Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Atak_Kat]

Great work, I can see you also fly.
Do you use simshaker for aviators??

Hi. Thanks for the comments. It is working great so far.
No, I haven't used simhaker for aviators. I have heard about it (didn't know the name) but never went down that path yet. Will check it out and give it a go. With summer coming, I expect even less time on the sim, but always looking to tinker with something.
Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I'm getting ready to set that up myself and would be happy to hear any pointers on it. I've owned it for about 3 years and never set it up.

What flight sims do you fly? Depending on them, you need a different software.
We might move the discussion on your own thread in order to keep this clear of jets and rotor heads

 

[Atak_Kat]

Kydex should give you something in a thickness you want is still stiff but not brittle like the plastic you are using. With Kydex you could probably form the recesses in to it directly as well, its pretty easy to work with like that.

I was able to get ahold of some sheets of 30cmx60cm Kydex. Very interesting stuff. Never heard of it before you commented, but the guy I bought it from gave me a quick demonstration in his garage (knife maker). Really impressive. There's probably lots of uses for it for any 'DIY' person, so I bought several sheets of it to have around.

Not sure when, but I'm going to try to mold a back piece that has more curvature to it, and also some lower back support. My back doesn't do well after a few hours in these seats that are too hollow in the lower back area. I pack that area with some foam behind the padding just to give a bit of support, but I think I can mold something with the Kydex that be better and give some lower back support as well. Will write another update as I progress, but won't likely be anytime soon.

 

[RCHeliguy]

What flight sims do you fly? Depending on them, you need a different software.
We might move the discussion on your own thread in order to keep this clear of jets and rotor heads

You can tell from my avatar that I'm a rotor head. I've flown RC Helicopters for years and I recently got my AH-64D on DCS. I have flown the Huey a bunch and also have the Hind. I've spent a bit of time in the A-10 and F-18, but have a pile of other planes that I've ignored.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

You can tell from my avatar that I'm a rotor head. I've flown RC Helicopters for years and I recently got my AH-64D on DCS. I have flown the Huey a bunch and also have the Hind. I've spent a bit of time in the A-10 and F-18, but have a pile of other planes that I've ignored.

For dcs, use simshaker for aviators, free software, and you can use up to 2 shakers.
Paying about 22e for simshaker sound module, provides support up to 6 shakers.
In my opinion, flight sims benefit more from haptic than simracing

 

[metalnwood]

I was able to get ahold of some sheets of 30cmx60cm Kydex. Very interesting stuff. Never heard of it before you commented, but the guy I bought it from gave me a quick demonstration in his garage (knife maker). Really impressive. There's probably lots of uses for it for any 'DIY' person, so I bought several sheets of it to have around.

Not sure when, but I'm going to try to mold a back piece that has more curvature to it, and also some lower back support. My back doesn't do well after a few hours in these seats that are too hollow in the lower back area. I pack that area with some foam behind the padding just to give a bit of support, but I think I can mold something with the Kydex that be better and give some lower back support as well. Will write another update as I progress, but won't likely be anytime soon.

Nice! very glad I could help.

 

[Atak_Kat]

I was able to get ahold of some sheets of 30cmx60cm Kydex. Very interesting stuff. Never heard of it before you commented, but the guy I bought it from gave me a quick demonstration in his garage (knife maker). Really impressive. There's probably lots of uses for it for any 'DIY' person, so I bought several sheets of it to have around.

Not sure when, but I'm going to try to mold a back piece that has more curvature to it, and also some lower back support. My back doesn't do well after a few hours in these seats that are too hollow in the lower back area. I pack that area with some foam behind the padding just to give a bit of support, but I think I can mold something with the Kydex that be better and give some lower back support as well. Will write another update as I progress, but won't likely be anytime soon.

I made a bit of progress, earlier than expected.


- The plastic was more cracked than I thought. Almost in 2 pieces. Peanut butter caps survived though. Just to note, the crack is not from the transducers/tactile. I just used a brittle plastic that didn't do well with the tight fit and flex during braking etc.

