UFO Discussion

[Hampus Andersson]

He had cancer btw,

Yea they all do. And if they don´t get cancer it´s suicide... or even assassinated but they leave that for Presidents, and other high-level figures.

As for the Mi6 guy, that is not something i´m standing for or support, the only thing i "know" is that the Government knows more about aliens then you and me and that they have without a doubt had some form of contact with them.

Pretty insane article/text though,

 

[Hampus Andersson]

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

Ufologi is a very interesting subject to discuss but sadly it is a science divided into two groups.
One that explains UFO's as alien spacecrafts.
One that assigns them as unexplained.

I am a part of the latter, as long as we haven't found it it doesn't exist.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I am a part of the latter, as long as we haven't found it it doesn't exist.

I think you mean as long as nothing is official and comes from a government it´s not true.

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

I think you mean as long as nothing is official and comes from a government it´s not true.

Nope.
As long as it hasn't been acknowledge a peer-to-peer review by scientists atleast I won't acknowledge the existence of the spacecrafts or extraterrestrials.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Nope.
As long as it hasn't been acknowledge a peer-to-peer review by scientists atleast I won't acknowledge the existence of the spacecrafts or extraterrestrials.

scientists? You have ex-military officials claiming they have proof for extra terrestial activity.
Around 400 of them.

If you are talking about what people have seen in the sky then called in to a UFO-bureau of some kind then you would find thousands and thousands of reports that nobody can explain.

What we have here on earth and what we can do as a species is general knowledge.
So anything that goes out of these borders, like going from a thousand miles per hour to a dead stop only to take off in another direction we know is not from us. Just because we can´t say, oh this craft comes from this planet in this solar system does not make it non-existant.

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

Sorry I don't argue with fanatics.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Sorry I don't argue with fanatics.

I´m not a fanatic.

I actually was pretty damn ignorant, just like you. Until i saw a UFO myself with two of my friends.
After that day everything changed, i started to get interested in the subject and really the only thing that is keeping this from being official is people who ridicule or when pressed into a corner say stuff like "Sorry i don´t argue with fanatics"

That, is the reason why we are discussing this on a forum and not reading about it in the newspaper.

You can´t say a word on "the disclosure project" so you shove your head in the sand.
A natural reaction from most people but i truly hope that you one day will see it for yourself.

But i doubt that if an alien landed in your backyard and drank a cup of coffee with you, you would after he left stand my the computer and wait for an official announcement as that is what counts.

If you actually did some research, proper research that is.. you will find many things that can´t be explained in any other way then ET.

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

I have like you researched all those things, from project blue book to the disclosure project.
I used too be a believer that all UFO's were alien spacecrafts but after seeing two, myself and being able to explain both of them I turned to the skeptical side.
I have met people who still argues that ALL UFO's explainable or not are alien spacecrafts because they seem so, and people who have had experiences with abductions or seen something they can't explain seems to be offended when you suggest other things than aliens.
It gives them a feeling of being special, sadly it is more damaging than good.
My head is above the sand, I see other things than grains of sand now.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

You can´t study researches from the governments.. Obviously you will find nothing.
That is the whole goal of the project blue book un-officially that is.
Blue book was a research done by the US Airforce.

That would be like asking Kim Jong if he could do a research on the working conditions in North Korea.
We all know what would be said in that report. "everything´s fine, move on now"

Should also mention that i don´t take everything in the sky and say that all of it is UFO´s.
I have enough general knowledge about the world to know what we can do, what we can create and what is clearly not man-made.

Tell me about the disclosure project. What is your assessment to the evidence, witnesses and the opinion that they would testify in front of congress.

You should read the report made from a group of people with no connections to any government.
I can´t remember the name of the review/report but i know i have posted a snippet of the review on some page here.
it contains witness testimonies from Generals, pilots, fighter jet pilots, multiple people in flight control etc.

They took all cases of UFO reports, threw away the BS and narrowed it down so much until they had an x amount of reports in which they could not explain, some even contains evidence for radiation etc on the vegetation around where the incident occured.

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

They took all cases of UFO reports, threw away the BS and narrowed it down so much until they had an x amount of reports in which they could not explain, some even contains evidence for radiation etc on the vegetation around where the incident occured.

And that's why I don't recognize them as a truth worthy source.
You cannot throw away stuff no matter how much bullshit it consists, what one regards as bullshit can be important.
All arguments has too on their own merit and evidences, you don't throw them away then the argument falls.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

And that's why I don't recognize them as a truth worthy source.
You cannot throw away stuff no matter how much bullshit it consists, what one regards as bullshit can be important.
All arguments has too on their own merit and evidences, you don't throw them away then the argument falls.

They did not exactly threw it away...

They studied everything, every single document. they soldered out the obvious ones until they had a bunch of reports that could not be explained by anything, natural phenomena or something built by humans etc.

Don´t take my translations directly as i have a tendency to "speak my own language" sort of.
So just to be clear, they did not throw away anything. They studied everything meticulously.

again, what is your assessment on the disclosure project?

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

My assessment of the project comes not from the documents but from the goal of the organization and the person who founded them

First the disclosure project who has the following goals according to their website:

http://www.disclosureproject.org'][/url]

The Disclosure Project is a nonprofit research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 500 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.

