loosing time, if you are too aggressive you will burn your tires and you are done!
If you do 2 or 3 spin in your stint it's the same thing, you are done!

Using this car for a full 6h can make you a really better driver, because to keep up, you MUST drive it well

Even when you look at the video of Frederic for is fastest qualif lap in Sebring, you can clearly see that he is NOT pushing the car, he is smooth and he is really driving it well!
I still don't understand how he managed to do that

For us, monza as been a great race despite a disconnect
Sebring was a lot better where we were on pace, consistent and we were fighting for P2 even when we started from the pit

Unfortunately, at spa we were not ready, we had a bad setup... So we were NOT on pace... And we tried to push too much... Making us not consistent and in this car, pushing too much is really not the best thing to do


So the reason for choosing it is to become better, to learn how to drive it well and to have the most realistic experience possible!

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I am on holiday and had a bit of a thought about things. Personally I prefer GT2 over GT3, but if you would adjust the Nissan GTR and Corvette to GT3 spec (Canaro) and GT3 versions of this cat exists you could throw in the Apex Modding SLS and Porsche as well, which are already GT3 cars and the ISI Megane is close to GT3 speed as well. That would provide at least 5 diffrent GT3 cars which all exist in real life.
I was thinking about doing BOP on these cars after my holiday to see, if that would be an option. Of course I wouldnt touch the tires, which has never worked in the past BOP mods I drove, but only adjust weight, power and maybe Aero. We tested weight already on the GTR and Corvette in a club race and it didnt ruin the handling.
I personally hate BOP as I prefer to have the exact same baseline as my competitors, but equalizing these 5 cars (maybe BOP 2009 and 2010 engine on the Corvette as well and provide the 2010 one without throttle blipping) there would be a free alternative to the URD cars and all the cars have unique handling aspects, which would be very nice and the physics are great (as long as BOP doesnt ruin one of the cars).

But before investing time into it, I would like to know, if people are interested in it. For me it would be perfect to have at least three ISI based GTs and the Apex Modding SLS is some hell of a car as well.

 

[Daniel Almeida]

The better question is, why even include a car that only 3 teams were driving in the end of the season? The fact that the gaps were huge in GTE has more to do with the quality of the field, not with the quality of the car.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

The better question is, why even include a car that only 3 teams were driving in the end of the season? The fact that the gaps were huge in GTE has more to do with the quality of the field, not with the quality of the car.

I dont agree 100% of course the driver quality is a part of it, but I have raced the same drivers in URD cars and ISI GTs and the ISI once provided much closer racing every single time. I do belive the gaps would have been smaller with other cars, which is nice as this is what GT racing is about.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Interesting conversation. One small thing-the APEX 911 GT3 is terrible, not drive-able, Daiman can vouch for that as we both chose it in a small club race.

What happened to the BES mod we had some good races in that one at Laguna Seca and Bathurst.

Also in the next endurance season I would love to drive the ISI Nissan GT1.
Maybe LMP1. GT1, GT2 or 3 BOP??

It would be nice to try some different concept grids with 90-120 minute Endurance club events as a test now that the weekend are more free.

 

[Daiman Patel]

Interesting conversation. One small thing-the APEX 911 GT3 is terrible, not drive-able, Daiman can vouch for that as we both chose it in a small club race.

What happened to the BES mod we had some good races in that one at Laguna Seca and Bathurst.

Also in the next endurance season I would love to drive the ISI Nissan GT1.
Maybe LMP1. GT1, GT2 or 3 BOP??

It would be nice to try some different concept grids with 90-120 minute Endurance club events as a test now that the weekend are more free.

Yup, the Apex 911 GT3 was horrendous. I'm not sure if it has improved since the update.

Regarding the BES mod and mini-endurance events with concept grids, keep your eyes peeled! More information about club events coming soon.

 

[James Maskell]

When people say things like "why include a car that only 3 teams were driving in the end of the season" all i can think about is how there is always the slower cars in multi-class racing. I see it everytime i go to the track because of the series my brother competes in. There is everything from GT3 spec cars to a few slow Mx5s(miata). No one complains because it is variety and they all understand that everyone is out there to enjoy themselves in what they enjoy driving. (as long as rules are followed).

Edit: People should be given the choice if thats what they enjoy is what i am saying. Because in my opinion that is multi-class racing.

 

[Daniel Almeida]

My point was not to exclude the class. My point was that I find it funny that Frederic wants to exclude the GTE class, the most popular class in the championship, for something he likes better.