- I added some sturdy styrofoam with a profile to give a LOT more support to the lower back. Time will tell, but test fitting to the seat seams to be a much better support for my back.

- The star of the show is the Kydex sheet. Molded here to conform to the profile of the foam and support that will go behind it. Very easy to work with if you have a heat gun. This is very mild compared to what can be done with this product. Probably something similar could be done with some other sort of plastic, but I'm very happy with this.

- Here is the Kydex fit on top of the foam/styrofoam backing. I intentionally curved the top (far right in the pic) upwards because the seat curves a bit at that point as well.

- Here is the exciters (with peanut butter caps installed), glued to the kydex sheets. Next step is to let the glue dry/cure and then try to fit it into the covering.
- There is no way this will all fit into the standard cloth covering with the higher profile. So I'll have to 'make it fit' temporarily (where there's a will, there's a way), and then later will have to get another covering made to fit the new profile.

 

[Atak_Kat]

The next steps require a bit of bravery and acceptance to modify the covering
- the cloth is quite flexible, but there are MANY velcro strips sewn to the fabric and these velcro strips make it almost impossible to strech/fit the fabric around my new insert. They are sewn to the fabric, and make it completely inflexible to stretch when trying to insert the new pieces.
- so, many (most) of the velcro was removed by cutting the stitching. Much of it is saved for later as you will see. In reality, there is not such a need for so much velcro to attach it to the seat, anyway.

All the items were squeezed into the covering, but of course the added thickness creates an issue. I have simply stretched the fabric as much as I dared, then strung velcro pieces (reused from above comments) across the back to keep it together. There is of course a gap in the material , but is no issue for me since it will not be seen. There is still some of the original velcro (sewn to the fabric) near the top of the insert (left side of the image) that clings to the back of the seat/bucket when inserted. So it's still held in place even if there's not as much attachment as there was before. There is still more left-over velcro I can use to secure it to the seat/bucket at the lower levels (right side of the image) if needed, but I'm pretty sure it will be fine as it is.

Here it is from the top, and looks quite OK for me. Fabric has stretched and fit just fine from the business side.

Quick test fit, and it seems good. I was originally thinking I'd need to get a new covering made/sewn, but at this point I'm quite happy with the result I have.

DEFINETLY much more support to the lower back. Time will tell if there are any other issues with this, but so far it is much better than before.

Next is simply to reconnect the leads from the amp and have fun.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Installed today a couple of dayton exciters I had around into the pedal plate, just a quick test with 3M VHB and no isolation between the plate and chassis.
No good for left/right bumps, but very nice for engine rpms and parametric

 

[Elaphe]

View attachment 559143

I have just ordered the same bucket seat. Why didn't you just screwed the shakers directly to the back of the seat?

 

[Atak_Kat]

I have just ordered the same bucket seat. Why didn't you just screwed the shakers directly to the back of the seat?

That was the initial plan, and seems to be what most people do. But:
1. I prefer when things are aesthetically cleaner. This was probably the main reason, if I'm honest. I wanted to avoid the wires and exciters being so blatantly visible. What I did learn though, is that 3M VHB tape is really impressive stuff. Anyone who's nervous to drill their seat, should try this tape (or similar) first.
2. I had zero experience with exciters and I wanted to avoid a situation where the effect would be too weak. I couldn't understand how good transfer of the effects could go through the seat padding, considering their low operating wattage.
3. I find the whole 'isolation' job to be very annoying, personally. The longer the path the vibration has to travel to get to your body, but more chance for vibrations or rattling somewhere else. The closer to your body the transducers are, the less likelihood that you need to worry about isolation. You can also run the transducers at much lower volume from the amp, giving you more headroom for some specific effects, if you want.
4. I'm a sucker for DIY jobs when I get an idea in my head.

