GTR 3

[David Ignjatovic]

Picking XMR as an example:

Years ago I read that Chardon "preview" or "review" on GTR Evo,

XMR......me, I'm more of a plug and play type of dude, so I don't find that game so appealing, but for sure, it has better physics than pcars.
Gtr Evo is the one game that reminds me of driving real world cars, and whilst it's clearly more difficult than arcade racers to drive, the difficulty isn't past or well past the point of reality, plus when you factor in the "quality" of the FFB, it allows you to go progressively faster simply by feel, as do the very best sims.....I can't say the same for some other sims which demand track knowledge just to drive at a reasonable rate.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I am not the first to say so but SIMBIN's physics model calibration (the figures used in the physics files) are/were not good enough..

The problem I have is this.....if you've got rf2, take the F3.5 to Mills Metro, and plummet down that long back straight at 260k into the left hander, then into very tight left......during this section of track at that speed, the approach and FFB load, the the way the car kicks down the gears all seems very convincing, it's the F35 at it's best imo......however, how do I know that it's more realistic than GSC's 88 mac into the first corner at Interlagos from 300k?....cause both cars feel great as far as wheel load and wheel feedback representing both what the chassis is doing and the brakes+downshifts.

In both of these examples, it's somewhat meaningless to me what any numbers say, as on both occasions the cars feel so alive....do you know what I'm getting at...?
A simcade game can't deliver that experience as it lacks the quality of FFB and probably the steering precision, but the difference between 2 good sims isn't significant.....also, I don't like extremely heavy FFB{which rf2 has], so I turn it down, as such, all that's left for me is more detail, but they seem very convincing when you're moving at that speed, have to suddenly brake, downshift and focus on the corner.

If we used an objective numerical measure and applied it to rf2/GSC/Evo etc, and let's say rf2 came out at 89/100.....if you or anyone produced a model that scores 93/100, how would I experience this extra physics?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

It's in what can be done with it afterwards and with proper data. This, yes, is nothing but stunning.

Put this game on Steam...!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Stay on topic please: GTR3

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I start from the physical constraints of the models, the physical boundaries of its behaviour, the physical traits, and from that I proceed to feel and experience.
t.

I'm just asking how that will translate into feel, for example, F3000 into 1st cnr Brno seems to have so much feedback going on, I wonder what more can be done other than maybe more convincing sound.
I'm not anti anymore progress on physics, but I wouldn't mind stuff like smoke effects, weather effects, sound etc catching up.

 

[Andreas Biester]

Good question. Maybe the answer is not a simple one. FFB will evolve with time too - better APIs, better hardware. Maybe together with even better motion simulator platforms - I'm thinking about simcraft, for instance, people have spent quite a lot of money on simcraft products and they say it's awesome. In the future, maybe we will have at our disposal motion simulator platforms with a lot more degrees of freedom, more effects, etc.

The smoke effects and weather in rF2, at least from the videos I have watched, are delightful.

If GTR3 is to be as advanced as we hope it will be...if it is to be moddable, I would like to see modders turning out complex smoke effects and weather patterns. It would be a big leap forward.

Sounds? well, imagine what Duckfreak (P&G) would be capable of if he worked for a simracing dev studio.

If it's moddable then i'll buy it right away.

To me there are games i want to be Moddable(HL Series, Racing games) - and games i couldn't care less about that (Which would be Battlefield 3 and so on). Also modding has a great impact on the Industry itself i think. Not everyone has done great in school back in his day or has parents that literally have shitloads of money to pay for a private school that teaches Gamedevs/Designers/anything else there is.

Mods are a great way for people to express their creativity and get involved with what they really like - and learn what it takes to achive the skills required for making these things happen.

While i'm not really perfect when it comes to 3D Modeling i think i am Capable of realizing most of the things i could think about - wether it be Real or Fiction and all of this wouldn't have been possible if HL1 wouldn't have been moddable. It actually made me want to figure out HOW - HOW - HOW. How do i implement weapons into this - how do i even create these Weapons. How do i create rooms and complete maps.


And DLC is actually a countermeasure to modding and people wanting to achieve these skills. The industry has realized that over the last 10 years or so the quality of mods and independent games has risen to a very high standard. These mods actually show that you can achieve all the skills you actually need to create own games - without alot of money but effort and interest alone.

But as Money making industry you don't want that. You don't want people stealing your jobs - with free games at that.

However there are companys out there that actually give people the required tools to make things happens (UED, Crytek). Because they know that modders could be their future Devs.

Well just my random thoughts when i came to read this!