 

[David O'Reilly]

When people say things like "why include a car that only 3 teams were driving in the end of the season" all i can think about is how there is always the slower cars in multi-class racing. I see it everytime i go to the track because of the series my brother competes in. There is everything from GT3 spec cars to a few slow Mx5s(miata). No one complains because it is variety and they all understand that everyone is out there to enjoy themselves in what they enjoy driving. (as long as rules are followed).

Edit: People should be given the choice if thats what they enjoy is what i am saying. Because in my opinion that is multi-class racing.

Very true. If we want a strong grid it has to be popular cars.
This season is a case in point. Personally I am not a fan of the URD cars (one mans meat is another mans poison) and I would have liked to see an ISI only season.
However the admins did the exact right thing and put it to a vote. The cars that people wanted the most got included. It led to a well populated grid and good racing.

IMO the ISI Corvette is more demanding to drive and I guess as one driver above pointed out, if you want the challenge its there.
If we had ISI cars I would have chosen the Nissan GT1 but was happy in the LMP1.

I guess the choice would ideally offer accessible cars to get a full grid as well as challenging ones too. I'm not saying URD isn't challenging but its easier to jump in and go. To get it going fast needs some skill. When I did my research prior to commentating on Saturday I took the 911 "Darche". Within 12 laps of setup I could get 2:21 but that was it. Couldn't go faster. The best URD guys were doing 2:18 and they had some great racing. The battle for P1 at Spa was spectacular. And yes the variety looked good on the broadcasts. However that's a tertiary priority IMO, its about the racing first and foremost After all how many V8 supercar specs are there? Until recently ..two.
I took the C6R GT2 afterwards (should have done it first) and man it was so hard by comparison. I was +4 sec.

Its my view that the ISI Gt cars have improved especially the Camaro GT3 and the Nissan GT1, the Corvette was very nice already. They provided some great racing at Sao Paulo 2 weeks ago.

In my opinion we can use the ensuing period to actively test and promote the Endurance racing and the various spec cars available with some great club racing.
Enduracers are promising to convert the Flat6 (911 GT3) to RF2 so that will be interesting too.

But once its been seen and done people will choose what they want.

 

[Daiman Patel]

When people say things like "why include a car that only 3 teams were driving in the end of the season" all i can think about is how there is always the slower cars in multi-class racing. I see it everytime i go to the track because of the series my brother competes in. There is everything from GT3 spec cars to a few slow Mx5s(miata). No one complains because it is variety and they all understand that everyone is out there to enjoy themselves in what they enjoy driving. (as long as rules are followed).

Edit: People should be given the choice if thats what they enjoy is what i am saying. Because in my opinion that is multi-class racing.

I completely agree! This is why we decided to give everyone the choice of which cars we should use by creating a poll before the season began.
The option of using the URD mod with the Lola was the most popular by quite a margin, and the GTC option was added later to appease those that weren't particularly a fan of the URD cars but still wanted to drive in the GT class.

Fingers crossed the EnduRacers Endurance Series mod is out before the next season. As David has already said, the team has already announced that they shall be releasing an rF2 version of their Flat 6 car for rF1, before developing the Endurance Series mod (source). Hopefully it looks good and drives well; the physics of the rF1 version were still lacking when I last used it about a year and a half ago, but they have released a number of other mods and updates since that have sounded promising.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

My point was not to exclude the class. My point was that I find it funny that Frederic wants to exclude the GTE class, the most popular class in the championship, for something he likes better.

I think you misunderstood me completely. I wanted to know especially from GTE drivers at the lower end what was their motivation to run P15 in GTE rather than to have more of a chance in GTC, which can have several reasons and I dont know them, so I asked for them and got a reply already. In VWEC 2013 we had three classes as well, but the numbers were more equally spread between the classes. That was the thing I wanted to know first. My second idea was to try and create a BOP, which allows us to use the ISI GT and Apex SLS in one class. In the club races we ran all ISI GTs, but then drivers 10 drivers were spread on 4 diffrent cars, which of course was sometimes not ideal as they were basically classes and every driver has its favorite among the GTs David O'Reily loves the GTR, I like the Corvette and Miroslav likes the Camaro wouldnt it be great, if we could actually race each other in these club events?
I wanted to know if drivers are interested in such a "Mod" before I invest time in it. Not even kmowing if it is at all possible to balance the cars without ruining the physics.
It is not about if we should then run it or whatever it only exists as an idea, but I think it is always nice to have options and currently for a mixed GT field we have one option and that is the URD mod and I think it would be nice to have some proper alternatives as competition is always better for the customer in this case the simracing community.

