Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[HugoB]

Can't say that I've really seen this cockpit but I would always advise an 80 20 rig from now on with the experience I have had with my own cockpits. Buy once, never need to change again. Just add pieces and modulate as you need. With what you are mentioning in terms of hardware, you seem to not be worried too much about cash so investing in a high quality kit form 80 20 cockpit or even a similar DIY project would be my option. For instance my (and others) soon to arrive cockpit will house the V3 no problems and also a complete cockpit mover such as a DBox system in the the future with minimal fuss.

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Thanks for your answer Anton!

The last two days I've been reading about using 80/20 for my cockpit. It makes sense now, what you guys have been saying, it really is the only way to go if you're aiming for the top equipment in the long run. I've had to add 2000 euros to my budget, but I feel it will last me longer and give more realism. It will be stiff enough for HE Ultimate pedals and an OSW small MiGE if I can't wait any longer for the Fanatec Podium series...

I've chosen to buy the Sim-Lab P1 bundle with Sparco Pro 2000. That setup is the toughest looking cockpit I've seen all over the internet! That thing is seriously STIFF! Video's show as much movement as a granite boulder gives when you push it.

My only 2 concerns are:

• Might the seat touch the side rail because of the motion from the NLMV3?

• Will there be a possibility to sink the NLMV3 all the way down to the floor or is the P1 too narrow?

I understand the GT1 is a better fit for the NLMV3? How are you going to fit the NLMV3 in your GT1? Did you order any custom parts, will you have to cut anything, or is the stock setup compatible? I understand that they sent you measurements that show it will fit, is that correct? And then how will you attach the NLMV3? I like your idea of attaching the third pole of the footplate to the shifter side rail to effectively make it a P1 style rail. Hope it works! When will you get your GT1?

I need the rail to be solid because I'll be mounting the HE Seq Shifter plus the HE Handbrake and my good ol' TH8A for the classic gate shifter cars. And also the metal mousepad from Sim Lab. This will be some serious weight altogether.

As I now see, all of this is only possible with 80/20. Thanks for pointing me that direction!

 

[Steve D]

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My only 2 concerns are:

• Might the seat touch the side rail because of the motion from the NLMV3?

• Will there be a possibility to sink the NLMV3 all the way down to the floor or is the P1 too narrow?

I have a P1 + Sparco 2000 (on seat runner and side mounts) + V3.

1. No the seat does not touch the side rail, (shifter mount), when the V3 is in motion, although I have set up the game profiles to provide short, quick movements as it's far more realistic and immersive compared to being thrown around. For info I have 60mm clearance between seat and side rail when the platform is static.

2. Not really as the P1's internal dimensions are pretty narrow. However if you are concerned about the height of the seat above the platform don't be. You can always adjust the pedal deck, i.e raise / tilt it, if needs be and even that isn't really necessary. Great thing about 8020 is that you have options! There are a couple of effective mounting solutions and I've put a pic of mine below, which suited my set up. (For more details, see post #186 above)

 

[Mr Latte]

Can I query something?

With 8020 builds why are you guys placing the unit on top and not have the unit sit lower and be sandwiched in between the parallel profile running the length of the rig.

Would this not help deliver more energy from the unit into pedal section especially with lateral movement?

 

[Steve D]

Can I query something?

With 8020 builds why are you guys placing the unit on top and not have the unit sit lower and be sandwiched in between the parallel profile running the length of the rig.

Would this not help deliver more energy from the unit into pedal section especially with lateral movement?

Where the Sim Labs P1 is concerned, (so I can only speak based on my own experience) there is only 20mm clearance each side of the motion platform when you place it inside the parallels. As a result, mounting lower than shown and securely, in my example above, was proving tricky. That's not to say that another solution isn't possible but I wanted something that also allowed for ease of adjustment and removal if needs be. Also, at best I would have gained 40mm if I had been able to drop the V3 lower as the depth of the platform beneath the mounting point has to be taken in to account to avoid it touching the floor.

