The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

mouse1 · Feb 25, 2019

I paid $995 (motors + shipping). And had been taxed for ~$290. Yeah, I'm living in Hungary... (Damn...)

dedraro · Feb 25, 2019

mouse1 said:
I paid $995 (motors + shipping). And had been taxed for ~$290. Yeah, I'm living in Hungary... (Damn...)

Almost the same in Italy

HoiHman · Feb 25, 2019

About the use of buttkickers in combination with the SFX100

My initial thoughts were : You don't need any, perhaps one for RPM.

But as time goes by and still have them around, you start experimenting and in the end i still managed to put

1x LFE (under the GS-4)
1x Advance (at the back of the GS-4)
2x Mini LFE's at the pedals
1x Mini LFE at the shifter

I would not want to miss any of them. All buttkickers are mainly used for engine RPM. With that much tactile power, i have the ability to numb the effects of the SFX100

Not my intention at all of course, but the ability to place the RPM's effects exactly where you want them is great. Even with the more intense SFX100 profiles, i can still get a very very good RPM vibe in my chassis.

Favourites by far are the Advance at the back of the GS-4 and the mini LFE at the shifter. Especially when driving Rally Cross in the awesome DR2. The RPM goes into the shifter lever, but also into the handbrake. Which is an awesome feeling at every start.

As time goes by i have learned other advantages of the added tactile to my rig. Mostly during the late and early hours when i have to run a quiet profile, the LFE under the seat and mini LFE at the pedals provide greater detail at lower noise levels.

Like already mentioned before, if you are running the SFX100 on dull non-laser scanned track, the tactile can also help give a bit more road feel. (speedbased white noise in Simvibe )

Overall advice:

if you just have installed the SFX100 and removed all your tactile, wait a couple weeks before selling all your tactile, you just might need it back on the rig.

anton_Chez · Feb 25, 2019

I wouldn't get rid of my tactile, just removed most of the effects because they were rendered pretty much useless by the actuators. I use engine RPM and have just recently (tonight) reintroduced the deceleration effect for braking. I've tuned it a little differently and now it's more smooth and progressive, only becoming more noticeable once you're really hard on the brakes into the corner. Glad I tried it again as I had removed it and only ran engine vibes with some wheel slide. rF2 has some buggy wheel slide telemetry by the looks of it so I disable it for that title but it works pretty good in AC.

Since you're here Henk, any chance you can give a few tips on extracting the most out of some surge feeling with the SFX100, now that I've removed the V3 entirely? I've played around with it tonight in rF2 and even Raceroom using your DTM profile. I have to admit I had the Intensity down as the wife has gone to sleep but I just can't seem to get the nice acceleration feel that I'm sure I've felt somewhere in someone's profile.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

Kinetik finally responded, and in the interest of not having to wait 10 days for them to reply to an email,

Does anyone know if there's a paypal fee? There's a bank wire option and a paypal option, they don't talk about adding more money for a fee. Is one needed?

There's also another item on my list, I think 99% just for actual labor but it's kind of weird for it to show on an invoice, so if someone could confirm.. I've uploaded the actual invoice, but here what is the part is called.

0SZ90M cut treatment - middle profile sections - 4pcs

Edit: Nvm, I forgot you specify the length of the cut you need, this invoice is for how much that length cost. Makes sense.

I think it's all good. Just want to confirm I can paypal the exact amount listed in the invoice, or if I have to add in a fee or something. Last thing I want is a back and forth with these guys. Thanks dudes!

anton_Chez · Feb 25, 2019

Paypal will normally charge the seller a transaction fee. Meaning, if the seller has not already included that fee in the final price, you shouldn't be charged for it. I say shouldn't, because there is an option for sellers where you can select buyer pays fee or seller pays fee, from memory and depending how you're selling what you're selling. For instance, selling on eBay doesn't give you this option, they just automatically charge the seller.

Even if the person declares the buyer to pay for fees, it should come up in the final payment price regardless. Meaning, whatever you send as payment for the goods, should be final. Whether you're paying the fee or not.

It's confusing, but it doesn't work like import duties, where you pay whatever and then someone else asks for more money later. I'm pretty sure it's part of the single transaction, if you are the buyer.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

anton_Chez said:
Paypal will normally charge the seller a transaction fee. Meaning, if the seller has not already included that fee in the final price, you shouldn't be charged for it. I say shouldn't, because there is an option for sellers where you can select buyer pays fee or seller pays fee, from memory and depending how you're selling what you're selling. For instance, selling on eBay doesn't give you this option, they just automatically charge the seller.

Even if the person declares the buyer to pay for fees, it should come up in the final payment price regardless. Meaning, whatever you send as payment for the goods, should be final. Whether you're paying the fee or not.