I hope I communicated my intention clearly this time.

 

[Damian Baldi]

I totally agree with David about the URD and ISI cars. I think the URD cars lack of tire feedback and that's why is to difficult to improve once you put you first clear laps. It makes the car too setup dependant. In part, I think is the same problem with the Lola-Rebellion, tires need to be improved and the car should become less aero dependant.

About the ISI cars, I think the Nissan GT1 is the best car on rf2 at the moment about handling and feedback from the tires.

May be the Group-c cars from Mak Corp should be released before next season. Are you interested? Mazda 787B and Porsche 962c

 

[David O'Reilly]

@Frederic Schornstein
I got your meaning in your first message and I think its good thinking and a good question to ask. I want to know as well what it is about the URD cars that I don't get!
It just got a bit side tracked when people maybe misconstrued it as an anti URD thing which it clearly wasn't.
@Damian Baldi
We have a similar feeling about the URD cars but not the LMP1.
In the end we got a lot of feel from the car as all three of us gradually explored setup parameters. We were even able to slide the car in slower corners.
and I'm not just saying it as my team mate created this car from scratch. Even @Stefan Woudenberg will agree that in the early stages it was very hard to get comfortable with setup in his creation.

I will invite you to try for example our Spa setup which Ill post shortly here.
pls lower front toe in from 35 to 25. Its no faster but much better for tyre wear.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzf30e5xepnssbz/lolaSPAV2++.svm?dl=0

 

[Daiman Patel]

May be the Group-c cars from Mak Corp should be released before next season. Are you interested? Mazda 787B and Porsche 962c

We've used the Mazda a few times already for club races, and I must say that I was very impressed! They were great fun, and there were quite a few fans. I think we'll almost certainly be using this car again soon, definitely in the racing club, and maybe also in a future league.

 

[Damian Baldi]

I will invite you to try for example our Spa setup which Ill post shortly here.
pls lower front toe in from 35 to 25. Its no faster but much better for tyre wear.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzf30e5xepnssbz/lolaSPAV2++.svm?dl=0

Thank you David, I will try it later at home.

My biggest concern about the Lola, is the narrow space you have to move with the setup. The car doesn't allow you to make a different strategy i.e. using less wing. I think that's because of the tire poor grip. May be with a bit more of tire grip, you could play using less wing to get less drag and better final speed as an option.

We've used the Mazda a few times already for club races, and I must say that I was very impressed! They were great fun, and there were quite a few fans. I think we'll almost certainly be using this car again soon, definitely in the racing club, and maybe also in a future league.

That Mazda without the problem at low speed will be a blast.

 

[Davy Lauwereys]

...only adjust weight, power and maybe Aero...
But before investing time into it, I would like to know, if people are interested in it.

This would be a horrible idea, imho, and i would defenatly not be interested in that...infact, i can't comprehend that you are are "complaining" about the gaps in the URD (and i don't even like the mod that much) and then suggest something, imho, as ludicrous, as balancing a GT1, GT2 and GT3 spec car by "...only adjust weight, power and maybe Aero..." There is much more to it then just those 3 parameters if you want things to equal out ( and be fair) over a 6 hour race...
I'm not saying it can't be done (because i have for 18 different GT3 cars ), i'm saying it would take to much time to do it propperly, for what you get in return... because even if you take the time and do it, all you'll have is a hodge podge looking field with 3 cars that don't look like they belong in the same class... I'm an avid sportscar fan, and i'm sure i can't be the only one here, my experience in running leagues and making mods tells me, people want to race what they see/ is beeing raced irl.
For me, it would look daft,and wouldn't provided the immersion i seek in these series, heck i'd probably argue for just 1 car per class, wich i don't like either

If anything, i was surprised to see a GT2 spec car was used for the GTC class, but i understand now this was voted so that would explain how that would be possible , and not the GT3 Camaro wich would have been a lot more logical choice imho.