To compensate for more efficient energy transfer in to the pedal deck I therefore raised that section by 40mm (by adding profile) although that's entirely down to personal taste.

 

[Mr Latte]

What you did is nice, don't get me wrong.....

Yes but 8020 does not restrict possibilities or creativity if anything, maybe even encourages it.
P1 can easily be improved with d.i.y

To me if installing the VR3 in such way may help performance, look potentially even more professional. Also, if using much higher quality and more substantial feet, these could be used to better support the rig than what some companies ship with.

Antivibration Levelling Feet
Examples Only

More
More 2
More 3

 

[Steve D]

Yes but 8020 does not restrict possibilities or creativity if anything, maybe even encourages it.
To me it would help performance, look potentially even more professional and using much higher quality and more substantial feet could be used to better support the rig than what some companies ship with.

100% agree with everything you are saying. To mount the V3 as low as possible would be the best option in terms of seating / pedal position and be the most aesthetically pleasing looks wise. And of course you could use taller, more substantial feet to raise the rig up and provide additional depth beteen platform and floor.

However, the Sim Labs 8020 profile solutions are all pre-cut and being my first 8020 build I used what was provided and worked around that. (FWIW I'm absolutely 'over the moon' with the P1) Nothing to stop me adapting further in the future, especially now I'm familiar with the flexibility and options which 8020 provides. But I've not felt the need to because everything feels good and most importantly I'm having way too much fun enjoying the actual sim-racing experience, which is what it's all about after all.

 

[Mr Latte]

No problems Steve, my suggestions we not specifically aimed at you changing what you had but for others that will, be doing 8020 builds and incorporating this motion.

If anything I applaud the way you did your own, it looks smart.

I've also seen several integrate tactile to it but not in the way Id personally go about it.

 

[Steve D]

No problems Steve, my suggestions we not specifically aimed at you changing what you had but for others that will, be doing 8020 builds and incorporating this motion.

If anything I applaud the way you did your own, it looks smart.

I've also seen several integrate tactile to it but not in the way Id personally go about it.

Never read it as that at all Mr L. I read and appreciate a lot of your other posts about tactile immersion and you are always interesting and very constructive. And asking questions and coming up with different ideas and solutions, regardless of personal preference, is best for everyone in the end.

All the best mate!

 

[Mascot]

If anyone in the UK is thinking of selling their V3, please drop me a PM.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Like Anton mentioned above, you only need short fast movements

You will know what we are talking as soon as you have tried the seat mover yourself. It not like that bigger movements produce high G-forces. If you want ultimate G-force simulation, by a used GS-4 (if you can find one) or wait for it's succesor

It als works the other way around. At one time i adjusted the profile for NoLimits 2, increasing speeds and reducing the movement distance. It felt all wrong.

Thanks guys for answers.

My reasoning for more movement in seat mover to simulate more G-Force was that with more motion, the seat would be more inclined, therefore you would experience more of your weight pushing against the seat in correct direction, thus more feeling of G-Force. But as you said, these experiences cannot be easily described, I also haven't tried VR yet so I'm looking forward to that too

I'll wait for new G-Seat, hopefully it will be available this year. I will still have to figure out whether to start with G-Seat or some kind of motion platform, but I will figure that out depending on the price of the G-Seat, its price and availibility.

In the mean time, there's still many things to do, so I will probably do more on the tactile, as I will have to save up for quite some time for motion or G-Seat.

 

[anton_Chez]

I thought about a G-Seat for a while. Apart from being extremely hard to get a hold of these days and the new one being who knows how far off, I think you're better off without one. At the end of the day if you want G-force you need to own a race car. Nothing you get as at a consumer level is going to give you that kind of raw feeling of power. What we can do, however, as sim racers, is try to fool ourselves as best we can. We also need to keep in mind that by adding TOO many components, we risk losing all the detail and immersion we try so hard to (re)create.