It's confusing, but it doesn't work like import duties, where you pay whatever and then someone else asks for more money later. I'm pretty sure it's part of the single transaction, if you are the buyer.

Just seems weird I can wire the same price that I can PayPal to them. Why even offer PayPal since it's losing them money, you know?

I think you're right though. I'm going to PayPal that exact amount to the address given and hope they move on to processing.

E: Oh no, my address is wrong, no apartment. I can't call the phone number from my country. RIP one more week waiting for a response lol.

HoiHman · Feb 25, 2019

anton_Chez said:
I wouldn't get rid of my tactile, just removed most of the effects because they were rendered pretty much useless by the actuators. I use engine RPM and have just recently (tonight) reintroduced the deceleration effect for braking. I've tuned it a little differently and now it's more smooth and progressive, only becoming more noticeable once you're really hard on the brakes into the corner. Glad I tried it again as I had removed it and only ran engine vibes with some wheel slide. rF2 has some buggy wheel slide telemetry by the looks of it so I disable it for that title but it works pretty good in AC.

Since you're here Henk, any chance you can give a few tips on extracting the most out of some surge feeling with the SFX100, now that I've removed the V3 entirely? I've played around with it tonight in rF2 and even Raceroom using your DTM profile. I have to admit I had the Intensity down as the wife has gone to sleep but I just can't seem to get the nice acceleration feel that I'm sure I've felt somewhere in someone's profile.

Anton, i assume that the breaking effect is fine, since the SFX100 can really dive forward. If you reduce the overall intensity you are also obviously reducing the surge effects.

So, if i read correctly, you want those short movements when you shift up. (like it was with the NLMv3)
To achieve this you have to create small dip in the surge effect like this

This effect needs to be tune specific for the car you are driving. Since it's telemetry based, cars that have almost seamless shifts won't have good upshifts effects.

The curve posted above, gives me a smile with every upshift in the Dirt Rally 2 rally cross

metalnwood · Feb 25, 2019

@HoiHman I think that what you have in terms of transducers is what I am expecting you will need to have so that the vibe melds better with the sfx. That is a heck of a lot more transducer you have on yours than I do on mine though!

So my thoughts are that I should take my two front ones off the 160 profile and mount them directly on to the pedal tray, for the rear two, see if I can get some seat placement that will transmit in to the seat. I mainly use paddles and sequential and I dont use the sequential a lot so putting one there may not give me the best for my driving but I like the idea a lot

It may be the mini LFE's are just not up to the task as I have previously mounted them on the 4040 that the seat was bolted on to before and I cant say it felt as I was hoping.. Maybe one of your monsters in the future.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

C64 said:
View attachment 293221 View attachment 293222 View attachment 293221 View attachment 293222
I can’t see any problem with this other than the small risk of trapping feet underneath... but this can be easily offset by putting packers under the feet. On another point... I can see on your rig that you don’t have a cross member in the area of your front actuators, you really need one otherwise your rig will twist significantly. If you want to maximise stiffness each crossmember should have corner fixings front and back, top and bottom... so 4 per corner. The pictures below are the front and rear crossmembers on my rig.
View attachment 293223 View attachment 293224

I'm a little late here, but C64 how are your front actuators mounted? I've never seen them behind a rig like this.

Should I be worried about mounting them to the side of the P1 profile without having the base extend past the side profiles? This thing seems sturdy as a rock, but I'm trying to cover my bases.

Ordering some 40x40 profile to sink my chair into the P1 now, then moving the crossmember up the rig it was mounted on before and adding more brackets for stability. Is 40x40 strong enough for seat crossmembers, or should I go with 40x80? Just not sure how much support this needs within the frame and if it needs another set of corner brackets on the 40x80.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

@HoiHman

Would you mind going into how you tuned the engine RPM signals for your rig? It's always been one of the harder signals to get right, so I'm curious what you're using, as well as anyone else, to get the best results once the SFX 100 comes online.

Thanks!

Flag Ghost · Feb 25, 2019

acekrusty23 said:
Actuator internals arrived today from emily/ Amy.
All good.

So what email did you send them? Who did you send it to and exactly what did you request? Thanks for the help.

Chris

metalnwood · Feb 25, 2019

@ScottSonder @HoiHman @anton_Chez

I came to ask exactly the same question. After killing my neck, just about throwing my toys out of the cot I managed to move the front LFE's to the pedal tray. Now I am trying to get it feeling good. I have simvibe,simhub and SFX software.

The problem I have with RPM is that when you get past idle the feeling goes really bad like the missus just put her vibrator on the pit at full speed. At those higher Hz, there really is no power to put in the rig, just a buzz. At idle, it's good, although my lfe's are near bottoming out.

