Assetto Corsa: Steam Pre-Order Price 40-45 Euro

[OverTake.gg]

Bram Hengeveld submitted a new blog post:

Assetto Corsa: Steam Pre-Order Price 40-45 Euro

Marco Massarutto of Kunos Simulazioni posted this Steam screengrab to his Facebook today with a price indication for those of you considering to pre-order Assetto Corsa.

To manage the expectations a bit, no need to hurry and fire up Steam as you will not find the game listed there as this image is early work in...

Continue reading the Original Blog Post

 

[Dominik Schollmayer]

You will be hard pushed to find a UK high street shop now still selling PC games. If you want a hard copy you have to look online, amazon or play etc.

This is because if you buy a PC game you buy a license, not a Copy like you do when you buy a Console game. Therefor you/the Gameshops cant resell a game. This is a System the Developers on the PC-platform benefited greatly from.
If anyone is interested on this topic:

The thing is, €45 doesn't even get you the full game any more. 5-10 years ago that would have bought you the full game and that's it. However in today's market you will probably have another €40-100 of DLC to buy on top of the €45 initial price in order to get "the full game". No one forces you to buy the DLC of course, but then if you don't then you get "left behind" and things like online racing etc often then becomes difficult.

While i don't deny that that is a practise that occurs on todays game market, I ask again, does that really apply to Kunos? Dont you buy the full game on launch? I mean it got alot of tracks and cars, doesn't it? The fact that there will be future DLC/ADDONS doesnt make it half a game all of a sudden?
Let's imagine being in the 90s, no widespread internet, no digital destribution (story time): The small italian game developer Kunos finally found a publisher for his second game, Assetto Corsa. But because the publisher gave the small team a strict timespan to develop the game of their dreams, Kunos struggle to include all the content they originally planned. Release Day comes and they only managed to include half of the content they wanted to. Whats the possibilitys now?

1. The game is a succes and the Publisher decides to make a franchise out of the game. Kunos will be able to release a succesor to AC, called AC2 and include the content from the first game while adding on it. But guess what, if you want the new content, you will pay twice for the old one.

2. The game is a succes and the Publisher decides to allow Kunos to develop ADDONs for AC, so the missing content can be added. But guess what, you will pay the Publisher twice for publishing the main game AND the addon (remember, no internet and digital destribution).

3. The game flops, "We want to publish your Game" said no Publisher ever again.

We should be thankful that things like DLC (if done right, and for now there is nothing that makes me doubt kunos) exsist, really.

 

[Chronus]

Most realistic physics to date (Netkar Pro, FVA, P&Gv3, and Tech Preview shows this)

"Most realistic physics to date [...] P&Gv3 [...] shows this"?

Though Aris was part of the P&G workshop for a long while, Kunos Simulazioni had nothing to do with P&Gv3 (GTr2, SIMBIN, ISIMotor2).

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Lets see: Aris did most of the physics for P&G and because of this he gained the trust of Stefano to do the physics for AC...he has said that if you liked P&G physics you will love AC.

 

[Kenny Paton]

I think we must accept that new ways of selling games and new business models are now part of the race sim genre. As are digital methods of delivery. The question of use of Steam is a personal one for individuals to make up their own minds. Lee Knights story is a horrible one and would put any one it happened to off Steam for life. The fact remains, that it offers for the vast majority of users an easy and trouble free way to own and play their games. As to the pricing structure, I paid about £40 for Forza 3 when it came out in 2009, then ended up buying almost all the DLC car packs. I enjoyed it but it haven't driven it in nearly 3 years. I didn't buy Forza 4. I bought GTR 2 in 2006 at full price and drive it nearly every day. Would I have paid for DLC for it, if Simbin had went down that road. You bet. I also bought the complete Race 07 series on Steam and love that as well. I'm not wealthy and don't have money to throw away, but this is one of my hobbies so I don't regard £40 - 45 as being expensive for something that could last me a very long time. My son pays more than that for 1 football match or a days golf. I would buy DLC if it is of similar quality to the original game. I would not expect to have to pay a premium for hd graphics.
People don't like change, the video gaming industry is going through some at the moment, what was regarded as novel will become the norm a few years down the line.
We as a group are also spoiled by the wonderful efforts of the many modders who give their time and talents freely.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I'm sorry, but Assetto Corsa an AAA Title?

I'm hoping it'll be a AAA physics title, that's what I mean when I used AAA.

 

[Chronus]

Lets see: Aris did most of the physics for P&G and because of this he gained the trust of Stefano to do the physics for AC...he has said that if you liked P&G physics you will love AC.

