Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[RCHeliguy]

Having the BK-CT and TST at both the front and rear of my rig is allowing me for a much more balanced feeling. Everything matches. The effects are at the same frequencies and it is absolutely better.

@mgh24 In answer to your question, I'm running a full set of effects to the foot plate, but some of them are dialed back a bit. Importantly I have wheel slip, but also engine rpm, gear shift, rumble, impact etc.. With the two transducers working together I can get separate effects at an appropriate level for my feet that are not overwhelming or bothersome and just add to the immersion. I just started to dial everything in this morning and the results are good, but I'm sure I can improve them over time.

@Mr Latte While my front mount is working satisfactorily and feels good, I am losing a LOT more energy into the frame of my chassis with the BK-CT up front. It wasn't noticeable with the Aura's or the TST by itself, but the lower frequencies are definitely coming through the Sorbothane. I would love to try your Race Bass mounts up there, especially given how easy it would be to modify my foot plate mechanism to use them.

The TST329 is plenty under my footplate and the TST429 does have more authority at my seat, although I still have trouble recommending the spend of the 429 over the 329.

My Epq304 amp is arriving next week, and all the cables for the t.rack DSP boxes and the 8 pole Neutrik connectors are here. The Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 exciters may not arrive until mid November, so it will be a while before I can make use of anything I have so far.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi, good to see you get this phase of your new tactile installed.
I've not been in the best form this week so reducing my time spent on the forums.

 

[Gregb143]

Yes, general profile that works okay on most sims but then also specific car and sim profiles. Also offering people access to a club/membership that covers guides/tutorials on how to better make and share profiles with others. Possible a way members can vote on what profiles I then also work on as well. I also want to do libraries, so for say a specific effect (road vibrations) a user can pick from 5 variants that feel operate a bit different to build their own profiles.

Ideally to offer something that currently does not exist and make tactile much more accessible and enjoyable to a high standard.

When do you expect to realese your tactile solution? I would love to be able to buy a full suction in one place that I can attqch to my rig and would happily pay a subscription to have access to profiles. I would like to know more about what you have planned before I start buying hardware on my own only to replace it. I currently have a 6 dof platform from pt actuator, gs5 seat and g belt. Have sim 3d rumble motors on my pedals and a butt kicker lfe attached to gs5 seat which I only have setup for engine rumble. Would really like to take my haptic to the next level but am overwhelmed trying to decipher these posts.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Hi, good to see you get this phase of your new tactile installed.
I've not been in the best form this week so reducing my time spent on the forums.

I hope you are feeling well soon!

As usual you were right. Despite my initial thoughts that I didn't need heavy weight transducers up in front it really balances the effects out so that everything feels uniform and importantly matched. When the front and back are doing different things, you pick up on that and it feels off. Both sides are in unison now

That said, the BK-CT's were powerful but the impacts were initially not right. After I moved the front mount point back so that the BK-CT was centered between the mount points I got the impacts I've enjoyed at my seat

The TST 329 feels a bit more efficient in this configuration so I dialed it back a bit. Overall I'm now happy with what I'm getting out of the respective transducers.

 

[mgh24]

Having the BK-CT and TST at both the front and rear of my rig is allowing me for a much more balanced feeling. Everything matches. The effects are at the same frequencies and it is absolutely better.

@mgh24 In answer to your question, I'm running a full set of effects to the foot plate, but some of them are dialed back a bit. Importantly I have wheel slip, but also engine rpm, gear shift, rumble, impact etc.. With the two transducers working together I can get separate effects at an appropriate level for my feet that are not overwhelming or bothersome and just add to the immersion. I just started to dial everything in this morning and the results are good, but I'm sure I can improve them over time.

...

That makes a lot of sense to me when you describe it like that. I think I was getting hung up thinking I would want ABS effects at the front, and TC at the rear, but it makes sense that you would tune the strength of the effect depending on location of transducer, rather than eliminate it - if I am understanding the approach.

I have been driving in AC a lot lately, which does not support ABS or TC effects. I'll have to pull up ACC and check out those effects.

Thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

I have been reworking how to apply certain effects and as to what sensations to give them. Making excellent progress with improving general road/feel that isn’t overbearing or annoying yet very active. Keen to get this to offer enjoyable feeling of connection with the road but it not restrict felt wheel slip or other deeper/heavier response of the chassis from G-Loads

Having it work with small Road Vibes and Road Rumble for dips,bumps in road surface and excellent detail from kerbs and off track. Other effects are then combined with these.

Look at the activity of the green here to the orange

The Orange has very little output most of the time but activates with larger responses as well as off track and some curbs with a nice strong output. So it’s quite restrictive in the amount of immersion it offers from the primary track surface compared to Green even though it offered excellent felt sensations for curbs/grass.

 

[Gregb143]

I have been reworking how to apply certain effects and as to what sensations to give them. Making excellent progress with improving general road/feel that isn’t overbearing or annoying yet very active. Keen to get this to offer enjoyable feeling of connection with the road but it not restrict felt wheel slip or other deeper/heavier response of the chassis from G-Loads

Having it work with small Road Vibes and Road Rumble for dips,bumps in road surface and excellent detail from kerbs and off track. Other effects are then combined with these.

Look at the activity of the green here to the orange

The Orange has very little output most of the time but activates with larger responses as well as off track and some curbs with a nice strong output. So it’s quite restrictive in the amount of immersion it offers from the primary track surface compared to Green even though it offered excellent felt sensations for curbs/grass.

I have been reading as much as I can about your advice on shakers with the gs5 seat. I see you recommend getting 8 exciters. I believe the below link is the product you recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PY670GC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_71B6NND5H4AAD0XSRHRP

I cannot find a post of anybody who has actually taken your advice on this and how they set it up. I am new to this but after reading how immersive tactile can be when done right from your posts to simulate g forces and traction I would really like to give it a go. Can you please recommend which receiver and Amp you recommend to use with the exciter? I know you recommend the Behringer EPQ304 but am unsure if that is what you would use with the exciters and if I can hook all 8 to this unit or need 2 of them? What other hardware do I need to purchase to get moving on this? Also, do you know of anybody who has successfully implemented this to their gs5 and if there is a report or pictures or a diagram of where they put the exciters and how they attached them? Also, what layered shake profile that has been successful?

I really appreciate any feedback and would happily pay a consulting fee to help me get on the right track.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I have been reading as much as I can about your advice on shakers with the gs5 seat. I see you recommend getting 8 exciters. I believe the below link is the product you recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PY670GC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_71B6NND5H4AAD0XSRHRP

I cannot find a post of anybody who has actually taken your advice on this and how they set it up. I am new to this but after reading how immersive tactile can be when done right from your posts to simulate g forces and traction I would really like to give it a go. Can you please recommend which receiver and Amp you recommend to use with the exciter? I know you recommend the Behringer EPQ304 but am unsure if that is what you would use with the exciters and if I can hook all 8 to this unit or need 2 of them? What other hardware do I need to purchase to get moving on this? Also, do you know of anybody who has successfully implemented this to their gs5 and if there is a report or pictures or a diagram of where they put the exciters and how they attached them? Also, what layered shake profile that has been successful?

I really appreciate any feedback and would happily pay a consulting fee to help me get on the right track.

I think the recommend shakers are Dayton Audio Thrusters, as a rule of thumb, but I might be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

I have been reworking how to apply certain effects and as to what sensations to give them. Making excellent progress with improving general road/feel that isn’t overbearing or annoying yet very active. Keen to get this to offer enjoyable feeling of connection with the road but it not restrict felt wheel slip or other deeper/heavier response of the chassis from G-Loads

Having it work with small Road Vibes and Road Rumble for dips,bumps in road surface and excellent detail from kerbs and off track. Other effects are then combined with these.

Look at the activity of the green here to the orange

The Orange has very little output most of the time but activates with larger responses as well as off track and some curbs with a nice strong output. So it’s quite restrictive in the amount of immersion it offers from the primary track surface compared to Green even though it offered excellent felt sensations for curbs/grass.

