The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

sjb266 · Oct 13, 2018

Based on Henk's observations, I'll definitely still be running my Aura's in pretty much the config they are now just for the RPM and gear change.. looks like i'm sticking with Simvibe for a while!

sjb266 · Oct 13, 2018

Hey Henk...

Do you think my 4080 rig will be rigid enough for the SFX100s? Or am I definitely going to need to go up to 120 or 160? Every instance i've seen has 120 or 160mm profile.. Thanks

anton_Chez · Oct 13, 2018

Don't forget that the larger profile is also heavier. I probably wouldn't worry about it. At the end of the day you can always try it with the 80mm and change it out later if you feel the need.

Ringorian · Oct 13, 2018

Mine is 45 x 90 mm

RaceNut · Oct 13, 2018

Actuator placement can play a role in chassis flex too so that may be a factor in what works best. With my setup, the main rails are all 1.5" x 3" medium weight profile. I can't detect any deflection what-so-ever but, I do have my actuators close to the seat to achieve maximum angles. If you are going for wider spacing (nearer to corners), then you may want to go with taller profiles or the HD version (thicker wall), or even use a truss design with light square profile.

I mounted the pedals on separate square rails so that I can adjust the overall length if needed. My seat is also on slides to suit other players. Seat Angle adjustment is quite versatile too.

I'm sure someone with an engineering background can provide some useful formula's to calculate what is ideal but, I'm very confident in what I am using now.

HoiHman · Oct 13, 2018

It's exactly like Jochen said. The rig starts moving during fast rapid movement. Especially when you crash. I did some testing today, but it takes some balls to intentionally crash the car at high speed.

A lot of things happen when you crash or when you get hit by another car. Serious impacts

I made new plates to protect the carpet with carpet on both sides. They are now 50cm long, which should give the rig some more room to walk.

Iracing profile is great, so is assetto Corsa. Raceroom profile needs work.

HoiHman · Oct 13, 2018

Simon 80x40 should be enough as long as your profile is not too long

HugoB · Oct 13, 2018

HoiHman said:
It's exactly like Jochen said. The rig starts moving during fast rapid movement. Especially when you crash. I did some testing today, but it takes some balls to intentionally crash the car at high speed.

A lot of things happen when you crash or when you get hit by another car. Serious impacts

I made new plates to protect the carpet with carpet on both sides. They are now 50cm long, which should give the rig some more room to walk.

Iracing profile is great, so is assetto Corsa. Raceroom profile needs work.

Do you think it could work if you added a 'ridge' in front of the feet (and maybe also behind) attached to this plate, to stop the feet from moving forward? Like a little speed bump that the feet can't jump over? Maybe some narrow planks just nailed on top?

cprelot · Oct 14, 2018

hey Guy's I'm about to source the hallow shaft's, beside to be 270mm lenght / 30mm diameter
do they need to be tread inside? how this hold into the slider just with force? sorry I dont see on the picture

is this is fine? Hallow shaft

thanks

HoiHman · Oct 14, 2018

hugo bokhorst said:
Do you think it could work if you added a 'ridge' in front of the feet (and maybe also behind) attached to this plate, to stop the feet from moving forward? Like a little speed bump that the feet can't jump over? Maybe some narrow planks just nailed on top?

Hugo, i'm currently on the 5th version of plates to protect the carpet.

This is V1. The surfaced ended up to be too small, still leaving imprints on the carpet

V2 = just a 25x25cm plate. Left inpints and the rig walks of
V3 = 25x25cm plate with carpet underneath. No inprints, still walking
V4= 25x25cm plate with carpet and a ring. It retains the rubber isolator , but with heavy movements the feet of the actuator just walks of the rubber isolator

Today V5 will be tested. Longer and double sided carpet. This should hopefully be good enough

cprelot said:
hey Guy's I'm about to source the hallow shaft's, beside to be 270mm lenght / 30mm diameter
do they need to be tread inside? how this hold into the slider just with force? sorry I dont see on the picture
thanks

30mm diameter
minimal inside diameter 18mm, no thread
min 270mm long (if you make them longer, the actuator is longer and the rig stands higher)

The one in shopping list has a 6mm thick wall, but 3-4 mm will be good enough as long as it's 30mm thick and hollow.

sjb266 · Oct 14, 2018

It's a good sign that the biggest issue you have with the setup is your floor Henk!...

I shouldn't laugh though until I get mine going.. I'm going to get me some of this:

http://exhibitfloors.com.au/racedeck-commercial-events-free-flow

Mascot · Oct 14, 2018

Henk, is your rig sitting on a solid concrete floor or on a suspended floor/timber joists? Apologies if you've already said this somewhere.

Re the whole rig moving, have you considered tethering it in place using cam straps or bungees?

