Featured The Road to Zero

Discussion in 'Car Culture' started by leon_90, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. leon_90

    leon_90
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    electric car charging.jpg

    UK government clears the road ahead to the 2040 ban of ICEs.


    It was not even a year ago that the United Kingdom government officially banned sale of all diesel/petrol cars and vans from 2040, in an attempt to take action against climate change, while fighting domestic pollution and improving citizen's health quality by investing in renewable energy sources.

    "Poor air quality is the biggest environmental risk to public health in the UK and this government is determined to take strong action in the shortest time possible", claimed the environment department last year.

    Now, Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grailing has revealed the plan titled "The Road to Zero", which is a document comprising of 46 points by which the government aims to achieve the full conversion of the UK automotive market from diesel and petrol to hybrid and electric vehicles. These points include investments in infrastructures for a total of 400 million pounds, a 40 million pounds programme for low cost wireless and on-street charging technology, subsidy of purchase price for 'green' vehicles and a 500 pounds provision for electric vehicle owners to put in a charge point in their home, and finally the "Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme" to retrofit emissions reduction technologies on older cars.

    "The Road to Zero Strategy sets out a clear path for Britain to be a world leader in the zero emission revolution, ensuring that the UK has cleaner air, a better environment and a stronger economy - said Chris Grayling - We are expecting our economy and society to experience profound change, which is why we have marked the Future of mobility as one of the 4 grand challenges as part of our modern Industrial Strategy".

    Read the full document HERE

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    Have you read the paper? What do you make of this plan? Do you think the UK will succeed in converting its domestic automotive market to 'green' vehicles by 2040? Is 2040 too late compared to the 2030 mark set by other countries?

    Let us know in the comments!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 08:47
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  2. howitzer155mm

    howitzer155mm
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    I find it insane that the countries that never contributed to pollution very much in the first place are the ones to most aggressively support laws against it. While countries like China have virtually no regulations on dumping/emissions. The rest of the world has to make up for what a handful of countries cause.

    Even the United States, the largest manufacturer of exported goods on the planet, with the largest singular Rail system and highway system is dwarfed by China's pollution burden.
     
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  3. leon_90

    leon_90
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    Unfortunately the matter is much more complicated than this. First, you have to remember that England, for example, was where (both) the industrial revolution(s) started. It used to be an incredibly polluted place, especially in some areas. In London, there happened to be days in which the city was clouded by a dense fog caused by pollution:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

    Also, all of the other European countries have very much contributed to pollution, and still do to this very day no matter modern regulations. In Italy, another example, we have serious issues with toxic waste dumped everywhere, even in agricultural zones, causing devastating health problems.

    Another factor is that these new countries now facing for the very first time an industrial revolution, like China but also India and many others, do not want to slow down their newly found progress due to accusations of polluting the environment, after the European and (some) American and Asian countries have done so for 2 centuries.

    As I said, it is a very complicated matter :(
     
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  4. robnitro

    robnitro

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    Electric is not feasible until they can come up with batteries that hold more charge. Also, the electric grid in the US for example is already on the limit during the summer. Add many electric cars to that and you will have huge issues.

    How are hybrids included in their zero emissions? Do they mean hybrids that only use the ICE engine on the long trips?
     
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  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo

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    Govt bans something and put the funds to enforce one tech only.
    Someone that could find a solution that works on current engines will change its research because public funds easy peasy money.

    Sad just sad. We have democracy so our lives are not owned by a king, people then use democracy turn the state/politicians into kings instead. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. traind

    traind

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    Is air quality that bad in the UK? I have not noticed it during my 2 trips there.
     
