What to buy? Fanatec CSW or T500RS

[Ilias Axarlis]

I'm thinking to buy CSW base with the gt2 rim and the v2 pedals, I'm actualy between this and the T500 RS, but I have found reports for bad reliability on fanatec products but there are all 1 year ago. Is there any new feedback on this? Have they fixed the problems or they are still there?

 

[MarkVenom]

Here is how I see these wheel choices after doing extensive reading over the last few weeks. I won't get into the customer service history as there are just too many variables and opinions on the matter. I'm sure I will miss a few things but, here goes:

Fanatec CSW - PROS: robust construction overall, excellent FFB feel and buttery-smooth operation, great looks / fit / finish, modular design for various purchase options, settings can be changed on the wheel itself, quick release wheel system, multiple pedal purchase options.
CONS: higher cost (about 2x T500RS when comparably configured) but, reasonable considering construction, motors may be vulnerable to overheating at high force settings(seems not be an issue anymore since FW 037), limited wheel options, limited custom wheel / modding options (with more to come soon), FFB not as strong as T500RS(strong enough for Arnie though) but, stronger than Logitech wheels.

ThrustMaster T500RS - PROS: Robust motor with strong & excellent FFB, very fast return-to-center, custom wheel options/mod-able, reasonable price for good all-around FFB wheel, offers more compatibility with consoles, comes with good pedals, FFB way stronger than Logitech wheels.
CONS: mostly plastic construction, some history of fan issues (new version may have upgraded fans?), base is a bit bulky, buttons not very robust, history of "cogging" at higher FFB settings (May also have been improved in new versions?).

Note: the bits about the possible T500RS upgrades are based on one person opening up and inspecting their new wheel. They found what appeared to be a different motor - possibly brush-less, with a bigger fan. This is a recent discovery and has yet to be confirmed but, wheel performance was reported to be smoother than older T500RS models. Again - this is one report based on one person's observations.

In the end, I chose the CSW because of the overall construction. I also feel that if the motors should eventually fail, I can replace them myself and maybe even get upgraded units. I don't require super-strong FFB anyway and I monitor the air temps coming out of the base and lower the forces if I notice them rising. For the most part, the air has been cool coming out of the base but, some cars may induce more FFB to the wheel so it is a good idea to pay attention to the temps and make minor force reductions where needed. Having 5 presets available on the wheel makes this very easy to do as well.

See my notes in red. Otherwise agree with you 100%. Also like your earlier post in which you pointed out how useless and ridiculous any comparison between a G27 and a CSW is.

 

[Tim Meuris]

That is stellar conjecture and, sorry to sound harsh, complete bullshit. Fanatec is NOT going out of business.
The second best joke of 2014 I have heard.

Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but isn't anyone curious about hearing that best joke of 2014?

 

[Tim Meuris]

He didn't say "the company was going out of business", he mearly stated he was fearful that due to Fanatec's current overwhelming warranty claims that they may lose their foothold share of the market.

Fanatec have made some big marketing blunders in my opinion, the 1st was having their products made in China, sure they manufacture at low rates, but the problem I see with that is that Fanatec can't really control the quality, they should of manufactured in Germany, but it would seem profits were the biggest concern, hence using an Asian manufacturer. Which is typical in today's money orientated world.

Another blunder is selling a product that wasn't fully tested in the field, the CSW and the CSS SQ have some major problems, which should of been ironed out before they were released, Fanatec could and would of saved themselves a lot of headaches in warranty claims if they had taken the extra time to make sure the products were at least 98% fault free, but as it stands it's seems to be about 25% of the products are faulty in some way.

When I received my CSW base and Rims the F1 rim was dead out of the box, a brand new rim totally unusable, that is very poor quality control in my opinion, can you imagine if a car maker released a new car with components that didn't work, they would be sued in a moment flat and end up going out of business.