 

[Elaphe]

That was the initial plan, and seems to be what most people do. But:
1. I prefer when things are aesthetically cleaner. This was probably the main reason, if I'm honest. I wanted to avoid the wires and exciters being so blatantly visible. What I did learn though, is that 3M VHB tape is really impressive stuff. Anyone who's nervous to drill their seat, should try this tape (or similar) first.
2. I had zero experience with exciters and I wanted to avoid a situation where the effect would be too weak. I couldn't understand how good transfer of the effects could go through the seat padding, considering their low operating wattage.
3. I find the whole 'isolation' job to be very annoying, personally. The longer the path the vibration has to travel to get to your body, but more chance for vibrations or rattling somewhere else. The closer to your body the transducers are, the less likelihood that you need to worry about isolation. You can also run the transducers at much lower volume from the amp, giving you more headroom for some specific effects, if you want.
4. I'm a sucker for DIY jobs when I get an idea in my head.

Very good expanation. I am installing Reckhorn BS-200i, which are larger than exciters, so I think I will installed them like the Rockwood I had before: directly to the seat, 2 on the lower back and 2 on the sides. I don't care about the cables. However, drilling this seat is not something that I love to do, so I had also considered using double-side tape by Wurth, which is a very expensive tape I use for my job, but I'm not sure if it would withstand the constant vibrations and the weight of these shakers.

 

[Atak_Kat]

so I had also considered using double-side tape by Wurth, which is a very expensive tape I use for my job, but I'm not sure if it would withstand the constant vibrations and the weight of these shakers.

It’s worth a try? Maybe just find another scrap piece and mount one of them completely upside down with the tape to test it? Or even just under the seat (as a test) with a blanket or pillow below it in case it falls? Run it for several hours (or more) and find out what happens? If it fails you can at least control how and where it would fall before risking it mounted to your seat back/sides.

I would more wonder if the curvature of the seat would create an issue. Where you want to mount them might not be completely flat so the tape can do the best job it can.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I had 4 dayton exciter attached using 3M VHB, two remain on place, under my thighs, the two left, which were placed by the sides, fell off after several months.
All of them placed on flat areas of the bucket seat.
just my experience

 

[Elaphe]

I need advice. I have bought 5 Reckhorn BS200i to replace all my Rockwoods. One will be under the pedals, with its own mono amplifier. The other amplifier I have is stereo and it will manage the other 4 shakers on my bucket seat. I have always had 2 on the lower back (one on the left and one of the right, very close to each other) and 2 on the sides of the backet. So, I had Simhub configured for stereo effects. However, with my new bucket it's almost imposible to install the 2 shakers on the back like that, so I would have to place both centered vertically, one lower and one higher. That's one of the ideas. I could also place one under my seat and one on the back. In all of these setups I suppose I would have to configure Simhub for mono effects although I think it's also possible to send the front wheels effect to one couple of shakers and the effects on the rear to the other. Is this true? Which one would be your choice?

 

[Reprobate]

Wanted an idea of what you think of setup I’ve ordered, will have to wait for it to get delivered to test:
2x BK LFE rear left rear right both under seat on the extrusion
2x BK mini LFE front left front right both under pedal extrusion
Amps - T.Amp 800 - 500w per channel @4ohms
T.Amp 1200 - 1200w per channel @4ohms
Sound blaster X4

Going on a P1X with SFX150

 

[anton_Chez]

I'd get rid of the BK Mini's and get a Clarke TST unit. Put one BK under seat and one under pedal and combine the TST on the seat.

 

[Reprobate]

I'd get rid of the BK Mini's and get a Clarke TST unit. Put one BK under seat and one under pedal and combine the TST on the seat.

Thanks that's the second recommendation of the TST, I'll have to grab a couple and run 6 units as the rest have already been shipped as far as I am aware

 

[Peter Winkler]

TST is such a great device

 

[Greg Latty]

What buttkicker is the TST closest competitor as far as performance ?. Bk advanced?