The description here is why they will never be viewed as a serious organization.
Also that they are already convinced that alien space crafts exists but yet cannot produce a single evidence other than testimonies which sadly doesn't have a big value in terms of science.

Also the founder Steven M. Greer who claims he is a contacte and being able to communicate with the aliens.
Source: https://sites.google.com/site/nbgoku23/Closeencountersofthefifthkind.commun.htm?attredirects=0

That said the organization makes the dangerous assumption that aliens exists and communicates with them. yet they haven't made any space ship landed nor any other evidence of the aliens other than as I said, alleged former government officals.
So no to me the disclosure project is a big farce.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

The description here is why they will never be viewed as a serious organization.
Also that they are already convinced that alien space crafts exists but yet cannot produce a single evidence other than testimonies which sadly doesn't have a big value in terms of science.

Wrong. they have facts from radar showing objects going from no km/h to over a thousand in no time.
All documented by i would say around 500 pages of radar-data. ..and that´s just one case.

So they know they exist. they have proof of it. That is why their goals is what it is.
So it´s not a dangerous assumption to say that aliens does exist. In fact, it´s ignorant to state otherwise.

It´s funny to see you dodge what is evidence and focus on other stuff.

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

If they have radar evidence what it says is that we have something going from 0 to thousand in a very short time, it doesn't say what.
Also I checked the radar cases (http://www.disclosureproject.org/access/es-wit-test-radar-pilot.htm) only thing I find is again more personal stories and no data (A backlog from a radar tower is not data).
If they have solid data which these types of reading cannot be explained by disturbances, then we have something worth investigating but as I've said before until proven NOT an alien space craft.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

A heated argument with Hampus, how rare I think there's enough proof to think and investigate this stuff but not a single irrefutible proof of anything actually to point straight to aliens. Nada.. Before such evidence is presented they are just unidentified flying objects. Personal experience is of course something that changes things personally but to try to make everyone think as passionately as you is futile. Some people will without a doubt say they are visited by angels or touched by a god without a single piece of fact proving their point.

Somethings out there, that is almost a fact (strange obscure witness accounts, no matter how numerous is not a fact, it's a phenomenon of unknown origins...). We can only speculate what the "thing" is. The bad thing is just these UFO freaks who make it all sound hocum. Most of it is just speculation conveyed as facts, wild theories from uneducated persons that defy logic and science in general and the whole "new Wave" movement sticking it's ugly crystal worshipping head all around turning a serious subject into a carneval of pseudo-religions. Unless we get rid of them, then we have to wait for the officials to say/do something and we all know how that turns out when goverments are not representing people anymore... If i wanted to hide something, i think this whole UFO "counterculture" would do it for me.

Personally i think the whole UFO movement is useless, they are a PR disaster, a sad sad joke and a hindrance to real scientific process that could possibly discover something real. I can't think that scientists would keep anything this big hidden for so long, it's just impossible. The amount of people that UFO movement says is involved in a coverup is simply too populous, just thinking of what fame and fortune is reserved for the first individual to introduce Alf...

 

[Fredrik Arbegard]

I agree with you as whole Kennett, but not that the whole UFO movement is a joke.
There exists organizations who collects reports and tries to explain them using logic and science instead of spacecrafts.
Such as UFO Sweden (www.ufo.se) for example.
However these people and their work are being viewed badly because these other nutters exists, which in my opinion is really sad.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Should've not generalized, there are some genuine organizations too. I would not say that SETI is not a serious scientific institution and they are officially trying to find the "green little men". If their shared computing software wasn't so hard to get working, i'd lend my computer for that use in a second. And if they find one, you'll bet that it will make headlines.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

If they have radar evidence what it says is that we have something going from 0 to thousand in a very short time, it doesn't say what.
Also I checked the radar cases (http://www.disclosureproject.org/access/es-wit-test-radar-pilot.htm) only thing I find is again more personal stories and no data (A backlog from a radar tower is not data).
If they have solid data which these types of reading cannot be explained by disturbances, then we have something worth investigating but as I've said before until proven NOT an alien space craft.

They have evidence, he had i would estimate around 500 pages of radar-data in his hands in the video.
I´ll see if i can find that.

"If they have radar evidence what it says is that we have something going from 0 to thousand in a very short time, it doesn't say what."

We have nothing on this planet that can do that. If a human sat in it he would die of the G-forces.
We know how to use air to stay up in the air.

By using those laws of physics you can´t get something to accelerate from 0 to 1000km/h in a split second.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I think there's enough proof to think and investigate this stuff but not a single irrefutible proof of anything actually to point straight to aliens. Nada.. Before such evidence is presented they are just unidentified flying objects..

That is true but we have solid proof that something was at that location and that the witnesses is speaking the truth.
(backed up by the evidence of anomalies at the sight)
They found evidence of radiation and damaged vegitation in some cases.

There have been several cases where radio tower has sent up Jet fighters to "chase" the object.
But no luck of course as it hit speeds not capable of anything made by man.

Those cases are not just one or two but several. these are people we depend on in our daily life. Why not now?