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  7. Snailer

    Snailer

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    I'm not sure you could run ICEs with zero emission fuels but, more importantly, why should we? Current IC engines have many shortcomings which electric motors do away with. I see no point in investing a vast amount of time and money to keep inferior tech alive when we already have a superior replacement ready for mass adoption :cautious:
     
  8. Ross Garland

    Ross Garland
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    What a load of rubbish. How can you have a ban that relies on technology that doesn't currently exist and/or is not affordable to the general public? As a self-employed tradesman my van is integral to my business, and I do hundreds of miles in it every week. No way would a current electric van be able to cope with my mileage and workload each day, not even close. And even if it could, where would I charge it at night? I can almost never park outside my own house so are the government going to place charging stations every three metres on every residential street in the country within the next twenty years? Bollocks!

    Also, what happens to our electrical power consumption when we all adopt electric cars? Right now our power stations run at very low capacity during the night due to low demand, resulting in reduced pollution during these hours. If the entire country is charging their cars every night then consumption is going to go through the roof and be high 24 hours per day, with higher pollution to boot... and that's not even considering that the the power companies will likely raise the night rates on their tariffs to take advantage and make more profit for themselves.

    This is typical political BS in my opinion. Pie in the sky with no real thought into how it will be achieved, or about the effect it will have on ordinary people.
     
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  9. Knoxstar

    Knoxstar

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    Actually the U.S. is well over the limit and imports electricity already and the U.K is at their limit from what I've read.
    Hydrogen powered ICE or electric motors are options but need more work to make it cost effective and any solution needs an infrastructure to support it Going with one makes sense in terms of $$ but I think the other concepts need to pitch their solutions.
    Having electricity as the power source for practically EVERYTHING makes me uneasy.
     
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  10. M-Bimmer

    M-Bimmer
    Still on 20” winter tyres. Back to 22” soon

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  11. Snailer

    Snailer

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    Just out of respectful curiosity, did you read through all above mentioned 46 points?
     
  12. JaimeDK

    JaimeDK
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    So much worries about electricity when the Mother Nature is providing a bunch of "free" and clean energy!, govs they should focus on renewable energies. You can't charge at home, ok, let's make all motorways/highways with charging lanes, there is a lot of things to do. Another thing if you're worried with the electric companies to rise the tarif is also easy, make them PUBLIC, I never understood how the H. someone has to get a lot of profit for something so basic as electricity. The band is necessary, just because otherwise companies will stuck to what is better for their pocket, the big companies sadly don't care about our health.
     
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  13. rubaru

    rubaru

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    So, my friend in Arizona can power his entire house normal-sized home on solar panels, and he generates enough electricity that he can sell some of it to the power company. Something tells me it wouldn't take a whole lot more for him to plug in his electric car every night and charge off the battery. Not to mention he could probably get away with installing a small wind turbine to pick up a good deal more.

    This baloney about relying on the power company to supply electricity to charge our cars doesn't make sense when there is plenty of solar and wind solutions out there. It's not that technology isn't keeping up with the interests, it's more like the people en masse are afraid to convert.
     
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  14. Paul Bennett

    Paul Bennett
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    The electric car is developing faster then the inferstructre to power them.
     
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  15. St3fan

    St3fan

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    That is simply not true. The emission regulations for passenger cars in China have been in pace with the European Union for like 10 years now, with some 1-2 years delay whenever the European introduces new and more strict rules. The number of electric powered and hybrid vehicles (cars, motorcycles, etc) on the streets of China is staggering. In some areas you are not allowed to register a car if it is not electric or plug-in hybrid. Research funding on battery technology and related fields has also been substantial for many years.

    The pollution problem in China is complicated. The geographic factors (location and shape of plains and mountains, climate, etc.), the insane amount of reliance on coal power, the traditional agriculture practice of burning crops in suburban and rural areas, the way Chinese people cook leads to more pollutant compared to Western kitchens, and the sheer number of mouths to feed in the country all play a part in the environmental issues in the country.

    In the case of UK planning to ban ICE, consider that if climate change hits, it is very likely that it will have a much greater impact on UK compared to other countries such as the US where a large amount of people still constantly deny all of these issues.