My CSS SQ has an issue that I believe should of been sorted long before release, my Sequential return springs have failed and the shifter no longer resets itself to centre/center, this to me is unacceptable, it seems to be a design flaw and should of been eradicated before release considering the price of the product.

We consumers expect much for our money, especially when the product gets months of hype prior to release and costs a substantial amount of your hard earned income. Fanatec have already lost many prospective customers purely due to their products being faulty and problematic, you just need to read some of the hardware forums to see why, this one is no different.

Fanatec are also losing established customers, the one thing that is hurting them the most is their after sales service, and it's not the staff, it's the amount of claims they are getting from around the globe, they simply cant keep up and the consumer is getting annoyed with waiting so long for a reply or replacement. I have waited 3 to 4 weeks for a reply for info to test my FFB motors, sure it wasn't a high priority for Fanatec, but still to long to wait in my opinion.

These are just my opinions as a Fanatec product owner.

Cheers!

and do you think Fanatec has ironed out all those flaws by now or are they still present in their newly released products?

 

[Dietmar]

Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but isn't anyone curious about hearing that best joke of 2014?

On page 5 of the thread,G27 being more rigid than the CSW

 

[InsaneOzzie]

and do you think Fanatec has ironed out all those flaws by now or are they still present in their newly released products?

I would say Fanatec have fixed the CSW issues of overheating motors, and eventually they will fix the issues they are experiencing with the CSS SQ's, my problem is that most of the issues should never of occurred in the first place. The fact that they have been building sim racing gear for quite a few years gives consumers reason to think they would know how to produce a new product like the CSW range that would be relatively problem free, but as we have read in this and other threads on other forums, this is not the case, which is disappointing for everyone.

Warranty claim update:
I received a reply to my shifter issue this morning, and was asked if I had adjusted the screw on the side of the shifter body, so I grabbed my allen-keys and unscrewed the screw, but as I expected it made no difference to the sequential shift problem. All the screw does is control the amount of tension/resistance when shifting, so screwing it all the way in makes the shift action stiff and very defined, all the way out it becomes soft or resistance free.

I know Fanatec will sort my problem out as quickly as possible, and stuff like this does happen with all products even Ferrari's, so I will show some patience, and hopefully once it's sorted I will have a problem free sim rig.
Even with the issues Ive had I still recommend the CSW and BMW GT2 rim, simply outstanding gear for the price you pay.

Cheers!

 

[UFwho]

That is stellar conjecture and, sorry to sound harsh, complete bullshit. Fanatec is NOT going out of business.
The second best joke of 2014 I have heard.

I'm not saying they WILL. In fact I really hope they never do go out of business! However, they do need to be very careful how they treat each and every customer. This is not a product that every household needs. This IS actually a product that is used predominantly in an online community. Therefore their customers are often not far from contact with one another. And when a forum starts like this one, where the "pepsi or coke" question comes into play, it can affect their sales greatly depending. I am impressed by the CSW. I found my way here because I needed answers that I wasn't getting from them. And the truth is that initially I joined this conversation in hopes that someone at fanatec would get wind of some of these forums, comments, reviews etc. and pass the word to the top that the people are getting restless. I want them to succeed. I want them to become the best of the options in that price range. But mostly, I want them to learn something from all this before they lose their piece of the market and my CSW becomes nothing more than a conversation piece! Finally, in case you haven't seen all the previous posts, I wanted a replacement. My distributor told me that fanatec didn't want to replace it because i have been in possession of it for more than three months. Then when I wrote directly to fanatec, they told me that they didn't want to replace it because I didn't buy it from the website, but bought it from a licensed distributor instead... ? By the way, what is the best joke you heard so far in 2014?

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I wanted a replacement. My distributor told me that fanatec didn't want to replace it because i have been in possession of it for more than three months. Then when I wrote directly to fanatec, they told me that they didn't want to replace it because I didn't buy it from the website, but bought it from a licensed distributor instead... ?