This looks very interesting. I was considering a couple of dedicated shakers for road texture Front/Rear as I could never get the effect to layer well with everything else.

I am quite happy with my rumble effects, but does what you've been working on do away with that to provide a solution for road surface and kerbs/grass in one effect?

 

[Mr Muntarg]

Good afternoon Guys

I came here after watching a few you tube videos and planning a cheap tactile setup .
After reading this thread and the invaluable experience of the members here i have decided the go for a more in depth system

Could somebody just confirm I am heading in a sensible direction,

So far on order

-Phase 1-
NX3000d
Dayton BST-1 ( under pedals)
Buttkicker LFE Large ( under seat spanning rails)
Startech 7.1 usb sound card

To order

-Phase 2-
4 x DAEX32EP-4 ( 2 base of set - 2 back of seat)
2 x Nobsound cheapish amplfiers

Thanks for your help
Dan

 

[anton_Chez]

I would ditch the Dayton and just try the LFE on its own first. I reckon that's a waste of time combining those 2 units. I'd also only consider the 3000D if you're planning on getting another LFE. A 1000D should be able to power 2 of them but the 3000D will give a little more headroom if you think you need that. Also if it's the LFE and not the Concert you won't get as much out of the amp as the output at 4ohms is lower than when it's at 2ohm. Regardless, if you're only planning on running a single LFE, the 1000D in Bridge mode will be easily capable.

The exciter route sounds about right if you wanted to go down that path. But I'd honestly not bother with the BST-1. Amps with DSP are recommended for the exciters too, but if it were me I'd probably go down the Nobsound path and just limit hz in Simhub.

 

[Mr Muntarg]

I would ditch the Dayton and just try the LFE on its own first. I reckon that's a waste of time combining those 2 units. I'd also only consider the 3000D if you're planning on getting another LFE. A 1000D should be able to power 2 of them but the 3000D will give a little more headroom if you think you need that. Also if it's the LFE and not the Concert you won't get as much out of the amp as the output at 4ohms is lower than when it's at 2ohm. Regardless, if you're only planning on running a single LFE, the 1000D in Bridge mode will be easily capable.

The exciter route sounds about right if you wanted to go down that path. But I'd honestly not bother with the BST-1. Amps with DSP are recommended for the exciters too, but if it were me I'd probably go down the Nobsound path and just limit hz in Simhub.

I had suspected this would be the advice regarding the BST-1 . It was on offer(£40) and i ordered it when i was planning a cheap build . I have already ordered the nx3000d . Should i plan to get a second LFE( or a Concert) for the pedals . This will probably be a little while off as i would like to add the exciters next . Would it be worth fitting the BST-1 under the pedals for now till i can upgrade. Due to it coming from the US it wont be worth returning

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

the Nobsound path and just limit hz in Simhub.

How do I do that? what are the consequences? I understand you suggest that strongly believing a better effect comes out.

 

[Mr Muntarg]

I suspect these may be too soft to Isolate seat and pedals. Any experience

4Pcs M8 Male / Male Anti Vibration Rubber Mount Car Bobbin Isolator Damper 30x20 | eBay

Threaded: M8 (20mm Thread Length). These anti-vibration bumpers are used to reduce vibration and shock. Their cylindrical shape ensures that when used in a row, the buffers spread the loads over a number of buffers - reducing the chances of possible overloading.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[EsxPaul]

I suspect these may be too soft to Isolate seat and pedals. Any experience

4Pcs M8 Male / Male Anti Vibration Rubber Mount Car Bobbin Isolator Damper 30x20 | eBay

Threaded: M8 (20mm Thread Length). These anti-vibration bumpers are used to reduce vibration and shock. Their cylindrical shape ensures that when used in a row, the buffers spread the loads over a number of buffers - reducing the chances of possible overloading.

www.ebay.co.uk

I'm using these for my pedal deck and I find that they are actually too hard to give good isolation. Theses generic bobbins don't have much 'give' at all in my experience and do a poor job of decoupling one part from another.