     
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  16. jonelsorel

    jonelsorel

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    Banning ICEs is pure politics (derived from the current psycho economics based on continuously increasing shareholder profit as the primary purpose of existence) with zero foundation in reality. Just like downing the Concorde (the plane had 1 crash in 34 years of use, btw; compare it to the 737). Textbook cases: smear the image so you can destroy "the enemy". Just ask anyone who actually works for a car manufacturer and has a clue. The biggest devil now is the 1.5(ish) liter diesel used on regular cars. Why? Well, first because they downsized it well beyond its optimum efficiency point, knowing it wouldn't meet "emission standards" at some point in the near future. Why are all the big players in the auto industry still developing 2 liter + diesels used on vans, but dropped smaller ones? :)

    Making an engine smaller while at the same time wanting to keep the same power output forces you to use better materials (costs go up) and more boost pressure, among others. More boost pressure increases intake air temperature; higher intake temps translates into higher exhaust temps, the primary reason for higher NOx emissions. How come up to Euro 5 it was all about CO2 emissions, and now that latest gen diesels give almost twice the mileage compared to petrol engines (and much less g of CO2/km) it's all about NOx? Funny. ;)

    Hope it isn't news that corporations buy "scientific" consensus when the stakes are high. What are the stakes now? The EU can't sleep at night because we're suffocating from air pollution, right? That why foods and drinks legally contain increasing amounts of chemicals nowadays? :)

    "Verdict
    For most cars built over the past 20 years that may still be in use, petrol is likely to be less polluting overall than diesel. Petrol cars also require less maintenance to keep them performing at that level. But new, well maintained diesel cars, built to the latest standards have similar emissions to new petrol vehicles."

    And twice the economy. Go figure who dies first, in a world where global demand for oil gets lower by the year, so much that producers have to cut output to keep crude price "reasonably" high. Oh, and if our politicians really do care about the stuff internal combustion engines emit, maybe they should look up and compare the tic tac toe skies we get today to those just 10, 15 years ago. Maybe check a couple of patents too (see below)? Or maybe not..

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ea...data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html

    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/its-the-sun-stupid

    https://www.nas.org/articles/Estimated_40_Percent_of_Scientists_Doubt_Manmade_Global_Warming

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US2867081

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US3069854

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090000186
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 10:45
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  17. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo

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    There was an interview with a chinese communist party member long ago where they said one of China govt goals is to buy 100% of worlds electric structure... wonder why they want electric cars...?
    I have a feeling the WW III began long ago, the weapons are just different =/
     
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  18. traind

    traind

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    Most people don't live in Arizona or any similar desert. Ever heard of UK weather, lol?
     
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  19. Grape-Juice

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    From the view of someone who is quite young (17) I'm not too worried about the ban of petrol and diesel cars in 2040 (Even though it's going to wreck Motorsport for me most likley) it had to happen at some point with the best selling car in america being a ford raptor that averages 10-15 MPG. The real worry is if they decide to tax sales of classic/older cars or cars made before the ban like crazy, then offer people loads to scrap them like they do in France that would be pretty sad and probably make getting a car more expensive for drivers just starting out (not that they'll no how to drive a stick shift :unsure:).

    Gonna be honest if I had a car that was lets say A Mazda RX-7 shell with an electric motor even tho it's really just a big RC car I'd be pretty happy and maybe stuff like that could be done when we jump to hydrogen and electric. Who knows what modd's and stuff there might be by 2040 electric cars might sound crazy.
     
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  20. Terry Rock

    Terry Rock

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    Isn't it a 'laugh' how everybody likes to beat up China for pollution, then run off touting how 'green' their zero emission car is?
    Why do you think they have such pollution?
    Do you think your zero emission car's battery fell from the sky?
    It was most likely made in one of those countries you like to hate.
    It takes a vast amount of resources to manufacture hybrid batteries and usually the initial purchase price is outside the capability of all but a very few. More efficiency...yes.
    An outright ban...no
     
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