Why? Well because is GT-E = GT2... GT-E was never "invented" for lack of a better word, but GT-E is simply a redesignation by ACO of the GT2 specification!
You see, back in 2010, after probably a bottle to many of Absynth, SRO was stuck in a delusion of granduer trying to make the GT1 class into some fubared F1 lookalike against the will of most teams (in reality the nail in the coffin of what was the "true" GT1 spec.!).
So wrapped up in their haze, they kinda forgot (or elected to decided that GT2 teams were of no importance no more) to organize a 2010 FIA GT2 season... i bet that sat real well with 2009 champions, Pro Speed Competition (wich is factory supported, and was basicly to Porsche, as Manthey is now to Porsche in WEC) and regulars, the likes of AF Corse and CRS racing, etc.
While true, that in the 2009 season, the GT1 field wasn't that big really, the decision by SRO that their new fangled GT1 series couldn't possible run with cars that were already about, and that they had to have their "own" GT1 spec, less horsies and more aero, made it so that a team couldn't run their GT1s in both the Le Mans Series AND the new FIA GT1 in an effort to cut costs (wich supposedly was the whole idea befind the 2010 FIA Gt1 regulations...lol, yea right!). Marc VDS refitted their Ford GT to ACO GT1 spec once for the Spa 6hours in 2011, where it ran as the only entrant in GT1 (or possible the Larbre was their aswell, can't remmber).
The Corvettes where respecced to FIA GT1 Spec, vitaphone said ef it, and put their MC12s in their finalresting places, and the Ford GT and Nissan GT-R were designed from the ground up to FIA GT1.
This left ACO with an issue, as Larbre said sure, we'll win GT1 at Le Mans this year, as a single entrant in the class, with the last Saleen GT1 still beeing raced.
With the GT2 teams left out in the cold by SRO, they had meanwhile flocked to ACOs LMS series in 2010.
So by the end of 2010 there was ACO, GT1 spec had become a farce, and GT2 was exploding... so for 2011 they badly needed to retain and please their customers, the majority by now, GT2 teams...how do you do that? by making GT2, the bulk of your customers, the top class in GT !
However, with the events of 2010, and the fact that the GT2 was also intrinsicly linked with the FIA GT format of GT1/GT2 multiclasse racing, i imagine ACO thought it would be alot better if their new GT class wasn't linked in anyway to SRO, especially as by the end of the 2010 the SRO GT1 dream was already beginning to shatter...
Since ACO was the only one running a GT2 class and SRO didn't have any plans with it (like anyone would have come even if they had ) the cheapest, most cost effective way for ACO and the teams involved was basicly redesignate the GT2 spec to GT-E and bobs yer uncle

a very long an round about way of saying, i was not surprised at all to see the GTC mix it up so much among the GT-Es. I think the GT3 would have been a better choice because of the way they produce their laptimes. Top speed wise the GT3s would have been in the mix, but in the twisty bits the more aero prepared GT-Es would have had a much clearer advantage on the GTC class.

just my 0.02 cents, blimey that was long though

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

This would be a horrible idea, imho, and i would defenatly not be interested in that...infact, i can't comprehend that you are are "complaining" about the gaps in the URD (and i don't even like the mod that much) and then suggest something, imho, as ludicrous, as balancing a GT1, GT2 and GT3 spec car by "...only adjust weight, power and maybe Aero..." There is much more to it then just those 3 parameters if you want things to equal out ( and be fair) over a 6 hour race...
I'm not saying it can't be done (because i have for 18 different GT3 cars ), i'm saying it would take to much time to do it propperly, for what you get in return... because even if you take the time and do it, all you'll have is a hodge podge looking field with 3 cars that don't look like they belong in the same class... I'm an avid sportscar fan, and i'm sure i can't be the only one here, my experience in running leagues and making mods tells me, people want to race what they see/ is beeing raced irl.
For me, it would look daft,and wouldn't provided the immersion i seek in these series, heck i'd probably argue for just 1 car per class, wich i don't like either

If anything, i was surprised to see a GT2 spec car was used for the GTC class, but i understand now this was voted so that would explain how that would be possible , and not the GT3 Camaro wich would have been a lot more logical choice imho.

