Why no Formula 1 in RACE On?

[Rob Casey]

Why didn't they include formula 1 in Race On? Why have masters and not F1?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

They dislike it for the same reason as me I guess, as a gamer I don't like those cars.. But that is exactly why this whole realism thing in the simracing community is such bollocks.

When something is proven to be close to reality most gamers don't like it and start complaining that the physics bla bla bla 99,99% of the gamers never drove a race car in real life and have no clue what they are talking about. :thumb:

 

[Ryan Callan]

There is a misconception among gamers - that hard = realistic.

Utter crap - I'm sorry but RACE TCC is more realistic than GTR2 GT cars - the racing drivers who have driven both have all agreed on that.

Just because they are easy does NOT mean they are unrealistic - I hate that view.

And those looking for 'real' simulation. Go put yourself in a sauna with a g-force simulator and in situations where one mistake can cost your life, serious injury and/or a lot of money.

 

[Eric. K]

I could not agree anymore it is funny to me when any of us comments on how a car X is realistic or not... specially F1s or some exotic cars that we will NEVER drive in our lifetimes... and even if we do it will not be on a race track!!

 

[J-F Chardon]

You might want to (re)read the article I had written a long time ago and submitted on Virtualr.net (especially the second half, with Pierre Yves Corthals talking about Race'07 realism:

http://www.virtualr.net/simbin-isi-and-the-state-of-sim-racing/

 

[Ryan Callan]

And just to back up my point I quote from J-F's article, Pierre:

It goes without saying that the evolution between GTR1 and Race07 is extraordinary because at last, we can feel something when driving. And moreover, there is grip, which GTR1 lacked a lot! But it’s not perfect yet and quite far from it, actually. There’s still a huge difference between the real grip and the one we have in Race07, but all in all, it is much better now, even if a real WTCC car will be much more bonded to the road. For instance, it’s quite surprising to see how easy it is to block the wheels when braking. Normally, you almost never do, even when you brake a bit late. It happens quite often in the game, in my opinion.
Apart from that, the rest of the behaviour is relatively quite accurate. The corner speeds are the same, more or less, as well as the way you enter a corner: where you just release the right pedal without braking, you can do the same in the game without problem. On this matter, it is quite realistic. The track models are just perfect, except maybe Porto, which is really strange in the game, but anyway, it’s an excellent work. I used approx the same gearbox settings in the game than I did in real at Macau. In fact, playing Race07 is a very good training when you have to learn a track before a race week-end!

 

[Dave Stephenson]

The key thing about all these 'sims' is that they are a form of entertainment. People do want something that takes some mastering, with little nuances they have to discover and tease out for their own gain. Immersion is much much more important than 100% real physics. I would bet almost none of us have computers that would deal with real world physics calculations in real-time and in enough degrees of movement to deliver that or anywhere close.

The human element is far more important, we like racing and at the centre of racing is always the driver, we want to feel like a racer, the highs of winning, the lows of not quite making the grade and the thrill of the chase. We want those epic races where we battle with the same driver, constantly switching places with the same driver trying to outwit one another because neither of you truly has the pace to get away. This is the human element of racing, and all this comes not from physics, or graphics, but GAMEPLAY.

Of course to carry it through physics have to real enough to give the impression of being in a race car, and to look like a race does to a spectator when we make the videos of our encounters after our races, but I feel most of the titles used here at RD fully succeed in this area in their own way. MMG F1 Succeeds in this area, more than many mods do. The majority of the SimBin cars also do.

on a side note partially related. I like eye candy as much of the next man, but too much emphasis these days is placed on it IMO in a huge range of titles and genres. Gone are the days where gameplay was king. Tetris, Pacman, Sonic, Mario, all bad to look at, all run on simple lightweight systems in comparison to today's machines but all had have simple rewarding gameplay mechanics that allowed people to enjoy and play these titles over and over and over. True this might be a rather over simplified example but it holds weight to me. I love my Spectrums and my Commadores, they all still work and they all get used. Some things never get old.

