Lewis Hamilton Silences Critics

[Daniel Ciglar]

Matters to you i can see.

If Alonso had 25 titles i could care less about. I don´t judge drivers based on how many great cars they are fortunate to drive during their career.
This is also why i hold Senna higher then Schumacher.

And I rate Schumacher higher than Senna because he switched to a team which hasn't won a title since 17 years and helped (mind you, I said helped) turning them into a team which has dominated the sport in a way that is yet to be reproduced.

Senna on the other hand was always looking to be in the best team. But that discussion doesn't belong in here, so I'll not continue with it anymore.

/ On topic

 

[Hampus Andersson]

#1: As I've told you before, they'll stay with the current car and develop it.

Yes this everyone already knows but you are missing the point...again.

#2: I was talking about Mercedes having a poor tire management in hot conditions in the last 2 years, therefore we should wait for the next few races before we decide about their car being a dog or not. Why you try to persuade me about McLaren's tire-management being poor is beyond me, as I was talking about Mercedes. Remember China last year? Cold conditions and they had to keep the tires warm rather than keep them alive - that's when the W03 was a beast. One race later (Bahrain), in completely different conditions they were mediocre again. That's what I'm talking about, Melbourne has been pretty similar to China 2012 temperatur-wise.

I misread it for Mclaren since we were mainly discussing that team.

#3: Yes, the MP4-28 is a disappointment so far, but once again, they have the know-how to develop the car into the right direction. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the 28 is worse than the 24 just because there were talks about reverting to the old chassis. Especially, as it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to revert back to the MP4-23 style in 2009 with all the changes that took place that particular year.

That´s why i never said replaced. But scrapped.
The car is also still a dog and they should be lucky if they can turn this around, who knows, 2014 is not far so they might shift all their focus on 2014 if they don´t solve this problem quickly.
Then you have a driver like Button who "mysteriously" gets off pace mid-season when the car is good for poles.

#4: I'm 21.

So maybe it´s best to zip it regarding age then.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

And I rate Schumacher higher than Senna because he switched to a team which hasn't won a title since 17 years and helped (mind you, I said helped) turning them into a team which has dominated the sport in a way that is yet to be reproduced.

And as always with Schumi fans (or Vettel fans) they never look at what really happened just that Messiah came into the team and magically great cars started to get produced.
Let´s also forget that Byrne designed all of Schumi´s title cars.

He´s also another person that never really had a strong teammate.
Maybe that is part of the sucess formula...

there´s an awful lot to suggest it is.

 

[Daniel Ciglar]

As I've said before, if there's a Senna vs Schumacher thread somewhere, we can discuss it there.

As for the McLaren being a dog, you're just ignoring the fact that it's been the first race of the season once again. I know how you feel about McLaren, I would also like Hamilton to beat both their drivers (especially Button) but I just don't close my eyes when reality is facing me. That season is far from over for McLaren, and it's way, waaaay to soon for Hamilton to act like the wise-man.. Especially after a P5-finish.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

As I've said before, if there's a Senna vs Schumacher thread somewhere, we can discuss it there.

As for the McLaren being a dog, you're just ignoring the fact that it's been the first race of the season once again. I know how you feel about McLaren,

No i´m not ignoring anything, i´m just listening to Perez, Button and Martin.

I would also like Hamilton to beat both their drivers (especially Button) but I just don't close my eyes when reality is facing me.

I could care less about that frankly. Nobody is betting any money Hamilton will do "great things" this year. The goal has always been 2014.
It does seem you are closing your eyes to the fact the mclaren is a dog at the moment.

That season is far from over for McLaren, and it's way, waaaay to soon for Hamilton to act like the wise-man.. Especially after a P5-finish.

a P5 finish was actually pretty good considering the circumstances and that you have 3 teams that are at the very top meaning they should in theory lock out the Top 6 spots.

 

[Daniel Ciglar]

No i´m not ignoring anything, i´m just listening to Perez, Button and Martin.

Congratulations.

I could care less about that frankly. Nobody is betting any money Hamilton will do "great things" this year. The goal has always been 2014.
It does seem you are closing your eyes to the fact the mclaren is a dog at the moment.