HoiHman · Oct 14, 2018

Without having tried rally, in general you can : If you crash, the rig moves depending on your settings.

You can limit the max movement of the forces, but still keep the initial intensity. Then the movement is still great and with a crash it doesn't move as far and fast and stays better in place.

I'm on a concrete floor. I have considered securing the rig, but this could cause noises going into the walls and second i'm afraid that when a 200kg rig wants to move, nothing can stop it. So it might even rip the plug out the wall which you use when securing it.

For me personally the longer plates are the best solution. Even with the silent setting i tried this morning, it still moved about 5cm, but i still have 30cm to go

Now for the good part.

My wife has very very good hearing. Way to good

I have been driving on the HIghlands track in AC. Which is great for testing. It has everything, ruff road surface and a lot of altitude changes. I drove with the Mclaren 650S.

-When you get hit by another car, you actually get hit.
-Driving up hill with the car pitched back, during braking the rig surges forward, while it's still maintaining it's pitched backwards position is awesome Thats the advantage of having 10cm movement
- That brick road at the start is crazy

I went of multiple times and one my kids is still sleeping.

My wife DID NOT complain about the noise levels

But, i have to mention to, that i'm a floor down and have special noise protecting panels in front of the door.

But...... still this is awesome news.

While tweaking the "silent profile" i probably adjusted a bit too much and got a great motion profile, which was still pretty quiet. Just don't go off track

There's still A LOT work on the rig, but after that a lot tuning. This new motion not only effects the simvibe configuration ( going back to rpm only) but also how the effects in the steering wheel are felt.

We have a lot fake effects coming through the steering wheel to compensate the lack of motion.

Overall pretty happy (even without my GS-4 which will hopefully be fixed this week)

Was planning to do a lot of stuff today, but i will probably just only race

ColinMac · Oct 14, 2018

Sounds fantastic!

Mr Latte · Oct 14, 2018

anton_Chez said:
Rodney is a tactile enthusiast so it's only natural for him to wonder what his passion and knowledge on the subject and hardware can bring to this new project. Just as we've discussed it on other threads ranging from static rigs of varying components (80 20, off the shelf, DIY, etc) to the various motion platforms people are running on their chassis.

I do think, however, that we do indeed need to keep this thread on topic, as there is much to be discussed and shared, especially when some of the other guys join Henk in their builds. We are very much looking forward to more user experience and input.

Before long if people feel the need to add a dedicated tactile setup to their build in regard to the SFX100, we will certainly have a few dedicated threads on the subject. Just as we will for settings, profiles, etc.

I stated in-depth discussion of this did not have to take place HERE.

The intention was to get some to seek and try new things, not just to stick to what they already have tried before, but it looks like I am wasting my time. Its clear to me, people here have already formed an opinion on what can be done with tactile and this motion. While it is obvious we DO have more control of "tactile effects" operation with the specific tactile software solutions.

We also if honestly seeking the best potential, would then cover ALL the options and possibilities before concluding what the limit is beforehand. How dare I question, what people have tried to do or the equipment they have used. They have already concluded and determined what is possible in their own minds.

Yet it appears their own attempts thus far are quite limited in one or several important aspects. Has Henk or other owners/builders put much effort into using alternative software like SSW and spent time, learning to create or building specific sensations to enhance the individual effects?

Someone using a Reckhorn unit, ADX unit, Aura Pro or Mini LFE units (most common models) is firstly greatly reducing the output potential, yet someone's self experiences with using them is NOT conclusive to what is possible, nor is only using Simvibe. Its like a G29 steering wheel user stating what is the limit in what is possible in strength output and detailing for a wheel.

Yes, I've spent two years, looking at different solutions and monitoring with specific hardware what different tactile software can offer. I experimented at different things with the various best tactile hardware available. While this, is something very few others may of been doing, because I have a hobby interest in it, I enjoy it. This apparently makes me a smartass or a self-proclaimed professor.

@sjb266 your comments are just insulting, rude and ignorant, you clearly have not a clue what potential is possible in how we CAN better combine tactile to this or other motion.

I dont care what you guys use, you dont have to use what I do neither. I only seen great potential in the level of tactile I have achieved for my own rig in the detail and energy it can offer and something like that being combined with this very attractive motion option.

I stated before and its something I have not seen ANYWHERE is a cockpit that best implements both motion and tactile to the full potential.

We are done here on the topic...

HugoB · Oct 14, 2018

HoiHman said:
Without having tried rally, in general you can : If you crash, the rig moves depending on your settings.

You can limit the max movement of the forces, but still keep the initial intensity. Then the movement is still great and with a crash it doesn't move as far and fast and stays better in place.

I'm on a concrete floor. I have considered securing the rig, but this could cause noises going into the walls and second i'm afraid that when a 200kg rig wants to move, nothing can stop it. So it might even rip the plug out the wall which you use when securing it.

