Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Hiro Abe]

Here's my current set up. In the below pic you can see one of the ADXs in the center and then the two LFEs front and back. The second ADX is on the other side of the spine mounted in the same orientation. In my Nuke 1000, I made one of the channels set at a 180 phase. My thought is I don't want the two ADXs to work against each other since I was sending them both the same signal.

@Mr Latte I gave the TST another try but it just isn't my cup of tea. When I ran it through a frequency sweep, 50-60 hz was strongest but by then it was too buzzy for my taste. The ADXs are working really nicely with the lower frequencies. Currently, the LFEs are handling road bumps and gear change via ShakeIt. The ADXs are on RPM duty. It's the first time I've been able to implement engine beat/rpm with satisfaction. I'm probably going to play around with one ADX handling RPM and the other... um... don't know yet. Maybe road texture? Wheelslip? We shall see.

Fun playing with this stuff!

 

[anton_Chez]

@Grumpybeard I have a build log here somewhere. Check out "Simlab GT1 build log, included V3 mounting".

If there still aren't clear enough photo's in there I'll see if I can take a few more. Check that out first.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The dilemma I see is that we want rigidly mounted pedals for better brake feel, but just enough give for tactile feedback. Immersion vs. performance.

What if you took your rigid pedal mount and bolted the front of a pedal plate down to your mount with a bit of rubber in the mount, but still secure so it won't budge and then added something like the isolator in the link below to the rear of the plate and mounted your tranducers and pedals to the plate which has some ability to vibrate separate from the rest of the chassis.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F7EBR6U/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I realize that the isolator would eat some brake energy, but it might allow the pedal plate to be pretty solid and still capable of moving without moving the entire front end of your rig up and down.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr Latte]

Here's my current set up. In the below pic you can see one of the ADXs in the center and then the two LFEs front and back. The second ADX is on the other side of the spine mounted in the same orientation. In my Nuke 1000, I made one of the channels set at a 180 phase. My thought is I don't want the two ADXs to work against each other since I was sending them both the same signal.

@Mr Latte I gave the TST another try but it just isn't my cup of tea. When I ran it through a frequency sweep, 50-60 hz was strongest but by then it was too buzzy for my taste. The ADXs are working really nicely with the lower frequencies. Currently, the LFEs are handling road bumps and gear change via ShakeIt. The ADXs are on RPM duty. It's the first time I've been able to implement engine beat/rpm with satisfaction. I'm probably going to play around with one ADX handling RPM and the other... um... don't know yet. Maybe road texture? Wheelslip? We shall see.

Fun playing with this stuff!

The TST209 isn't maybe so good with the lower end which may give it an output character that could be seen as a peaky midbass. Thanks for the feedback and in this case your own preference for the ADX. If at some point you can it would be good to get your views on a comparison of them. Might help others and if we can then improve the output via EQ.

The TST239 is a bit stronger than the T209 but maybe not a great deal more although most people that I talked with or have done a dual role based install have used the TST239.

Look forward at some point in going into more depth with Shakeit and its various effects.
I too find it fun exploring or doing tests with the tactile to help improve the immersion.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Geeze.... This thread has a lot of information in it! Apparently all "my" ideas were just reinventing the wheel, but that shouldn't surprise me. I've learned a few things along the way and I'm only half way through the thread.

I have some ideas on how to fabricate some things, but now I need to rethink my ideas, and get my metal cutting blade back on my bandsaw.

 

[Grumpybeard]

@Mr Latte @Hiro Abe @anton_Chez

Thanks a lot fellas for taking the time for guidance and pics, really helped. Over the weekend I moved my BL Mini LFEs from corners of heavy duty rig. Took my drill to the seat and mounted 2 buttkickers directly underneath, each to a length of 40x200mm profile running ass to thigh direction. The 2 others I mounted directly underneath my pedal plate, each on 40x150mm profile that runs front to back. Pedal plate itself sits on rig via 4 small rubber washers. Overall really pleased with the result and a big improvement - actually get to feel the kickers, especially under the seat.

Which leads me to next step - Im sure there's room for improvement with tuning. Is Shakeit the best alternative to SImvibe - I had a quick look, installing Simhuib. I notice there are 2 Shakeit "apps" - "std" and "Skakeit Bass". I tried the "bass" one, UI is more intuitive than Simvibe. Would this be the one to spend time with and tune? Thanks very much again.