Finally, you've got it right. AT THE MOMENT. That's the crucial thing I was trying to get across for so long now. At the moment, the car is probably 5th or 6th quickest on the track. A dog of a car by McLaren standards. But that doesn't mean it will be like this for the rest of the season, and some of your previous comments were at least implying that to be the case.

a P5 finish was actually pretty good considering the circumstances and that you have 3 teams that are at the very top meaning they should in theory lock out the Top 6 spots.

It was a solid race and a good result, but that's not the point. The point is: Is this result, after 1(!) race, enough to claim all the critics being wrong? Don't you agree with me when I say it was way too early to play that card?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Finally, you've got it right. AT THE MOMENT. That's the crucial thing I was trying to get across for so long now. At the moment, the car is probably 5th or 6th quickest on the track. A dog of a car by McLaren standards. But that doesn't mean it will be like this for the rest of the season, and some of your previous comments were at least implying that to be the case.

the Mercedes is definitely not a dog by Mclaren standards. their own car is a dog by their standards.
The Mercedes is stupid quick in the rain, quick in the damp and managed to take third on the grid. There´s no dogs that can do that.
And they would have done better in the race if they did not destroy their chances with the strategy trying to do 2 stops when they have just solved the Fric system on the car.

It was a solid race and a good result, but that's not the point. The point is: Is this result, after 1(!) race, enough to claim all the critics being wrong? Don't you agree with me when I say it was way too early to play that card?

I think so definitely. He got away from another dog Mclaren has produced (which is completely unacceptable) and it´s no point running a dog only to get it fixed when it´s too late (something they do quite often)
Winning races is irrelevant for the team since everyone wants the championship at the end of the year.
Mclaren is a race winning team but it was a long time they won a championship.
Remove Hamilton´s title and it´s somewhere around 1999 they last won a title.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Last McLaren constructor world championship was in 1998 with Coulthard and Häkkinen. The latter also claimed the last world championship title in 1999 if you dont take Hamiltons WDC into account indeed.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Hamilton isn´t the first guy they have snubbed on titles either. There was a certain Finn that won the Australian GP that experienced similar things when he was there.

 

[Tony Holder]

My dog runs well in the dry and wet.....

 

[Daniel Ciglar]

the Mercedes is definitely not a dog by Mclaren standards. their own car is a dog by their standards.
The Mercedes is stupid quick in the rain, quick in the damp and managed to take third on the grid. There´s no dogs that can do that.
And they would have done better in the race if they did not destroy their chances with the strategy trying to do 2 stops when they have just solved the Fric system on the car.

All we know is that the Mercedes was quick in wet conditions in Australia, and quick in the damp. Now, how many damp/wet races do we usually have per season? 5? Most of the time even less than that.

I think so definitely. He got away from another dog Mclaren has produced (which is completely unacceptable) and it´s no point running a dog only to get it fixed when it´s too late (something they do quite often)
Winning races is irrelevant for the team since everyone wants the championship at the end of the year.
Mclaren is a race winning team but it was a long time they won a championship.
Remove Hamilton´s title and it´s somewhere around 1999 they last won a title.

And Mercedes unfortunately have a history of producing solid cars for the start of the season, only to completely lose out to the other teams in the development progress. Doesn't really sound much better, does it?

I just think that as a Hamilton-fan you should be glad about his car (probably) not being a dog this year, and nothing more. Let's not get orgasms over that 5th place and claim all critics wrong and the move a brilliant one until we've seen a couple of races and until this car has proven itself to be a good one in all conditions and on all types of circuits.

 

[Tony Holder]

I wonder what thoughts will be at the end of this season.....

 

[Hampus Andersson]

All we know is that the Mercedes was quick in wet conditions in Australia, and quick in the damp. Now, how many damp/wet races do we usually have per season? 5? Most of the time even less than that.

That goes for every team.

What we know for sure is that Mclaren has built a dog so bad that they contemplated running last years car.

And Mercedes unfortunately have a history of producing solid cars for the start of the season, only to completely lose out to the other teams in the development progress. Doesn't really sound much better, does it?

Considering the budget they had after BrawnGP (and still do compared to the top teams) and hiring new staff, upgrading wind tunnel etc i´d say they are doing a very good job.

If you look at Mercedes GP´s history and Red Bull´s history they are at the moment doing a better job.

Red Bull won their first race in their 5th year as a full team.
Mercedes won their first race in their 3rd year and took two pole positions as well.

