The International Manufacturers Championship '67

[NPanic97]

As to this thread, I rarely pay attention to WIP, all too often vaporware.

In this case, since you state the mod will never be released, what is the purpose of the thread? "Hey, look at this great mod I'm making! Which you can never have."

Well I view it as a "what would be possible" kind of post. I have made the mistake of thinking that I can carry out such a project with just the help of a couple of people. Truth is, stuff like this takes a dedicated group of modders, each specialized in different areas, or one guy, a lot of passion and a LOT of time. Sadly, i don't think that there is enough interest or GTR2 modders for a project like this to be finished by a dedicated group. Which is a shame since GTR2 is pretty much the only game where a project like this is possible.

 

[jgf]

Well I view it as a "what would be possible" kind of post. I have made the mistake of thinking that I can carry out such a project with just the help of a couple of people. Truth is, stuff like this takes a dedicated group of modders, each specialized in different areas, or one guy, a lot of passion and a LOT of time. Sadly, i don't think that there is enough interest or GTR2 modders for a project like this to be finished by a dedicated group. Which is a shame since GTR2 is pretty much the only game where a project like this is possible.

Many players do not realize what it takes for an extensive mod, whether a sim or an rpg; and it is rare for one person to have sufficient ability in all areas to do it all, and rare to keep a team together long enough to complete such a mod. There were 6-8 people variously working on the P&G mod for nearly six years (not counting others with minimal contributions ...I only did the LOD screens), and it was never completed (in that more cars and championships were in the pipeline).

Perhaps the best aspect of this thread is you may find others willing to help. I would certainly d/l your mod if/when you finish it and get permissions to upload; it would be like P&G, appealing to a niche market, but P&G is about 15 years old and still popular.

I am working on an update of the GTR2 conversion of the GP37 mod (the original conversion handled like GT cars, they even had functional wings, not visible but adjustable in the setups; one car only carried 3L fuel, engine curves were off, tires were incorrect, LOD settings were odd, etc.). I also converted the Vanderbilt Cup mod for the GTR2 conversion (original creator said "do whatever you like with it"). And have hit snags I cannot correct; the Vanderbilt cars have modern drivers even though the period textures are in the folders (one person looked at this and said "wild cards were used" but they couldn't figure out how), other graphics issues require the original templates to fix, and they are nowhere to be found; still have to create sounds for three of the cars. And tweaking the physics is halted while I try to learn to correct AIW issues in the only viable test track. I doubt there will be much interest in this if I do complete it, but I'm having fun.

FWIW, probably the most complex and involved mods I know of are for the old Elder Scrolls games. There is "Morroblivion", and attempt to completely recreate Morrowind on the Oblvion engine (better graphics, better sound, better animations, better effects, etc.); this has been an ongoing project for about twelve years now, with probably never more than 6-8 people working on it at a time, and I doubt anyone currently at work on it was there even six years ago, much less at the start. Best I can tell the project is maybe 80% complete. There is also "Skywind" and "Skyblivion", attempts to create Morrowind and Oblivion on the Skyrim engine.

 

[IMC '67]

In this case, since you state the mod will never be released, what is the purpose of the thread? "Hey, look at this great mod I'm making! Which you can never have."

Where did I say it will never be released?

A big reason that I started the thread is to try and bring back some light on the "historical realism" aspects of sim racing. I actually see this as a "mission" although the prospects aren't looking good...

Also take note of what I wrote in the first post: "Either way, this thread should be an interesting read for anyone into racing games and 1960's sports car endurance racing."

And you can actually learn something from my posts.

 

[IMC '67]

Well yes

Why would I have to mention in the first post of my thread that I'm the guy behind the track updates in your mod? That's ridiculous. Anything else from my 25 years of 1967 modding history that I should have mentioned?

GTR2 is pretty much the only game where a project like this is possible.

Yes, very true.

 

[RaceLM24]

More game philosophy...

As mentioned in the game features above, a fairly good player will be able to match the real 1967 top drivers in the same car at each race event. A realistic and natural consequence of that is that if you drive a slower car with a less good 1967 AI co-driver, you'll be significantly faster than him just like Dan Gurney or Lorenzo Bandini would have been in real life. This also means that a less good player can still be competitive within a team if he chooses to drive a car with a less good 1967 co-driver. Another aspect is that the car physics (like weight and balance) and performance (like engine and brakes) of a car in game becomes less competitive the smaller the team is, which is achieved by having different sets of physics performance files allocated to the cars. As an example, I have made 3 different sets of files for the Ford GT40 MkIs, as the cars' lap times at the 1967 events did vary greatly depending on the size and funds of the teams (and of course its drivers).