 

[Hiro Abe]

@Grumpybeard Glad to hear of the improvements! I've been playing with ShakeIt for the past few weeks and must admit I really like it. There is another one you can give a go - SimShaker Wheels. There's a big support thread here at RD. It is pretty intuitive when trying out a basic layout. It becomes very flexible if you really want to tweak to the point of customizing .wav files for various effects. I used SimShaker Wheels for a bit and have no complaints. I just find ShakeIt suits my needs especially since I'm not employing a ton of different effects. Plus, since I use SimHub's dashboard to feed an Android tablet, I figure why have yet another piece of software running.

 

[anton_Chez]

As a Mini LFE user, stick with ShakeIt. You aren't able to tune the hz correctly in SSW and you need to do that to avoid the piston knocking you will eventually run into while tuning profiles. ShakeIt bass shaker is what you want, the other one is for rumble motors in rims and pedals, I think.

 

[scottiedawg66]

Here is a tutorial video I just did on configuring effects in Shake It, and a demo as well. Give it a look! I would sure love to compare settings with folks here.

 

[Magiashkii]

The dilemma I see is that we want rigidly mounted pedals for better brake feel, but just enough give for tactile feedback. Immersion vs. performance.

What if you took your rigid pedal mount and bolted the front of a pedal plate down to your mount with a bit of rubber in the mount, but still secure so it won't budge and then added something like the isolator in the link below to the rear of the plate and mounted your tranducers and pedals to the plate which has some ability to vibrate separate from the rest of the chassis.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F7EBR6U/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I realize that the isolator would eat some brake energy, but it might allow the pedal plate to be pretty solid and still capable of moving without moving the entire front end of your rig up and down.

Thoughts?

Here is how I mounted my pedals with isolators on my rig which I use with dbox...

 

[Hiro Abe]

@Magiashkii I'm curious... how is the fore/aft flex with your isolators? I'm thinking especially when you are braking and the level of force we sim racers apply to load cells.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Mr Latte @Hiro Abe @anton_Chez

Thanks a lot fellas for taking the time for guidance and pics, really helped. Over the weekend I moved my BL Mini LFEs from corners of heavy duty rig. Took my drill to the seat and mounted 2 buttkickers directly underneath, each to a length of 40x200mm profile running ass to thigh direction. The 2 others I mounted directly underneath my pedal plate, each on 40x150mm profile that runs front to back. Pedal plate itself sits on rig via 4 small rubber washers. Overall really pleased with the result and a big improvement - actually get to feel the kickers, especially under the seat.

Which leads me to next step - Im sure there's room for improvement with tuning. Is Shakeit the best alternative to SImvibe - I had a quick look, installing Simhuib. I notice there are 2 Shakeit "apps" - "std" and "Skakeit Bass". I tried the "bass" one, UI is more intuitive than Simvibe. Would this be the one to spend time with and tune? Thanks very much again.

I personally await the extensive upgrade Shakeit has coming with excitment. Already it is good but the upgrade will bring even more flexibility, creativity and control for the effects. In contrast, SSW in using .wav opened the door for building unique or specific felt sensations within effects. I still yet cannot achieve with a single layer in Shakeit the detailed yet powerful feel I have for deceleration with my own custom .wav for SSW but ultimately the SSW software does not offer many options/settings for controlling or altering how the effect operates with the telemetry. As for Simvibe, I don't see many reasons in 2019 with it now and it not really improving over the years why someone would prefer it over Shakeit or for that matter go out and spend $90 on it.

I do think @Wotever should consider clearer renaming to make the two versions of Shakeit more understood. Perhaps something simple, maybe like Shakeit RPM (for motors) and Shakeit Bass (for tactile).

When the new update comes I do want to spend time and have a very deep look into Shakeit, part of this will be monitoring what effects settings do so we can better understand them. Also to spend time with people in the community interested in seeking to find or help develop profiles for effects and tuning. This can work on the various levels of tactile hardware. Be it the most basic to the most advanced.

