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Authorized Vendor Thanos AMC-AASD15A 6axis Servo Motion Controller

Tronicgr_6DOF

250RPM
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May 10, 2019
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Here some things to watch out when wiring 220v on USA... things that may save you from headaches on why your equipment goes haywire sometimes...


All these videos and measurements were done in an effort to find the reason behind the lower whine noise on my motors, and why proper phase grounding matters.

Thanks
Thanos
 

Tim Palmgren

100RPM
Mar 20, 2017
111
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This stuff on the grounding whine, if we are on 220V supply and not using a step-up converter will we have the same issue here?
 

sdubbin

250RPM
Premium
Nov 1, 2010
250
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How does the grounding work then in uk, we have these controllers plugged into a wall socket, and the earth pigtailed between each unit
 

Tronicgr_6DOF

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May 10, 2019
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This stuff on the grounding whine, if we are on 220V supply and not using a step-up converter will we have the same issue here?
According to US wiring information, the Neutral (System ground) should be same 0v as Equipment ground (local ground). But in the videos I show that this can be false sometimes for reasons like local ground (equipment) can have difference because of bad earth connection. In my case I measure 60v difference between earth and Neutral.

The whining noise is minimal or almost gone when use the two HOT wires (120v each) on the L1 and L2 of the AASD-15A I have and use the Neutral for ground. But then there is 60v difference from the local equipment ground of my house, so my PC computer ground can create ground loop allowing 60v passing through the metal housing of the actuator to the ground of the PC via the USB connector for example or any other metal device I attach on the simulator frame. This is low current voltage but still can cause devices go haywire if not even damaged in some cases!

A solution would be using the equipment ground (local) instead of the Neutral for ground (system) on the AASD-15A, but then the whining noise is worse and the two 120v phases have 60v offset related to the local ground so L1 gets 80v and L2 gets 160v unbalanced voltages even though they add up to 240v. This is the source of the terrible whining noise!!!!!

As I showed in on of my videos, using the power converters ends up in same unbalanced voltages since the power converter uses same local equipment ground...!

nema-10-30r-240-volt-30-amp-plug-wire-diagrams.jpg


2013-07-03_205842_receptacle_testing.jpg
 
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Tronicgr_6DOF

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May 10, 2019
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How does the grounding work then in uk, we have these controllers plugged into a wall socket, and the earth pigtailed between each unit
I imagine same issue could apply in countries that have pure 220v voltages if ground connection to earth is not solid.

Screen Shot 2014-07-20 at 1.22.19 am.png
 

metalnwood

250RPM
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Sep 6, 2018
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For countries that have a live, neutral and ground like the UK and here in NZ it would be illegal to use the ground instead of neutral. The ground is often called the safety ground an is only meant to take current in case of bad wiring saving you from an electrical shock.
 

Tronicgr_6DOF

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May 10, 2019
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For countries that have a live, neutral and ground like the UK and here in NZ it would be illegal to use the ground instead of neutral. The ground is often called the safety ground an is only meant to take current in case of bad wiring saving you from an electrical shock.
You misunderstood. I'm not asking people overseas to ditch their Neutral lines. Just to make sure the ground line is actual ground and that its wired properly on all equipment.
And this is mentioned in the servo manual too, usually you wire Hot wire to L1 and Neutral to L2. Then equipment ground to the motor chassis... its so simple in Europe...

But in US, you need two HOT wires connected to L1 and L2... Neutral would have no use, but if you wire that instead of the ground on the servo chassis you get no noise, but may get voltage potential between that and the equipment ground (60v in my case).
If you wire the equipment ground on the chassis, the two 120v hot wire phases are out of sync causing trilling noise on the PWM chopper of the servo drive....

I demonstrate the difference on my videos...
 

Crashtappen

25RPM
Jun 10, 2018
41
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Unfortunately not applicable here in Europe as we only have Neutral/Phase/Ground wires...
So you have no other way to wire these drivers and even with the best grounding you have that awfully noise.

I am not sure we will ever find the solution as it seems to be a design issue with components used.
 

Tronicgr_6DOF

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May 10, 2019
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Unfortunately not applicable here in Europe as we only have Neutral/Phase/Ground wires...
So you have no other way to wire these drivers and even with the best grounding you have that awfully noise.

I am not sure we will ever find the solution as it seems to be a design issue with components used.
Is there a power frequency setting for the AASD-15A? Perhaps the lower noise difference I have here is because of the 60hz mains we have. In Europe perhaps need to be set to 50hz? I remember some VFD inverters I worked with in the past had such setting.
 

metalnwood

250RPM
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Sep 6, 2018
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You misunderstood. I'm not asking people overseas to ditch their Neutral lines. Just to make sure the ground line is actual ground and that its wired properly on all equipment.
And this is mentioned in the servo manual too, usually you wire Hot wire to L1 and Neutral to L2. Then equipment ground to the motor chassis... its so simple in Europe...