 

[J-F Chardon]

Could not agree more, Dave.

 

[Rob Casey]

You are looking for an arcade ready to play out of the box F1 game. You are right the Mak-Corp F1s (or any other F1 mod for RACE or rFactor) are not for you as they take a lot of finess and seat time to develop. We have a league race this weekend, some of the top drivers spend long hours on their setups to get the car right as the default is just "ok".

You

I could not agree anymore it is funny to me when any of us comments on how a car X is realistic or not... specially F1s or some exotic cars that we will NEVER drive in our lifetimes... and even if we do it will not be on a race track!!

I love how you just start assuming that I need an arcade racers because I don't like the F1 mod physics. No I have never driven an F1 car, neither have any of you so that argument is irrelevant. You have no more right to say the mod is spot on then I have to say it isn't. However as far as comparing it to the physics of the rest of the simulator (and you will notice I always say sim not game as I am not interested in an arcade racing game) it feels inconsistent. Not to mention I live in the real physical world and driver real cars. There are characteristics of the real physical world that apply to everything from apples falling off tried to F1 cars to fighters jets and aircraft carriers. I personally feel the F1 physics and driving characteristics seem a little off from real world physics which the rest of the stock content cars seem to adhere to more accurately. I own many racing "sims" just because I have a problem with this one mod doesn't make me an arcade driver. I feel like you are trying to take a jab at me and getting heated up in defensiveness which I feel is totally unwarranted. I mean if I had just said "This mod sux!!!!!" I could see some disdain but I on the other hand was just trying to add my 2 cents in a mature manner which it might start to seem like some people can't handle.

Perhaps it is what seems like the fact that my controller settings which work fine for me once set no matter which car I am using, don't seem to work fine with this mod. It would appear I have to adjust my wheel setting only for this mod which would also add to the inconsistent feel. I have not adjusted my controller setting as of yet but really shouldn't have to simply for one vehicle. Or not I have to look into it. However this is not going to change the weird slide correction physics that don't seem right.

I know you love this mod, I'm sure it took work, but just because it is a nice good looking mod that people love does not mean it is immune to critiquing. If you wanna just say "Oh love it!" fine and dandy, but don't jump all over me when examine it unbiasedly.

You made a comment about the f3000 unrealistic characteristics which this other guy seems not to agree with and is stating that pro drivers have commended it as very accurate. It would be interesting to see what an F1 driver thinks of the mods physics. Me personally I feel a level of inconsistency from the real world physics the stock sim is trying to replicate. The mod wasn't made by the same team and I can feel that difference. No need to get all up in arms over nothing.

Yes you love the mod, yes it is appreciated, I know you all want to hear that, and it is not being said sarcastically. I will have to play with it more to try and get it where I like it. But the car setup is not the problem, as I said before it seems like real world earth bound physics as modeled with the stock sim don't apply equally to the F1 mod. It's like your driving the car on Mars or something.

 

[Rob Casey]

Ok, well after a second look, I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong and this mod really is pretty freaking awesome. I guess the fact that I started out with it in manual transmission may have given me the wrong impression. I tried it out again, this time with auto trans and I was really able to get a feel for the car. Then after knowing more of the nuances of the of the vehicle I was able to switch back to manual having a better sent of acceleration, traction, and shift points. Oh and having my head tracker on this time also helped a lot. Now I can say I really do love it. But still think anyone messing with it for the first time should practice a few laps with auto trans or the car is too hard to get a feel for right out the box. Nice job.

 

[Freddie Besems]

most interesting discussion.


The only thing i want to mention is that the F1 mmg mod and F3000 cars and RS. have very good brake feelings. After driving these cars it is hard for me to get used to the braking points of other cars.

Also i use for these cars other steering settings. mostly 180-200 degrees. other cars using 400 degrees.

driving public servers there are lots of F3000 races luckely.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

Glad you found the depth in the mod, it just keeps on giving for me

I run club races on a Thursday generally every 2 weeks if you fancy getting out on track with us. Next one will be this comming Thursday, I will be putting up the entry sheet this afternoon