Aris was part of the initial team of NetKar Pro, sir.

Anyway, the physics of P&G prove nothing about NKP or AC, regardless of the great work Aris did with GTR2's physics engine.

I think we must accept that new ways of selling games and new business models are now part of the race sim genre. As are digital methods of delivery. The question of use of Steam is a personal one for individuals to make up their own minds. Lee Knights story is a horrible one and would put any one it happened to off Steam for life.

Quite right. It is a matter of perspective, principle and personal experience. Steam, on paper, seems like the obvious choice for the distribution of digital content, and probably makes a lot of sense for developers when it comes to spreading updates and selling DLC.

However, even if the majority haven't experienced much problems with Steam, as we know there are many that cannot say the same. Why some here try to write off those bad experiences as minor incidents or a matter of ignorance is both foolish and unrealistic.

Hopefully, Kunos will provide some other means to install/have AC for those that run into trouble. At the very least, a good customer support demands that.

As to the pricing structure, I paid about £40 for Forza 3 when it came out in 2009, then ended up buying almost all the DLC car packs. I enjoyed it but it haven't driven it in nearly 3 years. I didn't buy Forza 4. I bought GTR 2 in 2006 at full price and drive it nearly every day. Would I have paid for DLC for it, if Simbin had went down that road. You bet. I also bought the complete Race 07 series on Steam and love that as well. I'm not wealthy and don't have money to throw away, but this is one of my hobbies so I don't regard £40 - 45 as being expensive for something that could last me a very long time.

Price, for some of those who will not buy AC due to Steam, is certainly not a consideration. NKP was one of the cheapest purchases I did, as were most of the Race07 related content. Considering what I paid for iRacing, 50 Euros is rather cheap. But then, as current trends point to, the cost is not restricted to the initial purchase, we have to consider how much there is to pay in the long run with DLCs (for those that accept this).

Regardless, some consider 50 Euros too much. That should be ok for any adult, intelligent and balanced individual. I see no reason to mock those that will not spend 50 Euros (or whatever AC will cost) with derogatory comments about "boycotts" (who said that?) and how much they have spend on their rigs and hardware updates. Again, some people are abusing their freedom of speech.

If people want to miss out on AC due to this or that reason should be ok for the rest. Discussion of these issues should continue without the inflammatory comments and word twisting posted by some.

We as a group are also spoiled by the wonderful efforts of the many modders who give their time and talents freely.

Yes we have, and unfortunately that means absolutely nothing to some of those that have enjoyed the work of modders.

The future will tell (with AC and rF2), but there are signs that point to a cynical perspective: "modding hurts developers". You probably know what I mean, if not just go back to 2012 and revisit some threads right here and at NG.

A couple of developers have told me they have no intention to allow for any kind of modding (reasons being the usual list of fallacies). Free content, user modded content, the ability to allow the user to correct developer mistakes - all that will come to pass if the community continues to hold on to eye-candy novelties and the fear of "being left behind".

 

[Dominik Schollmayer]

I'm hoping it'll be a AAA physics title, that's what I mean when I used AAA.

Yeah I got that, I also am pretty sure that AC will have the qualities of an AAA title while not actually being one
I just felt the need to clarify because the arguments of others seemed to have build up on what you wrote.


On topic: I just want to add my thoughts about the Seperation Problems when dealing with DLC.
I think there are two possible views on that.

1. You are one of the little people that bought the (legit and HQ) DLC. Well lucky you, that you are on RaceDepartment to organize yourself with other players.

2. You are one of the little people that cant afford the DLC. Well sucks for you. As hard as it sounds, but there is no right to consume. Lern to live without it or try to change it. This is business not charity.

 

[GamerMuscle]

So now Kunos should make two versions of a track, low res and high res, and only charge for the high res....wow

No they make one version and have the texture resolution option set to low in pay for DLC for users that dont buy the DLC.

Here's a thought; If $60 is too much for you to pay for a game and upgrading your pc every two or three years is out of the question and the very notion of DLC makes your blood boil then you might want to look for a cheaper hobby. (or continue playing gtr2 or race07)

Again almost no hard core sim-racer will have a problem with the price, the point is Kunos would likely make far more net sales by selling it for less and properly exploiting steam platform ( which I would have thought they will)

This is why hard core train guys will have spent $1000+ on train simulator at launch, but almost no "normal" people would have bought it and its DLC, had it not being for the train simulator developers exploiting the aggressive steam sales.