I am super happy with my platform as is, even on the Next Level cockpit (although I have made some modifications that improve its flaws). I am moving my rig downstairs into an extension I have build for myself and thought that this was as good a time as any to invest in a quality cockpit. It's also allowed me to add an HE shifter to my kit, and hopefully have a better mount for my handbrake which this cockpit sorely lacks. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered had I left it where it is. But I am really looking forward to the options and massive improvement of rigidity that the GT1 will provide.

Overall, chassis mode tactile (albeit a subtle setup with modest Aura bass shakers), motion with a seat mover, a good kit overall (higher end Fanatec and now HE gear), a snug fitting race seat with 4 point harness AND virtual reality, is a fantastic point to be at when weighing up immersion vs cost, form and function, and the space to house it all. I mean there are 6DOF motion units out there, turn key solutions and what not, but unless you basically convert your double garage and have $100K lying around gathering dust then you really can't ask for too much more. A D-Box setup combined with the cockpits we are discussing would be amazing, simulating a suspended chassis is another class above a seat mover and then some. But again, they are like $20K for a decent 4 motor setup and that is just the actuators and power supply.

I am lucky that I have some disposable income to actually entertain the thought of upgrading to that as my sim racing journey continues. But my set up now is grouse and more than anything I thought I'd have 2 years ago when I started.

PS. @Mr. Latte, any tips on mounting my Aura's to the GT1? I have a few things in mind but need it to arrive before I can try it out. 4 shakers in chassis mode if you don't remember Also, I am going to see how far I can drop the V3 into the seat frame as you said, before I do anything that I had previously imagined. You never know until you get it all built up and physically have it in there. This thread has many options which is awesome as well!

 

[BrainsBush]

@AntoN_CheZ : looking forward to your videos of building and reviewing your rig. Great job and enjoy the fun of creating your own personalized race simulator.

 

[anton_Chez]

Sh*t i'd better take some then shouldn't I! Might have to post my first YouTube video.....

See how I go! Might end up being pictures but I'll see what camera options I have for video.

 

[Mascot]

Where the Sim Labs P1 is concerned, (so I can only speak based on my own experience) there is only 20mm clearance each side of the motion platform when you place it inside the parallels. As a result, mounting lower than shown and securely, in my example above, was proving tricky. That's not to say that another solution isn't possible but I wanted something that also allowed for ease of adjustment and removal if needs be. Also, at best I would have gained 40mm if I had been able to drop the V3 lower as the depth of the platform beneath the mounting point has to be taken in to account to avoid it touching the floor.

To compensate for more efficient energy transfer in to the pedal deck I therefore raised that section by 40mm (by adding profile) although that's entirely down to personal taste.

But could you mount the V3 at floor level (or, level with the bottom of the P1 side rails if the P1 is raised up slightly on feet), ie., is there clearance within the depth of the P1's side rails for the seat to move in its full range if the V3 is mounted as low as possible?

Edit: in fact, what's to stop you just resting the V3 on the floor within the P1's 'seating area' and securing it against movement creep by placing (for example) rubber spacers between the platform and the inside of the P1's side rails to keep it in place? The short back section of the P1 could easily be removed for access, couldn't it? This way the weight of the V3/seat/user is all resting on the floor.
Would this be possible? Does the unit have to be 'suspended'?
Basic dims are below:

 

[Mr Latte]

@AntoN_CheZ for tactile we need to look at how or what is the best way to isolate the seat from the platform but such not affect the height that much.

If someone was serious in doing a "pro installation" then what the aim should be is to determine what isolators or vibration and sound deadening materials could be combined together to best effect yet with minimal height being applied. Plenty on the market to test but it amazes me so many 8020 users seem to ignore these materials for their tactile isolation or vibration control. Group or joint tests with tactile on 8020 sections is all that is need by members in the community to discover what does or does not work so well.

As this is a moving platform then the isolators used need to be firm and sustain the weight of the seat and the user too. Many available will be too soft.

Some people have attached 8020 to the "H" platform of the VR3 and then the seat with tactile connected to this. What the user wants to do is prevent as best possible the energy from the tactile go into the VR3 "H" section and via its universal bolt into the main casing/electronics.