Red Bull came 7th in their 4th year and their best result was a 3rd place.
I´d say the chances of Mercedes beating that is pretty large this year.

I just think that as a Hamilton-fan you should be glad about his car (probably) not being a dog this year, and nothing more. Let's not get orgasms over that 5th place and claim all critics wrong and the move a brilliant one until we've seen a couple of races and until this car has proven itself to be a good one in all conditions and on all types of circuits.

You do your thing, i do my thing.

Had he stayed everyone would have said "well he really should have made the switch to Mercedes".

 

[Tony Holder]

What we know for sure is that Mclaren has built a dog so bad that they contemplated running last years car.

How true is this, has the media blown this out of proportion?? They just have to understand the car, it is a prototype what will be developed over the season.

What happens will happen.... race on!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

And then all of a sudden Jenson Button wins the Malaysian GP. That would be fun

 

[Daniel Ciglar]

That goes for every team.

What we know for sure is that Mclaren has built a dog so bad that they contemplated running last years car.

By now, I think I've realized that McLaren is a dog of a car for you. Thanks for repeating it 35 times.

Considering the budget they had after BrawnGP (and still do compared to the top teams) and hiring new staff, upgrading wind tunnel etc i´d say they are doing a very good job.

Considering that Lotus (or Genii-Capital as I prefer to call them) have an even lower budget than Mercedes, their job isn't looking that good anymore.

Red Bull won their first race in their 5th year as a full team.
Mercedes won their first race in their 3rd year and took two pole positions as well.

Red Bull came 7th in their 4th year and their best result was a 3rd place.
I´d say the chances of Mercedes beating that is pretty large this year.

That sounds nice, but personally I would prefer Mercedes to do better than the Bulls did in their first few years, especially with Hamilton as their driver.

Had he stayed everyone would have said "well he really should have made the switch to Mercedes".

I can only say it again: Let's wait for the season to continue, before we make any assumptions.

Especially with Hamilton, predictions seem to be particularly difficult. Everyone expected him to dominate the sport after his first season, and who would've thought that 6 years later he'd only win just 1 title with Felipa Massa being his biggest rival that particular year.

 

[Tony Holder]

And then all of a sudden Jenson Button wins the Malaysian GP. That would be fun

Worth a bet innit!!!

 

[Hampus Andersson]

How true is this, has the media blown this out of proportion?? They just have to understand the car, it is a prototype what will be developed over the season.

No the media have not blown things out of proportion..
However the decided to stick with this years car anyways.
Martin said it was technically possible to bring back the old car.

Regarding Malaysia, it would have to be one hell of a race for Button to win that one.
You have 4 teams that are stronger then they are so that´s 8 guys making the wrong decisions for Mclaren to have any random success.

“Australia was obviously a tough weekend and, despite getting the maximum out of the car, it’s still clearly not where we want to be. There’s a lot of work to be done but we all know that this team won’t stop working until they get it right. For this weekend, I don’t think we can expect an improvement in our fortunes, but the thing about Malaysia is that it can be so unpredictable – particularly with the later start time on Sunday afternoon, which tends to see late-afternoon showers fall. We saw that last year, when Fernando won, and we know that the unpredictable weather can make it a lottery for everyone. That’s something that could play into our hands – I do enjoy driving in changeable conditions, and would love the challenge of being able to run competitively in a car that we all know is not quite capable of challenging for victories yet.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Considering that Lotus (or Genii-Capital as I prefer to call them) have an even lower budget than Mercedes, their job isn't looking that good anymore.

Again let´s just ignore the fact that they are doing a better job then what Red Bull did in the same time period (with a way bigger budget and a way better car designer)

That sounds nice, but personally I would prefer Mercedes to do better than the Bulls did in their first few years, especially with Hamilton as their driver.

They already have... pay attention....

Everyone expected him to dominate the sport after his first season, and who would've thought that 6 years later he'd only win just 1 title with Felipa Massa being his biggest rival that particular year.

That´s modern Formula 1 for you.

80% car 20% driver.

 

[Tony Holder]

No the media have not blown things out of proportion..
However the decided to stick with this years car anyways.
Martin said it was technically possible to bring back the old car.

Regarding Malaysia, it would have to be one hell of a race for Button to win that one.
You have 4 teams that are stronger then they are so that´s 8 guys making the wrong decisions for Mclaren to have any random success.

I just never stop believing in McLaren....