Set 1 = Works (Factory team / Big private team) or (Medium private team at "hometrack")
Set 2 = Private (Medium private team) or (Small private team at "hometrack")
Set 3 = "Street" (Small private team)

View attachment 640196

An interesting side note about the J.W.A. GT40 MkI entries for Daytona and Sebring is that they were supposed to enter the new Mirage M1 but the car wasn't ready yet (and instead got its debut at Monza). I've read that the GT40 for the two U.S. races had to be hastily purchased and upgraded from a more or less street version MkI, making it one of many cool historical scenario challenges for the player to take on in the game.

This is also all very interesting, I like it.
A single thing: be careful not to distort the main features of the car models too much between a team and the other team with the same car model. For the rest this is an excellent choice, very realistic!



I state that what I will write below does not want to be absolutely a controversy but an optimistic vision of the situation, trying to give a little advice in the hope that it will be useful.

Your project is fantastic and I understood very well what your intentions are in reviving a golden age of racing while there is a developing work, the idea as I already wrote in another post previously is excellent.
But it must also be recognized that the people who pass from this topic to share impressions at work and follow him I think they expect to see an evolution of work, yes, but maybe even one day to hope to be able to run.

Now you have a great idea with your project and you have indicated the way for how a job must be done that wants to retrace the great and glorious runs of the past and from what I have read here and from the many views of the topic in a short time I think many hope that this great project can see the light sooner or later.
So to always stay with an optimistic vision of the situation, I would say: you should not have a team with excellent moders that can help you?
(Maybe you could call it: IMC '67 Team or something similar. With you at the head of everything, can it be an idea?)
With this the advantages for the realization could be manifold:
- More sharing of ideas and more ease of resolution of problems if they should arise during the realization of this work.
- More competent people also wants to say more knowledge and easier in obtaining authorizations.
- The time of release of the work would be reduced a lot and in the end having the possibility of seeing their work and the work of your team finished in addition to being appreciated by everyone. I think this in the end is the most beautiful satisfaction and reward that a modder can have.
Finally in my humble opinion in all this I see more advantages than the disadvantages, or am I wrong? Also because this work from how it has been described since the beginning can have all the credentials to become one of the great works done for GTR2.

I want to reiterate and I hope it could have been understood that my message wants to be only optimistic and sorry again for my bad English.

As I like to say to me:
in life you have to dream and you must also make dreaming!

And as always good luck to you and everyone for the continuation of this good job.


P.S. This site may be useful to you:

Photo Gallery - World Championship (page 2) - Racing Sports Cars

Photo Gallery - World Championship (page 2) - Racing Sports Cars

www.racingsportscars.com

 

[IMC '67]

I don't want to do this as a team for several reasons. However, I'm not opposed to receive help on a matter that I can't solve myself.

A single thing: be careful not to distort the main features of the car models too much between a team and the other team with the same car model.

A specific car model will of course keep its main characteristics, no matter if it's a works car or a private team car.

P.S. This site may be useful to you:

Yes, that site is my main source for car entries, drivers, car classes, lap times and race results. Reference photos can be found all over the internet but I've also bought several books on the subject over the years, including these two cool Japanese photo books that I can recommend to anyone with a specific interest in the 1967 WSC season.

 

[IMC '67]

The game has three races that uses the Le Mans type of start procedure, where the drivers are running to their cars after the flag has dropped. Besides Le Mans, it was also used at Sebring and Nürburgring in 1967.

The view that meets the player when entering the (WIP) track to start the Le Mans 24 hours adventure...

The drop of the French Tricolore is just seconds away... (The flag can be seen just above the front of the #4 Ford Mk IV).

(Yeah, I know the flag drop isn't coming in the right order but this is the closest to the real thing possible in the game).

 

[RaceLM24]

Beautiful images of Le Mans!

But can you insert all 54 racing participants? Because I know that many of those old-style circuits have a maximum of 36 cars.

The only note: the structures of the boxes etc should be more defined, to make the whole environment stand out, what do you think?
By chance, are you going to give him a new look at the 1967 style circuit? Or a coloring like the Le Mans of Virtual_LM?

 

[IMC '67]

But can you insert all 54 racing participants? Because I know that many of those old-style circuits have a maximum of 36 cars.