In truth it needs more thought and closer inspection.

 

[anton_Chez]

I wouldn't want it resting on the floor. It probably wouldn't hurt it being there but you want it completely secure while it's moving. The need for it to be low is not as important as the need for it to be secure. Depending on your rig it may not be a problem at all, as the pedal deck is more than likely the sticking point when settling on the height of the motion platform. More adjustment in pedals = less necessity to get the platform super low. Your wheel deck should have more movement than pedals so that shouldn't be an issue either.

 

[anton_Chez]

@Mr Latte That's actually how I have my shakers mounted now. I have mounted them to a thin steel (I think) sheet and then I have secured that (the part of the sheet with no shakers) in between the top plate of the motion platform and the bottom of the seat. It seems to work pretty well, I can feel it pretty good. As you know they are not super powerful, probably the lowest shaker power wise you'd want to use for our purpose, so I don't think they are going to rattle the teeth out of the V3. I did it this was mainly because I had it this way with the first cockpit I had, and I had it that way on that because of limited mounting locations on the actual chassis. This is not a problem with 80 20 obviously.

Just wondering if I am going to lose a lot of feeling if I go from having them sort of underneath my ass (not directly, more hanging off out the back) to having them on the corners of the cockpit. The other option is mount them to the back of the seat but this sort of breaks the chassis mode immersion having them firing on my back. Side note, my chassis comes with plastic feet to raise (I guess isolate, too) it off of the floor. I was considering swapping them out for rubber but as I will be placing everything on a rug, it's probably not going to make too much of a difference.

I guess the only way to know is to test it. I have some solid L brackets that I may use to mount them, sort of like the way the SimXperience brackets work for the LFE Buttkickers on their chassis. I am kind of hoping they work well just mounted flat to the profile. Mount the sheet metal to the 80mm profile (flat), then mount the shakers to the sheet.

Just more rambling here at this point. As you say, we need to test.

 

[Mascot]

I wouldn't want it resting on the floor. It probably wouldn't hurt it being there but you want it completely secure while it's moving. The need for it to be low is not as important as the need for it to be secure. Depending on your rig it may not be a problem at all, as the pedal deck is more than likely the sticking point when settling on the height of the motion platform. More adjustment in pedals = less necessity to get the platform super low. Your wheel deck should have more movement than pedals so that shouldn't be an issue either.

Yeah, I found an image of the underside of the unit and there are a couple of fans mounted there, so ground-mounting definitely isn't an option.

I *think* with the back rail of the Sim Lab P1 temporarily removed then fitting the V3 between the side rails should be relatively straightforward. Short lengths of M8 studding could be wound into the V3 fixing points with a washer/locknut/channel nut on them. Feed these fixings into the channels as you slide the V3 in from the back of the cockpit (two-man job, no doubt) then nip up the lock nuts to secure in place. This way you can *maybe* seat the V3 in the second channel down in the P1 side rails, depending on ground clearance (or lower if the P1 is raised up on feet).

Damn. My P1 is on the way. So close to pushing the button on a V3.....

 

[anton_Chez]

Haha, yeah I bought mine on a whim as well. I was mulling over it for a while and thought it was too much money to justify spending. But something just made me do it and pretty much with everything I have bought in sim racing gear I haven't regretted it at all.

Did you receive shipping notice for your P1? I am waiting for my GT1 to be sent out, it's been around 2 weeks since I paid for it. How long did your order take to process?

 

[Mascot]

Haha, yeah I bought mine on a whim as well. I was mulling over it for a while and thought it was too much money to justify spending. But something just made me do it and pretty much with everything I have bought in sim racing gear I haven't regretted it at all.

Did you receive shipping notice for your P1? I am waiting for my GT1 to be sent out, it's been around 2 weeks since I paid for it. How long did your order take to process?

I ordered last Thursday and was told it would ship in a week to ten days. I notice they have stopped taking orders until 23rd April now to clear a backlog, so I hope mine isn't delayed..!
Might drop them a note.