If you are using the sfx software can you show me your graph?

thx.

Mr Latte · Feb 25, 2019

tactile discussions come back....

Wee Tip:
For improved RPM, as well as other effects suiting delicate detailing, like wheelslip, speed and road surface. We have ways of extending the detail of these via rather cheap upgrade solutions.

Wee Clue:
The recent SRG review of the GT Sport wheel/game that surprised Barry in the detail it could achieve with just a teensy weensy tactile unit built into the wheel.

We need to consider adding to the tactile we may already have/use, units that have unique performance abilities with high frequencies.

Here are two spec sheets that highlight a 20w and 50w based units.
Keep in mind that most typical tactile units bring very little beyond 100Hz. Some like the small Dayton Pucs are listed at only operating upto 80Hz. What we need is nice power output with high fidelity vibrations as this extends the felt range.

I can confirm with Shakeit that I can get really nice detailing, especially between 60-200Hz.
Not going to say just yet how or what is being used above. This will be shared in an upcoming thread based on my own build/experiments.

Flag Ghost · Feb 25, 2019

Oooh... a big secret

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

metalnwood said:
@ScottSonder @HoiHman @anton_Chez

I came to ask exactly the same question. After killing my neck, just about throwing my toys out of the cot I managed to move the front LFE's to the pedal tray. Now I am trying to get it feeling good. I have simvibe,simhub and SFX software.

The problem I have with RPM is that when you get past idle the feeling goes really bad like the missus just put her vibrator on the pit at full speed. At those higher Hz, there really is no power to put in the rig, just a buzz. At idle, it's good, although my lfe's are near bottoming out.

If you are using the sfx software can you show me your graph?

thx.

YES! This is exactly the crux of the issue, I feel the power slamming through the first gear then it just bottoms out into this high frequency crap.

I'm working with ADX Max's instead of Buttkickers in SimVibe. The ADX's have way more power, it's crazy. Still cannot hit a good high-end engine note. I think the key to this is Harmonics, but I'm missing the settings there. Or layered engine effects? But I've found those to muddy up the waters.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

Mr Latte said:
tactile discussions come back....

Wee Tip:
For improved RPM, as well as other effects suiting delicate detailing, like wheelslip, speed and road surface. We have ways of extending the detail of these via rather cheap upgrade solutions.

Wee Clue:
The recent SRG review of the GT Sport wheel/game that surprised Barry in the detail it could achieve with just a teensy weensy tactile unit built into the wheel.

We need to consider adding to the tactile we may already have/use, units that have unique performance abilities with high frequencies.

Here are two spec sheets that highlight a 20w and 50w based units.
Keep in mind that most typical tactile units bring very little beyond 100Hz. Some like the small Dayton Pucs are listed at only operating upto 80Hz. What we need is nice power output with high fidelity vibrations as this extends the felt range.

I can confirm with Shakeit that I can get really nice detailing, especially between 60-200Hz.
Not going to say just yet how or what is being used above. This will be shared in an upcoming thread based on my own build/experiments.

You did NOT just do that to us... The ShakeIt software? I ditched the pad, but we're talking using that software at least?

Mr Latte · Feb 25, 2019

Asked before, can someone cover what the SFX brings in its own tactile.
Whats good, whats not so good and the limitations it brings.

If needed, start a new thread based on "SFX Tactile" and how to combine or take things further with transducers It would be good to get peoples own views on the whole subject. In there I can share what I am referring to if people are interested or seek to purchase and try themselves.

ScottSonder said:
You did NOT just do that to us... The ShakeIt software? I ditched the pad, but we're talking using that software at least?

Doesn't necessarily have to be Shakeit but yes it is much nicer/easier and brings more effects than Simvibe. It also has none of that crap with CM/EM. We can just link any effect to any channels....

I think those, (seat pads) are also very limited in the Hz they can output both in the low-high bass from what I have read. What I am referring too for improved higher frequency range, I have not seen anyone do on a cockpit before.

ScottSonder · Feb 25, 2019

I'll go give it a shot, thanks Mr. Latte. Also, what are the alternatives to shakers other than SimVibe and ShakeIt software? At least the ones worth trying. From a quick google search, it seems like many. Your name has also popped up as having not good relations with SimX, interesting. Didn't know they could be like that.

Time to go waste an afternoon configuring the rig, but how many of us enjoy that more than driving?

Flag Ghost · Feb 25, 2019

I just ordered the servo motors and controllers from AliExpress. It just hit me that these may be on the import fee list for the US. Anyone in the US get hit for import fees on these motors?
Chris