Here is what I remember from the good ole days: A game came out complete when you bought it and costs around $30 (which is roughly the same as $60 today, damn inflation)
A year or so later the same game came out with a couple more features and a little prettier graphics for another $30. Online Multiplayer wasn't available so that is something that game devs have to create now that they didn't then...and when you could go on-line and race other people you payed long distance phone charges of around $1.50 a minute.

Obviously things have changed now games are more a service now and so you have to try and get as many users on-board in the first place and then monetise that user base through DLC
whilst also at the same time not diluting and fragmenting that user-base.

So many things in this thread that make me shake my head but I really couldn't believe the person that thinks the cost of DLC should only cover the cost of the license for the product. Ya'll understand that these are grown men making this sim that have families and such, they are not a couple of kids living with their parents and no bills to pay.

I don't think anyone made that argument , people were asserting aspects of pricing and the relevance of volume sales and the importance of keeping things accessible for all users and how that derives a higher net profit for the developer.

Do ya'll really think that if everybody boycotts Kunos (or any other dev for that matter) and they go out of business that somebody else will think "If I offer a better product for less money everybody will buy it" because what will happen is the next dev in line will actually think "if they couldn't sell then it must be a dead market" and no more sims will be coming out.

Only one or two users were talking about boycotting kunos and that was because they don't like steam regardless of pricing , they also have more of an issue with DRM or aspects of steam as a service.

7 to 10 laser scanned tracks with DX11 graphics
30+ cars including Lotus 79, Lotus 98T, Pagani, McLaren, Bmw, Ferrari, and many others
Most realistic physics to date (Netkar Pro, FVA, P&Gv3, and Tech Preview shows this)
AI
Open source ready for mods (cars, tracks, and GUI)
Career mode
Drifting, Drag racing, time trials, point to point, race weekends, and open practice game modes
Dev support for the core sim (plus DLC if you want it) for at least 5 years

Seems like a good deal to me.

Again most people talking about the pricing of the game were talking from the perspective of steam and how developers can generate more income from steam.

I think most people that are into Sim-Racing and understand what AC is about and understand how good NKP was wont think twice about paying 30-40 for it. But most people on steam don't get the fuss about driving simulators and will be confused about the name.

Non the less I will be happy to pay £30-£40 for what is likely to be the best driving simulator ever made and those that don't like the launch price will probably get it at a later date in sales.

 

[DennS]

On topic: I just want to add my thoughts about the Seperation Problems when dealing with DLC.
I think there are two possible views on that.

And to add something about that the vast majority isn't even playing online as said by various developers... The few hardcore simracers maybe but that's all...

PS.: funny thing the AC thread in the iRacing forums is going nuts too

 

[Dominik Schollmayer]

Well too bad im not a member, I suddenly feel the urge to throw myself into another mud puddle

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

off topic slightly: iRacing should have a $5 monthly membership but only for forum access. I don't miss the driving over there but the forums can be so entertaining at times

I'm sure that 6 to 12 months after AC is out it will be on sale for 50%-75% off. This is when the casuals will buy it; Kunos is looking at far more than week one sales, they have a five year plan.

How is people having or not having DLC any different than having a mod or not? I can understand frustration towards day one dlc that is already on a disk you buy for console but even then it's not like you have to buy it for the game to work.

 

[Tim Ling]

Not being funny, but this thread has become 10 pages of pointless arguments & trolling. RaceDepartment cant this thread be locked please?

 

[GamerMuscle]

How is people having or not having DLC any different than having a mod or not? I can understand frustration towards day one dlc that is already on a disk you buy for console but even then it's not like you have to buy it for the game to work.

Because given the choice most people would run a server without the DLC if it means they will not be excluding potential people from joining the server , Typically in GTRE , RF1 the most active servers are ones that ether run default content , or a very specific content set that can be accessed from one page and has a team behind it.

Also as more DLC comes out you end up with progressively fewer and fewer users that have all the DLC making it even less likely a server will run with the DLC content.

People not having a mod and it having to be downloaded from all over the internet is a massive issue as well and that is why RF2 is a mess , but at least with mods you can still just dowload them to join a server and the mess aspect can be negated with download systems which ISI have started to implement.

As someone pointed out allot of people only play single player and in that instance its not so much of an issue as you or others having or not having the DLC is not a factor , It only really damages on line play.

 

[Ben Lee]

Yeah I got that, I also am pretty sure that AC will have the qualities of an AAA title while not actually being one
I just felt the need to clarify because the arguments of others seemed to have build up on what you wrote.


On topic: I just want to add my thoughts about the Seperation Problems when dealing with DLC.
I think there are two possible views on that.

1. You are one of the little people that bought the (legit and HQ) DLC. Well lucky you, that you are on RaceDepartment to organize yourself with other players.