Overall i think GTR3 is looking great so far and that i really hope it will be moddable. And i also hope that Simbin's going to step forward to provide people with the required Tools/Plugins to make the life of a modder easier. (No offense here people but charging money to enable people MOD something plain sucks. It's not like they wouldn't understand the effort you went through creating these tools.)

 

[Randy Wagner]

It all has to do with the almighty dollar. The gaming industry has for YEARS grown and the big fish have goggled up the little fish and we are all left with whats left.

Coming from the days when we chased red dot's on the screen (and yes I still have all my Coleco and Mattel handhelds) we NEED this to happen for them to keep making money so that we can even still have a PC version and here is why.

The days are coming for set top boxes for gaming to where DLC or nothing and we will be forced to pay out the arse for our gaming fix. No more used games and still paying to use it and never owning it just like it is today.

Us old timers have pc's for a reason we got family's a mortgage college and everything else you can think of that makes the console life if it was all DLC impossible. Some might say PC gaming is expensive BUT I recently picked up and Alienware Area 51 ALX for 1299.99 to my door and they got more if anyone wants one. That buys me a pc that is game proof for 4-5 years and by the time the games catch up the 580 cards will be down to say 200-250 or so and I'll simply run SLI and I'm golden.

When EA starting charging 10.00 for an online pass for used games did it for me. It's like going to Wal-Mart and them saying you gotta pay 3.00 a head to get in even tho your gonna spend money in the damn store anyway. Ole Trip Hawkins has a history of this even back to the 3DO days and Crystal Dynamics. 699.99 for a future proof gaming platform that with the promise of the M2 chip that you could slide in an update on the spot. Does anyone remember how that turned out? Yeah he sold it to Panasonic for 250 million and went on the start EA,my point being way back when they all start with good intentions a way for us the gamer to save a few bucks but now that games make more than the movies they now squeeze every last single freakin penny from it even to the point of releasing games long b4 they are ready and making us beta testers that pay to do it.

Grid as old as it is is one fantastic game and it never sold at the stores but yet you got games like Red Neck Rampage and or the Flatout Series that cost half as much to make and produces 4 times the amount in sales so us true racers are few and the genre of the up coming game sets proves it.

But if you go across the pond to where the REAL RACE FANS LIVE your racers are god like and not good ole boys like they are in the USA so there in lies your conundrum.


Be Well

 

[Rupe Wilson]

i will on condition theres no SKIDROW etc

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I am pretty sure now we will see the ADAC GT in GTR3

 

[Philip Antonia]

I am pretty sure now we will see the ADAC GT in GTR3

IF that's the case, then they have my money already.

 

[Tim Meuris]

definitely, nicest collection of cars ever!

 

[János Ócsai]

I'm pretty sure we can tick in ADAC GT Masters. Probably the license of the championship is quite cheap compared to main FIA series.
I think the GT1 / GT3 series won't be officially licensed, only the cars and tracks. We can be sure about e.g Slovakiaring.
And I would be totally okay with this.
FIA licenses must be extremly high. For e.g this weekends license for WTCC fee for Hungaroring cost only 5000 EUR less than the F1 event.(according to Hungaroring management)

 

[Jay Ekkel]

Was visiting them when they were in zadvoort last week, and they are as noisy and as cool as any other GT series. And what a huge grid they have for their races, very nicely done!

I love t when cars make a lot of noise, one more week thenit is time for our yearly visit to the nurburgring 24hours, 24 hours of noise noie and cool cars! Shout out if you see my ugly face!

 

[Jay Ekkel]

To really make people understand what they do and what they do in combination with each other the tool tip has to be rather large though. But it is one of the hardest things to communicate/explain to the gamers.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I am sure you guys are creative enough to find a solution for that When you hover over, lets say, camber a small youtube video pops up with an animation that shows the gamer what camber settings actually do.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Was watching both GT Masters races on Motors TV today. Brilliant field indeed with some very cool cars and some famous names behind the steeringwheels.

 

[Jay Ekkel]

completely agree, I was sitting next to mr HH Frentzen during lunch, took a while to realize that though!

 

[Jay Ekkel]

or when you hover a setup setting, thetool tip show your cell number so people can ring you up for explanation!!

 

[Ho3n3r]

I am sure you guys are creative enough to find a solution for that When you hover over, lets say, camber a small youtube video pops up with an animation that shows the gamer what camber settings actually do.

Brilliant Idea - I really wish rFactor had this aswell. And Grand Prix 4 had a brief description of what everything does when you hover over the setup option - basically tooltips.

 

[Tim Meuris]

I can imagine that with a game with such deep physics it's not that easy
but it would be helpfull
thnx to rd i learned already a lot about setting up a car (at least i think i did)
but it took lots of time browsing...