The Le Mans race will have 45 entries as I'm multiplying the real number of 1967 starters with 0.83 for all the race events (except Nürburgring) which is a good compromise due to that some of the tracks can't host a full field of cars like you said and I'm always looking for conformity between the races. Also, not all car models that participated in the 1967 season are available for the game. However, the most important reason is that the faster AI cars will be more obstructed overall by slower AI cars than the player will be, the more cars there are on track. This wouldn't be the same problem in more modern sportscar racing (like original GTR2), but in 1967 the differences in speed were so extreme between the fastest and slowest that it can be a big issue. Especially noticeable on long straights like the Mulsanne where the fastest cars hits 340 km/h and first tend to brake before lapping a slower car that only does 200 km/h, due to that GTR2 was designed for cars with much less speed differences. However, the AI's ability to lapping slower cars has been improved overall compared to how it was when I started to work on the game. One way to achieve this has been to compromise the AI racing line on some sections of the tracks to make more room for faster cars to get by.

The only note: the structures of the boxes etc should be more defined, to make the whole environment stand out, what do you think?

Not sure what you mean by "the structures of the boxes"?

By chance, are you going to give him a new look at the 1967 style circuit? Or a coloring like the Le Mans of Virtual_LM?

All eight tracks will get a look based on footage, pics, and weather reports from the real 1967 events.

 

[IMC '67]

More on Le Mans...

I've already posted these WIP screenshots elsewhere a couple of years ago, showing the Esses at night and the atmosphere I'm going for. I've also managed to incorporate amusement park sounds and a live concert with French 60's rock'n'roller Johnny Hallyday, which really adds to the whole experience when driving through that section.

 

[RaceLM24]

I meant the buildings: such as box, stands, houses, trees, billboards.
My question was: if you intended to increase the quality of the circuit from a graphic point of view (as for the Le Mans of Virtual_LM, to understand), always if it is possible? I hope this time I have explained myself better.

The ideal would be the layout of this circuit in 1967 configuration with the graphics of the Virtual_LM circuit.
Too bad that circuit has a configuration of the late 70s layout.

Instead, about the music in the area of the Dunlop/Tetre Rouge bridge is nice as an idea, one question: but does the music feel it only in the replays or even by the car that I have not understood?

 

[IMC '67]

Yes, I've done a lot on both graphics and objects but I'm also using stuff from the Virtua_LM track and especially the Le Grand Circuit track. Still a lot left to do though.

And yes, you can hear the music in cockpit when getting off the throttle for the Esses although it's more prominent from the trackside cameras.

WIP shot of the pit building and pit boxes:

 

[IMC '67]

The polesitter Ford Mk IV of McLaren/Donohue being chased down by second on the grid car of Spence/Hill in the Chaparral 2F...

 

[IMC '67]

Amusement area night scenes from one of the greatest motorsport films ever made...

Just realized it actually sounds like it could be the GREAT Screaming Lord Sutch performing so I might change out Johnny Hallyday in favour of him even though this was 1966.

Dig this WILD Lord Sutch show from the same year in France...

 

[RaceLM24]

Have you seen these two videos on YouTube? Maybe they can be useful to your work.

Video Le Mans
In this very nice video, you can see who sang in the 1967 concert.
(Maybe he was how you said Johnny Hallyday?)
Furthermore, the phases of the preparation for the race are also seen, with the part of the very detailed pit-line, as well as various parts of the race in several points of the circuit etc. Very nice as a video.

Video Sebring
In this video, on the other hand, it is noted that the race starts in style Le Mans, also many helmets of the drivers are well seen in the foreground (such as the orange one of Mike Spence on the Chaparral etc.)

 

[IMC '67]

I have those saved since before but I agree, very useful videos. And it indeed looks like it actually could be Johnny Hallyday so I guess I'll keep him then. Also cool to see actual footage from the April test although it's less relevant for the game.

 

[IMC '67]

And for those who thought the good Lord sounded sloppy as hell live, here's a much tighter studio recording of "Good Golly, Miss Molly" from a couple of years earlier...

 

[abrimaal]

Hundreds of people impatiently wait for release, the project is almost ready for public release.
One person says
"No, because this texture is my copyrighted work."

The whole project falls into oblivion.

 

[IMC '67]

I'm optimistic that I will get all the necessary permissions if that day ever comes.

Here's the view (WIP updates on cars and track) that meets the player at Sebring when entering the track to start the race. The Le Mans type starting grid works almost too well here as the AI competitors are extremely quick at getting away when the flag drops. For Le Mans and Nürburgring however, the start procedure isn't ideal as the cars have to be placed partly in the pitlane on those tracks, which make them a little hesitant in getting off the line. (At Sebring the cars line up on the other side of the yellow wall opposite the pitlane).

 

[abrimaal]

I've also managed to incorporate amusement park sounds and a live concert with French 60's rock'n'roller Johnny Hallyday, which really adds to the whole experience when driving through that section.

How do you add custom sounds to tracks?
I tried a few times to add a soundbox, the game crashed or it was mute.
Where do you define the file name and path to the sound file?