2. You are one of the little people that cant afford the DLC. Well sucks for you. As hard as it sounds, but there is no right to consume. Lern to live without it or try to change it. This is business not charity.

The trouble is, this affects both the "haves" and the "have nots". There are 3 issues here with DLC and "splitting up the community" as people often call it. Most of these observations are to do with online multiplayer by the way.

1. The guys who don't buy the DLC are simply forced out because the don't have it, that's their loss or "tough luck" as some people here seem to be insinuating.

2. The guys who do buy the DLC, (good for them) have the problem of not actually having enough other players who have shelled out for the DLC to actually fill up lobbies and provide a good online experience. So you have paid the €10 for the DLC1 pack or whatever, but only 500 other users have, of which only 20 are online at the moment, and 14 are in a game, 6 are idle. Split over the whole world, (which may have different lobbies anyway) and you can probably see the problem.

3. A further problem with the above issue is that of lag, and of available servers. If only a handful of people have purchased DLC1 pack, that means that your userbase is tiny. So, these players are based all over the world, at any one time, maybe a max of 1/4 of these guys will be online. That means that people from asia, europe, usa, and so on will all be trying to connect to the handful of servers running the content. I had the exact same problem with BF2. EA released "booster packs" for the game, a few maps, new guns and a few vehicles. The trouble is, no one bought it. This meant finding a playable game was almost impossible. There were hardly any servers because......... no one bought the content. Therefore the few people that actually paid for the content were trying to connect to servers all over the place, I had to try servers in the US, because no servers in the UK or Europe ran the content. When I actually connected to the game, there were players on there from Asia, Europe, basically all over and it was a total and utter lagfest. Just ridiculous, tanks flying through the air, people time warping over the map, it was just a joke.

The bottom line there really is that both playerbases lost out. The ones who bought the thing had a terrible experience (myself included) and the ones who didn't, well maybe they didn't miss out because it was such a terrible mess, but there you go, everyone lost.

 

[Dominik Schollmayer]

1. The guys who don't buy the DLC are simply forced out because the don't have it, that's their loss

Ofcorse they are forced out, If you dont buy it you wont get it, thats how it works. But they wont be alone, you will still have the base game (as everyone elso who bought it, also the DLC customers.
If you think thats wrong, what would be your solution to that?

2. The guys who do buy the DLC, (good for them) have the problem of not actually having enough other players who have shelled out for the DLC to actually fill up lobbies and provide a good online experience. So you have paid the €10 for the DLC1 pack or whatever, but only 500 other users have, of which only 20 are online at the moment, and 14 are in a game, 6 are idle. Split over the whole world, (which may have different lobbies anyway) and you can probably see the problem.

You are treating AC like your ordinary shooter here. If you are doing proper simracing, you dont just start up the game in your lunchbreak to chill or get time pass by. Simracing always involved some form of organization (be it because of mods, leagues, whatever...). I assume not that many people bought GSC yet RD managed to fill large grids.
I think this problem only applys to people who casually go online from time to time. Game experience in these kinds of races are usally bad anyway because of overly aggressive driving. Even on Games like GT5 and Forza you will find people organizing themselves when they want proper online play. We dont need to treat AC as a MMO with some sort of matchmaking structure. People can enjoy their trackday and 3lap sprints offline.

3. A further problem with the above issue is that of lag, and of available servers. If only a handful of people have purchased DLC1 pack, that means that your userbase is tiny. So, these players are based all over the world, at any one time, maybe a max of 1/4 of these guys will be online. That means that people from asia, europe, usa, and so on will all be trying to connect to the handful of servers running the content. I had the exact same problem with BF2. EA released "booster packs" for the game, a few maps, new guns and a few vehicles. The trouble is, no one bought it. This meant finding a playable game was almost impossible. There were hardly any servers because......... no one bought the content. Therefore the few people that actually paid for the content were trying to connect to servers all over the place, I had to try servers in the US, because no servers in the UK or Europe ran the content. When I actually connected to the game, there were players on there from Asia, Europe, basically all over and it was a total and utter lagfest. Just ridiculous, tanks flying through the air, people time warping over the map, it was just a joke.

How come Simracers managed to play online form all over the world until now? A Racing game is not that dependend on a good netcode as a Shooter is. BF2 had a horrible netcode btw.

Whether DLC is gonna work in online play depends on how good it is. I'd say if you are still committed to online play after the first DLC's arrive you are also committed to the game itself. And who would this guy be to skip on a track like Spa when there is no financial barrier?