For me personally the longer plates are the best solution. Even with the silent setting i tried this morning, it still moved about 5cm, but i still have 30cm to go

Now for the good part.

My wife has very very good hearing. Way to good

I have been driving on the HIghlands track in AC. Which is great for testing. It has everything, ruff road surface and a lot of altitude changes. I drove with the Mclaren 650S.

-When you get hit by another car, you actually get hit.
-Driving up hill with the car pitched back, during braking the rig surges forward, while it's still maintaining it's pitched backwards position is awesome Thats the advantage of having 10cm movement
- That brick road at the start is crazy

I went of multiple times and one my kids is still sleeping.

My wife DID NOT complain about the noise levels

But, i have to mention to, that i'm a floor down and have special noise protecting panels in front of the door.

But...... still this is awesome news.

While tweaking the "silent profile" i probably adjusted a bit too much and got a great motion profile, which was still pretty quiet. Just don't go off track

There's still A LOT work on the rig, but after that a lot tuning. This new motion not only effects the simvibe configuration ( going back to rpm only) but also how the effects in the steering wheel are felt.

We have a lot fake effects coming through the steering wheel to compensate the lack of motion.

Overall pretty happy (even without my GS-4 which will hopefully be fixed this week)

Was planning to do a lot of stuff today, but i will probably just only race

Maybe if you limit the amount of travel to 1.5'' the rig won't move

I haven't heard of any D-Box users reporting their rig moves around....

It seems the energy these SFX100's can produce is way more that adequate

that's good, I love over-engineered machinery, like a Mazda MX-5 with a V8 in it, you'll never use it, but just in case.

Ringorian · Oct 14, 2018

As i mentioned before And Henk also realized .. If You Go off it could Go Wild because He uses values He doesnt need when driving on Track.so no need to use em .. if you use lot of pitch and roll degree.. And your car gets airborne or rollover. could be the reason. @HoiHman , can you Post your Profile in discord which is catapulting you around ?
My rig is moving little

anton_Chez · Oct 14, 2018

Pretty sure you can get rid of most of the fake effects if you use a decent wheel and turn off anything that's 'canned' or added into the FFB. In AC I just run the gain (obviously), nothing else is ticked and on the OSW it feels super natural. rFactor 2, too, is pretty much just direct FFB from the telemetry with maybe a touch of damping added if you want, to smooth out the really harsh and rough feeling you get when the signal is so raw. AMS, same thing, turn everything else off and run at 360Hz pure. I guess it depends on the sim. Raceroom does have too many sliders for my liking. I'd like to see that stuff removed and have them set it to something that is supposed to mimic real life. Choosing the feeling of the tyres VS the steering rack is silly to me. Have the signal transmit what you would feel if you held a wheel in real life. Love the sim, FFB was a pain to get right though. It's fine for me now though.

RaceNut · Oct 14, 2018

FFB is always a "loaded" subject in regard to preferences and realism. Of late, there seem to be many that prefer the "less is more" approach. I sometimes wonder if some people would be happier with no FFB at all. Been there, done that; no need to go back.

I think this gets even more complex when we add tactile / motion. It seems to me, there is a balance to be struck, where the various forms of feedback work in harmony to provide the maximum immersion level.

I like more information and detail in my FFB than most but, my Autocross experience seems to involve cars that may have some unique feedback traits (under-steer induced Vibration). Titles that offer that effect in both wheel-FFB and motion cues are among my favorites because it replicates my RL experience but, those titles are rare.

Still, I'm happy to have as many tuning options as I can and de-tuning for basic FFB is generally, quite easy to do. I feel much the same way about tactile and motion; I prefer to have more control although, I admit that can involve a lot of time to test and refine for best results.

It seems Henk is currently undergoing the heavy-lifting portion of the setup and tuning phase.

Cheers to his efforts among those of others, that make such things possible.

HoiHman · Oct 14, 2018

Jochen examend my profile and i was probably asking a bit too much travel and speed. Still need to learn a lot.

It's all about balancing speed and travel and learning to know the program

Jochen: if i can somehow find the max forces i use on track and let the graph stop there, will this limit the max forces to that point when i go off?

In the example above: Value 5 from the game will give max 20% movement, if the game puts out 7,5 i will still get a max of 20% movement ?

Dean is spot on about the setup and tuning fase, it's gonna be a pretty big task. Some people just use the basic profiles, some people keep tuning for ever. I'm somewhere in the middle.

In general that does mean i'm not fully enjoying my SFX100 yet, because instead of just driving and enjoying you're constantly thinking what can be improved.

Due to the new placement of my rig. It's currently impossible to drive with a monitor. So every tweaking and tuning needs to be done with the rift on. Taking it off , making adjustments on the monitor and putting it back on again.