 

[scottiedawg66]

I'm in for some testing / experimenting with my simple front and rear 2 channel set up

 

[Magiashkii]

@Magiashkii I'm curious... how is the fore/aft flex with your isolators? I'm thinking especially when you are braking and the level of force we sim racers apply to load cells.

There is a slight flex... But nothing that you can't get use to and it's not noticeable when driving and braking hard. The immersion is so much better when isolation is used to allow the tactile to actual work

 

[SOLO59]

I decided to give Shakeit (Simhub) a try today. Really happy I did! After testing and creating a profile, I was really impressed!

I'm only using 5 effects on x2 AURA PRO's (Both mounted verticle on seat-back) in Shakeit. And I'm very satisfied with it so far.

I've created only one profile, and so far testing the Boxer Cup car and FRX17, I've used the same profile for both AMS and R3E and I do not feel like I need to create multiple profiles per game. At least for now. It's still early stages for me. I'll be testing my other Sims next week.
Using the acceleration /deceleration G Forces effects is pure immersive! And the wheel slide effect with gaswheelslide effect gives me a great positive feel of what the tires are doing. Makes me focus a little more.

I'm still using Simvibe though. I just can't part ways with their Engine/Harmonic so w/load and suspension bumps/vertical surges effects. I'm using those effects on 2 ADX's (under pedals & under seat).





I've tested other effects in Shakeit, and so far I'm sticking with those five for now. They just go so well together and compliment each other for my benefit on track! Combined with my Simvibe setup, its maaaad immersive! Amazingly, none of my effects swallow each other. I can clearly feel the bumps, engine, gear, impacts, g forces and wheel slide - gaswheelslide spread nicely across 4 shakers!

Thank you @Wotever This software has made a fantastic addition to my bass shaker setup.
Watching scottiedawg66 video on Shakeit kinda reeled me in!

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Is the Behringer EPQ304 a good amplifier to power 4 Mini LFE's?

I'm starting to look into this, and I started by reading this (very interesting) topic, but would such a setup suffice? Or are there other cards to be played here?

It's for an 80/20 rig, and I'm capable of mounting the 1U/2U frame on it.

 

[scottiedawg66]

Is the Behringer EPQ304 a good amplifier to power 4 Mini LFE's?

I'm starting to look into this, and I started by reading this (very interesting) topic, but would such a setup suffice? Or are there other cards to be played here?

It's for an 80/20 rig, and I'm capable of mounting the 1U/2U frame on it.

I'd say go for more wattage and the DSP functions of the NX series is a really nice feature.

 

[Mr Latte]

Is the Behringer EPQ304 a good amplifier to power 4 Mini LFE's?

I'm starting to look into this, and I started by reading this (very interesting) topic, but would such a setup suffice? Or are there other cards to be played here?

It's for an 80/20 rig, and I'm capable of mounting the 1U/2U frame on it.

Few affordable 4 channel amps are available, if you want a 4 channel amp.
It lacks a bit in wattage but to avoid having to run the amp at full output constantly you can use other hardware to act as a preamp. This would boost the soundcard output meaning you can get away with less wattage for the primary amplification.

Art Splimix4 is a good affordable option or a mixer unit like the Behringer HA6000 are both ideal for this and models I can vouch for.

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

I'd say go for more wattage and the DSP functions of the NX series is a really nice feature.

But, to run a proper 4 way setup, I'll need 4 channels, right? Or am I missing something?

Few affordable 4 channel amps are available, if you want a 4 channel amp.
It lacks a bit in wattage but to avoid having to run the amp at full output constantly you can use other hardware to act as a preamp. This would boost the soundcard output meaning you can get away with less wattage for the primary amplification.

Art Splimix4 is a good affordable option or a mixer unit like the Behringer HA6000 are both ideal for this and models I can vouch for.

I'll look into those options, thanks for the quick response. It doesn't have to be the cheapest option, but it has to be reasonable as well. I thought, 4 Mini LFE's, I'll need 4 channels

 

[Mr Latte]

But, to run a proper 4 way setup, I'll need 4 channels, right? Or am I missing something?



I'll look into those options, thanks for the quick response. It doesn't have to be the cheapest option, but it has to be reasonable as well. I thought, 4 Mini LFE's, I'll need 4 channels

Well, perhaps (2) two channel amps for 4 channels might work.