 

[Mapu]

Doesn't change the core point of Sodemo's remarks that players become separated and by this the base of online racers might become smaller and smaller with each dlc or expansion.

 

[Dominik Schollmayer]

Doesn't change the core point of Sodemo's remarks that players become separated and by this the base of online racers might become smaller and smaller with each dlc or expansion.

....and that depends on how good the DLC is. The better it is, the more people buy it, the smaller the seperation. He gave his apprehension of what might happen with AC given his experience with BF2 and I tried to explain why I dont think the same will happen with AC. I didnt say there will be no seperation*, I just tried to explain why I think it wont have that much of an influence on your online experience. AC already holds his hardcore audience for DLC pruchases. I just feel like its not worth rejecting the whole DLC approach, because I dont see any alternatives to it, that's also why I asked him what his solution to the problem would be...

*Infact, this "seperation" is pretty much implacable, because the idea of every User buying every DLC is utopia.

 

[GamerMuscle]

....and that depends on how good the DLC is. The better it is, the more people buy it, the smaller the seperation. He gave his apprehension of what might happen with AC given his experience with BF2 and I tried to explain why I dont think the same will happen with AC. I didnt say there will be no seperation*, I just tried to explain why I think it wont have that much of an influence on your online experience. AC already holds his hardcore audience for DLC pruchases. I just feel like its not worth rejecting the whole DLC approach, because I dont see any alternatives to it, that's also why I asked him what his solution to the problem would be...

*Infact, this "seperation" is pretty much implacable, because the idea of every User buying every DLC is utopia.

You don't have to reject DLC that's the point , Hence why you use a system that allows people to still access DLC and interact with others whilst also still providing motivation for people to fully unlock aspects of the DLC that don't impact game play (for example higher resolution textures) , that way its win win.

If you cannot see how much of an effect this fragmentation of game play content has on services like i-racing or games like Race 07 and in the past games like bf1942 then I don't know what would convince you.

Evan outside of pay for DLC content the aspect of having separate mods and custom servers with dislocated content can massively impact the on-line experience and stop large numbers of users racing eventually causing them to move to another service.

 

[Chronus]

Dominik Schollmayer, Interesting point, there.

I'd say 3 factors may determine how many will buy into DLC offerings:
- cost
- personal preference (not everybody likes Muscle Cars, for instance, not everyone likes Prototypes, etc)
- being in a league or wanting to be in one

Fragmentation of the multiplayer base is inevitable and also natural. Devs produce content and sell it in hopes of increasing revenue and regardless of fragmenting the target audience into smaller groups. Actually, fragmentation, from the perspective of some, is desirable as this attests to the variety of content a sim can offer; and this, they hope, can hook up more people, attract more players, new players.

The one big issue I have with DLC is how some try to portray it: as PREMIUM content versus standard content or "amateurish content" (i.e., that made by modders). And this "PREMIUM content" is sold, as exemplified by some very well known examples, at an exceedingly high cost. Too high a cost will, no doubt, reduce the number of people who "might just buy it" and probably increase the number of closed simracer "niches".

Anyway, given how companies are run these days, given the difficulties development studios face, DLCs are here to stay for a while and the choice is obvious: eat it or leave it.

After my rather interesting but expensive exploration of iRacing, and with the exception of the much gratifying experience with Race07 related content, for sure in my case is just "leave it".

 

[GamerMuscle]

,
Fragmentation of the multiplayer base is inevitable and also natural.

Only if you deliver DLC in a way that's conducive to losing and segmenting a user base over time

Devs produce content and sell it in hopes of increasing revenue and regardless of fragmenting the target audience into smaller groups. Actually, fragmentation, from the perspective of some, is desirable as this attests to the variety of content a sim can offer; and this, they hope, can hook up more people, attract more players, new players.

No.. developers want as many people playing and enjoying there software as possible , they also want to make as much money from the software as possible.

Fragmenting users by offering expatiation packs/DLC that will limit server access goes against both having more people play your software and deriving the most income from your user base.

Are you an i racing member ? If you are surely you can see how under subscribed some events are largely because people don't have X track or X car ?

There is nothing wrong with DLC It just has to be delivered in a way that makes it attractive for people to buy and also allows some sort of basic access to it so that you don't segregate users from each other.

You might also be surprised by the number of additional sales that would be made though people impulse buying DLC who would have not even given it a second thought but have a good graphics card and are currently playing on X server with the track and think "sod it" ill just unlock the HD textures for a small fee , or casual users that think its only £3 to unlock some really nice custom car skins , or casual users that think "awesome if unlock all the DLC for AC during the summer sale I get a Ferrari cap for TF2 that I can then trade on steam market"