UFwho,
It matters not who you purchased it from, if the distributor is a licensed authorised dealer for Fanatec products then it should still be covered by the manufacturers warranty, in Fanatec's case I believe it's 1 year from purchase date, that's how things work in Australia. Seems to me that Fanatec are stalling for time so the warranty runs out voiding any claim for a replacement. I would be onto my consumer law office or relevant body that deals with consumer protection laws in your country.

If you have the emails from both the distributor and fanatec I would take them to your consumer protection authorities and lodge a complaint, don't let them get away with it, I wouldn't.

Cheers

 

[Tim Meuris]

UFwho,
It matters not who you purchased it from, if the distributor is a licensed authorised dealer for Fanatec products then it should still be covered by the manufacturers warranty, in Fanatec's case I believe it's 1 year from purchase date, that's how things work in Australia. Seems to me that Fanatec are stalling for time so the warranty runs out voiding any claim for a replacement. I would be onto my consumer law office or relevant body that deals with consumer protection laws in your country.

If you have the emails from both the distributor and fanatec I would take them to your consumer protection authorities and lodge a complaint, don't let them get away with it, I wouldn't.

Cheers

hmm
not that reassuring

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

While you are indeed correct that your warranty is good for a year no matter if you bought it from their retailer or directly, that does not necessarily mean you can go directly to Fanatec if you bought a retailer as I've mentioned earlier this thread. Fanatec may have made a deal with that retailer that specifically states that the retailer is responsible for handling any product support during a certain amount of months or year(s) after purchase. As I've also mentioned earlier, this is how Logitech operates, at least here in Sweden, I had a mouse break down after a few months of use and called Logitech support (as I have done the other 2 times my mice have had issues), but was told that since the product still was under a year old I had to contact the retailer. (edit: brainfart, that was for my logitech momo, so different product but same case)

Furthermore, like a broken record, having the wheel replaced as a first attempt of resolution is NOT something you should expect, not from Fanatec, nor from Thrustmaster or anyone else for that matter. I would like to see the consumer law that states that you have this right, because I don't think it exists, they have their fullest right to offer you a repair instead. They can't expect you to do it yourself, but either they would have your retailer to take care of it or offer you to send it in to them to have it repaired.

 

[UFwho]

UFwho,
It matters not who you purchased it from, if the distributor is a licensed authorised dealer for Fanatec products then it should still be covered by the manufacturers warranty, in Fanatec's case I believe it's 1 year from purchase date, that's how things work in Australia. Seems to me that Fanatec are stalling for time so the warranty runs out voiding any claim for a replacement. I would be onto my consumer law office or relevant body that deals with consumer protection laws in your country.

If you have the emails from both the distributor and fanatec I would take them to your consumer protection authorities and lodge a complaint, don't let them get away with it, I wouldn't.

Cheers

Well guess what! I am back on this page right now because I just got off the phone with the distributor. Things just went from bad to worse!! I am so angry right now that I'm not even going to explain. Consumer affairs is definitely the next step. And I NO LONGER SPEAK HIGHLY OF TGE FANATEC PRODUCTS. DO NOT BUY FANATEC!!!!!!!

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I hope you get it sorted UFwho, right or wrong expectations, you deserve to have working equipment. Good luck!

 

[UFwho]

hmm
not that reassuring

He is right! They are stalling things so the warranties expire!! I was told at purchase (1 year ago) that there was a 2 year warranty. Just now, on the phone, the guy made a comment about trying to fix all this before the warranty expires. After hanging up I found myself wondering if he is referring to the next few weeks or the next year?!!!

 

[Tim Meuris]

damn, that's nasty
what's the back-up plan?

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

They are stalling things so the warranties expire!!!

This is nonsense, at least from Fanatecs perspective, I can't comment on the distributor because i know nothing about them but I know there's a fair few cork headed ones out there.
Fanatec can not legally stall your case until warranty expires, because you have contacted them with your issue while the product was still covered by warranty. That is unless they have offered you to repair the unit if you sent it to them, and you declined that offer, if that has happened you have no case what so ever.