But in US, you need two HOT wires connected to L1 and L2... Neutral would have no use, but if you wire that instead of the ground on the servo chassis you get no noise, but may get voltage potential between that and the equipment ground (60v in my case).
If you wire the equipment ground on the chassis, the two 120v hot wire phases are out of sync causing trilling noise on the PWM chopper of the servo drive....

I demonstrate the difference on my videos...
Hi, no problem, I know you know what you are talking about :) I had seen confusion about this somewhere else as well so just thought I would remind those not sure/getting confused.
 

Moe Ballout

50RPM
Jan 19, 2017
51
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Is the whistle that bad? Has anybody in the US tried this method and testing? I am planning on calling an electrician to install a 220v plug. If I can get some ideas to what potentially I should ask for to make this run the best way possible. I have no knowledge in electricity. Thank you for your hard work.
 

Ringorian

100RPM
Nov 7, 2015
137
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45
causing trilling noise on the PWM chopper of the servo drive....

I demonstrate the difference on my videos...
Can You Check If Your noise which You get is 10000hz when the servos are enabled . Just to be sure talking about the same whine .. You can use the App spectroid for example ..
 

sn4il

100RPM
Jan 16, 2018
125
49
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Very interesting. Thank you Tronicgr!
I'm facing this right now. I'm in US and live in apartment building. I'm not sure which route I should take when it comes to wiring my SFX control box.
I do have two (2) dedicated 220V lines in my apartment for air conditioners. These are Nema 6-15A. I believe these lines are rated 15A and are equipped with two (2) hot 120V, 120V and one (1) neutral.

What would be better in my case, utilizing only 110 line and using ac inverter or to run pc&wheel on 110V and
servos on 240v line?
I'm not sure if Nema 6-15A shares the ground with 110V line? These two lines are in the same enclosure.
Please advise.
Btw. I'm very interested in your controller. I will be contacting you.
 

iigator

25RPM
Aug 22, 2015
35
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Hi, I am executive engieer-shao from pt-acutuator, I running my factory for 5years, and , yes, pt1605 is the one you want. Do you want to take them for your rigs ?
Hi...could you give me more information of surge motion rig?..thanks
 

Tronicgr_6DOF

250RPM
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May 10, 2019
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Very interesting. Thank you Tronicgr!
I'm facing this right now. I'm in US and live in apartment building. I'm not sure which route I should take when it comes to wiring my SFX control box.
I do have two (2) dedicated 220V lines in my apartment for air conditioners. These are Nema 6-15A. I believe these lines are rated 15A and are equipped with two (2) hot 120V, 120V and one (1) neutral.

What would be better in my case, utilizing only 110 line and using ac inverter or to run pc&wheel on 110V and
servos on 240v line?
I'm not sure if Nema 6-15A shares the ground with 110V line? These two lines are in the same enclosure.
Please advise.
Btw. I'm very interested in your controller. I will be contacting you.
You could use one of the 110v phase (one of the hot wires) and a Neutral from that 220v line, for you PC and peripherals so everything will be in same circuit...

Just make sure you are familiar with the wiring of such thing, or if not ask an electrician to wire junction box etc. You don't want to mess up anything when working with 110v or 220v. Place extra fuse switches where possible...

Also I seen cases, where double outlets output different phase 110v so combining two of them you could get 220v where normally its not available...

quick240-240-from-120-volts.jpg

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/combining-two-120v-240v-connector

 
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Tronicgr_6DOF

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May 10, 2019
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Finished the firmware changes I needed. Below I'm testing the automatic park/standby function of the servos..


Thanks
Thanos
 

Moe Ballout

50RPM
Jan 19, 2017
51
16
31
Man i am so confused on how to power these up the correct way after all of this in the US. I have a converter coming but not sure. Can you specify what I should ask the electrician to do please? I was planning on doing a daisy chain to a plug on the servos then plugging it in to the converter. What should I do to eliminate any issues. Sorry I am complete noob when it comes to electricity
 

sn4il

100RPM
Jan 16, 2018
125
49
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You could use one of the 110v phase (one of the hot wires) and a Neutral from that 220v line, for you PC and peripherals so everything will be in same circuit...
I would assume its already wired this way??
 

Tronicgr_6DOF

250RPM
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May 10, 2019
479
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I would assume its already wired this way??
This is partially correct... but often the system ground (Neutral) is not connected locally in your home equipment ground. This will lead i potential differential between Neutral and equipment ground (60v difference at my home installation as shown on my videos).

Now, connecting together the Neutral and your local equipment ground, will not cause short or anything bad but if your local equipment ground is not really grounded to earth with burried copper rod, any device that might leak in your home, might try to seek path through that joint point between Neutral and equipment ground you just did... just saying...
 

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