If you can afford to, you'd be better off in the long run looking to spend a little bit more on the type of bushings that Mr Latte recommends or the ones RCHeliguy is using.

 

[Mr Muntarg]

I'm using these for my pedal deck and I find that they are actually too hard to give good isolation. Theses generic bobbins don't have much 'give' at all in my experience and do a poor job of decoupling one part from another.

If you can afford to, you'd be better off in the long run looking to spend a little bit more on the type of bushings that Mr Latte recommends or the ones RCHeliguy is using.

Okay great thanks ill have a search back through the thread for them

 

[RCHeliguy]

Okay great thanks ill have a search back through the thread for them

I'm not suggesting that these are nearly as good as the upcoming Race-Bass mounts and they certainly do not handle much weight. However they are working reasonably well for me for just my foot plate. I'm using 50 Durometer Sorbothane right now, but have 70 arriving Tuesday. They absolutely would not be enough for a seat or an entire pedal deck.

Foot Plate Transducer Isolator by RCHeliGuy

Edit: 6/12/21 Added a shorter left and right plate support that can be used when vertical clearance is an issue for the taller supports This is an isolation system that allows a sim racing foot plate to move well isolated from the rest of the rig. This captures the Sorbothane so it doesn't...

www.thingiverse.com

 

[Mr Muntarg]

I'm not suggesting that these are nearly as good as the upcoming Race-Bass mounts and they certainly do not handle much weight. However they are working reasonably well for me for just my foot plate. I'm using 50 Durometer Sorbothane right now, but have 70 arriving Tuesday. They absolutely would not be enough for a seat or an entire pedal deck.

Foot Plate Transducer Isolator by RCHeliGuy

Edit: 6/12/21 Added a shorter left and right plate support that can be used when vertical clearance is an issue for the taller supports This is an isolation system that allows a sim racing foot plate to move well isolated from the rest of the rig. This captures the Sorbothane so it doesn't...

www.thingiverse.com

I think your using inverted pedals , so i assume its just a heal plate . I have the Fanatac v3 pedals that will be mounted to an Ali plate along with the shaker .The plate then suspended from my frame . Therefore they'll have to resist braking force . They seat ones will also have the same braking force applied too . So i suspect your solution will be a little soft for my setup

Saying that your solution does give me some ideas . I run a machine shop and have 3d printers here also . I certainly could make something

 

[stigs2cousin]

Hy Mark,

are you using the same durometer on both sides of the pedal plate?

It seems to me that upper and lower sorbothane "disc" would see different loads?
As in the lower disc carries the wheight of the plate, bass shakers and your feet wherein the upper disc only has to hold up the pretension by the bolts and the dynamic forces of the shakers?

So maybe the isolation could be improved by making the upper discs (much) softer than the lower ones?

Also.

is it possible to get this kind of isolator stiff enough for a seat ( 50kg brake force and a "sustantial" driver) and also achieve decent isolation?

MFG Carsten

 

[RCHeliguy]

Hy Mark,

are you using the same durometer on both sides of the pedal plate?

It seems to me that upper and lower sorbothane "disc" would see different loads?
As in the lower disc carries the wheight of the plate, bass shakers and your feet wherein the upper disc only has to hold up the pretension by the bolts and the dynamic forces of the shakers?

So maybe the isolation could be improved by making the upper discs (much) softer than the lower ones?

Also.

is it possible to get this kind of isolator stiff enough for a seat ( 50kg brake force and a "sustantial" driver) and also achieve decent isolation?

MFG Carsten

Currently I have 50 on the bottom and 30 Durometer on the top, but the top discs are almost irrelevant. I don't have them tight.

The 30Durometer is very squishy and doesn't hold shape under load. The 50 is holding it's shape much better. I'm not sure if I'll feel anything different with 70, but I'll try them out just to see.

What's funny is that the lumpy engine idle tactile now produces a sound up front that almost sounds like an engine idling. I can't hear it in game with my headphones over my ears.

I DO NOT CONSIDER THIS a good option for a seat or to receive brake pedal forces, period.