Why? Well because is GT-E = GT2... GT-E was never "invented" for lack of a better word, but GT-E is simply a redesignation by ACO of the GT2 specification!
You see, back in 2010, after probably a bottle to many of Absynth, SRO was stuck in a delusion of granduer trying to make the GT1 class into some fubared F1 lookalike against the will of most teams (in reality the nail in the coffin of what was the "true" GT1 spec.!).
So wrapped up in their haze, they kinda forgot (or elected to decided that GT2 teams were of no importance no more) to organize a 2010 FIA GT2 season... i bet that sat real well with 2009 champions, Pro Speed Competition (wich is factory supported, and was basicly to Porsche, as Manthey is now to Porsche in WEC) and regulars, the likes of AF Corse and CRS racing, etc.
While true, that in the 2009 season, the GT1 field wasn't that big really, the decision by SRO that their new fangled GT1 series couldn't possible run with cars that were already about, and that they had to have their "own" GT1 spec, less horsies and more aero, made it so that a team couldn't run their GT1s in both the Le Mans Series AND the new FIA GT1 in an effort to cut costs (wich supposedly was the whole idea befind the 2010 FIA Gt1 regulations...lol, yea right!). Marc VDS refitted their Ford GT to ACO GT1 spec once for the Spa 6hours in 2011, where it ran as the only entrant in GT1 (or possible the Larbre was their aswell, can't remmber).
The Corvettes where respecced to FIA GT1 Spec, vitaphone said ef it, and put their MC12s in their finalresting places, and the Ford GT and Nissan GT-R were designed from the ground up to FIA GT1.
This left ACO with an issue, as Larbre said sure, we'll win GT1 at Le Mans this year, as a single entrant in the class, with the last Saleen GT1 still beeing raced.
With the GT2 teams left out in the cold by SRO, they had meanwhile flocked to ACOs LMS series in 2010.
So by the end of 2010 there was ACO, GT1 spec had become a farce, and GT2 was exploding... so for 2011 they badly needed to retain and please their customers, the majority by now, GT2 teams...how do you do that? by making GT2, the bulk of your customers, the top class in GT !
However, with the events of 2010, and the fact that the GT2 was also intrinsicly linked with the FIA GT format of GT1/GT2 multiclasse racing, i imagine ACO thought it would be alot better if their new GT class wasn't linked in anyway to SRO, especially as by the end of the 2010 the SRO GT1 dream was already beginning to shatter...
Since ACO was the only one running a GT2 class and SRO didn't have any plans with it (like anyone would have come even if they had ) the cheapest, most cost effective way for ACO and the teams involved was basicly redesignate the GT2 spec to GT-E and bobs yer uncle

a very long an round about way of saying, i was not surprised at all to see the GTC mix it up so much among the GT-Es. I think the GT3 would have been a better choice because of the way they produce their laptimes. Top speed wise the GT3s would have been in the mix, but in the twisty bits the more aero prepared GT-Es would have had a much clearer advantage on the GTC class.

just my 0.02 cents, blimey that was long though

That is why I was thinking about making them GT3 spec as the Nissan GTR GT3 spec and a Chevrolet Corvette GT3 spec exist in real life and they dont look that much diffrent. Making them all GT2 spec would be weird I agree.
Regarding the physics I have no idea if it is possible, but based on our weight experiment I am pretty confident it is. I will test it sometime in 2015

 

[Pär Öqvist]

My 2 cents.

I have run ISI a lot and really tried hard to be fast with the URD AM mod. Yes I agree it´s harder to be fast with the URD AM mod. I don´t really feel any feedback on them so it´s a bit like going blind as it´s so hard to feel when I loose grip. But I think I am finally starting to brake the code and I am faster with it then the GTC. A lot of it is of course I spent some years with ISI physics and now have to start over pretty much from scratch with the URD AM Mod which has more in common with AC in term of low level grip etc. AC is also accused for being easy to drive but hard to be fast with just like real race cars is not brutal beasts they are not designed to be hard to drive.

Can say this about the pure arcade titles as well. If they are so easy why am I not closer to the aliens?

The difference in this league is mostly that we have one absolute alien team in Ajira racing. Where there rest of the drivers are just mortals . Heck look at Monza where GTC was quite competible thanks to the higher top speed but Ajira was just flying through anyway. I have a teammate in VEC that is just impossibly fast in the URD AM cars as well. I just can´t fathom how he so easilly do 2-3 second better lap times. In ISI cars I am certainly closer.

But I wouldn´t say overall that it´s easier to do close racing with ISI cars. If there isn´t enough rubber it´s extremely hard compared to other sims and URD mod. I feel more secure doing that with the URD AM cars because if I make a misstake I can repair it where the lack of low speed grip with the ISI physics makes it much harder to take evasive action. But yes maybe since it´s easier to feel lost grip with ISI physics it give us with less car feel a bigger chance to compensate???