 

[Ilias Axarlis]

Well he said at the starting pages that he has a burned motor in he's CSW, fanatec told him to replace the motor but he insisted for a new CSW. I want to believe that the law will cover u m8 but I don't think so.

 

[UFwho]

I hope you get it sorted UFwho, right or wrong expectations, you deserve to have working equipment. Good luck!

While you are indeed correct that your warranty is good for a year no matter if you bought it from their retailer or directly, that does not necessarily mean you can go directly to Fanatec if you bought a retailer as I've mentioned earlier this thread. Fanatec may have made a deal with that retailer that specifically states that the retailer is responsible for handling any product support during a certain amount of months or year(s) after purchase. As I've also mentioned earlier, this is how Logitech operates, at least here in Sweden, I had a mouse break down after a few months of use and called Logitech support (as I have done the other 2 times my mice have had issues), but was told that since the product still was under a year old I had to contact the retailer. (edit: brainfart, that was for my logitech momo, so different product but same case)

Furthermore, like a broken record, having the wheel replaced as a first attempt of resolution is NOT something you should expect, not from Fanatec, nor from Thrustmaster or anyone else for that matter. I would like to see the consumer law that states that you have this right, because I don't think it exists, they have their fullest right to offer you a repair instead. They can't expect you to do it yourself, but either they would have your retailer to take care of it or offer you to send it in to them to have it repaired.

This is nonsense, at least from Fanatecs perspective, I can't comment on the distributor because i know nothing about them but I know there's a fair few cork headed ones out there.
Fanatec can not legally stall your case until warranty expires, because you have contacted them with your issue while the product was still covered by warranty. That is unless they have offered you to repair the unit if you sent it to them, and you declined that offer, if that has happened you have no case what so ever.

yes. I know. I'm just extremely angry right now. The distributor told me that the new one they would send will have the upgraded firmware as well as a thicker belt. They would send it when fanatec confirms they have also sent out a new one to them. Now they say they can't do that. I asked what tge story is on the thicker belt. They say that the belt is not important in my case and that I should receive the new motor in about 3 more weeks. The whole thing is a bullshit nightmare.

Well he said at the starting pages that he has a burned motor in he's CSW, fanatec told him to replace the motor but he insisted for a new CSW. I want to believe that the law will cover u m8 but I don't think so.

I know. ....I know. I'm just extremely angry right now.

 

[UFwho]

yes. I know. I'm just extremely angry right now. The distributor told me that the new one they would send will have the upgraded firmware as well as a thicker belt. They would send it when fanatec confirms they have also sent out a new one to them. Now they say they can't do that. I asked what tge story is on the thicker belt. They say that the belt is not important in my case and that I should receive the new motor in about 3 more weeks. The whole thing is a bullshit nightmare.

I know. ....I know. I'm just extremely angry right now.

let this be a warning to all potential fanatec customers. once they have your money, you are no longer important to them. They boast german engineering. they should be ashamed of them selves. I work in performance driving programs for BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi ....you name it. German engineering is a real standard in the industry. And these guys AIN'T it!!!

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

German engineering, made in china xD

 

[UFwho]

German engineering, made in china xD

......exactly.

 

[Warren Dawes]

German engineering, made in china xD

Well, that's the way of world economics these days, cheap labour is all important.

Off topic I know, but my grand daughter had to buy a new Saxophone over the holidays with us, so off to the local Music specialists for a Yamaha (reputed to be of the highest quality ). We managed to get the latest model (nearly $2000 worth ) but of course these are no longer made in Japan . The new one was made in Indonesia.
We were assured that Yamaha would have implemented the normal Yamaha quality control in Indonesia, but it is easy to lose that confidence. Fingers crossed, but even the most highly reputed brands in the market are willing to risk their reputations if they can get slave labour.