Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[blekenbleu]

a gearchange that only outputs if

1. The car's rpm is above a percentage of the max rpm? (Eg 80% or 90%)
2. Upshifts only
3. Downshifts only

I suppose that is doable, but:

• to avoid requiring each user to modify Javascript, a custom bass shaker property may be wanted to repurpose its gain filter slider for adjusting that max rpm
• I have no experience with gearchange effects.
  • There are 5 entries with "Gear" in "AVAILABLE PROPERTIES",
  • then 18 seemingly specific to T500_RS (AKA TH8A).
• separate custom effects for upshifts and downshifts that users can mix
  • there may be delays until shift changes are registered, so effect not while shift in progress
  • need for some user control over duration of shift change effects?

Given poor documentation and having entries deleted on SimHub discord,
optimism about sorting these approaches nil.

My pedals are out of commission while 3M VHB cures.

In initial experiments,

1. the 'Gear' property may return 'N' instead of numeric 0, which is at best unhelpful.
2. Javascript setTimeout() appears to be unsupported, complicating effect duration control.
3. H-pattern shifts register as both up and down shifts, since going thru neutral. Consequently, some delays must be enforced to determine net gear changes.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I suppose that is doable, but:

• to avoid requiring each user to modify Javascript, a custom bass shaker property may be wanted to repurpose its gain filter slider for adjusting that max rpm
• I have no experience with gearchange effects.
  • There are 5 entries with "Gear" in "AVAILABLE PROPERTIES",
  • then 18 seemingly specific to T500_RS (AKA TH8A).
• separate custom effects for upshifts and downshifts that users can mix
  • there may be delays until shift changes are registered, so effect not while shift in progress
  • need for some user control over duration of shift change effects?

Given poor documentation and having entries deleted on SimHub discord,
optimism about sorting these approaches nil.

My pedals are out of commission while 3M VHB cures.

In initial experiments,
the 'Gear' property may return 'N' instead of numeric 0, which is at best unhelpful.
Javascript setTimeout() appears to be unsupported, making effect duration control also problematic.

isn´t there an simhub option which forces to ignore neutral?

 

[blekenbleu]

isn´t there an simhub option which forces to ignore neutral?

Indeed there is, for the GEAR SHIFT effect, which was not being used.
Thanks for asking; perhaps it can be used along with the game Gear property
to sort up- vs down-shifts.

Sadly, Gear property reports neutral before GEAR SHIFT effect goes active;
more sequential logic is required.

 

[blekenbleu]

OK, attached is a nearly untested RPM-modulated separated up and downshift profile.
The first CUSTOM EFFECT is RPM-modulated outputs:

Watch out for glitches from neutral at leading edge of shift pulses.
Adding more delay to avoid those glitches also delays pulses of interest.
Shift pulse amplitudes are affected by the second CUSTOM EFFECT,
which exports an RPM % property for the first effect. Instead of a binary RPM threshold,
it can be tweaked from continuously increasing with RPM:

.. to nearly binary, by cranking gamma, gain and threshold:

... or pretty much anything in between.

The third, mostly generic, GEAR SHIFT exports proxyShift property
to drive the first effect.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey, thanks for spending the time looking into this.
Will give this a try later.

 

[Mr Latte]

I found a folder I had with previous workings into shift effects.
Like RPM, I don't think shifts should feel the same in all types of cars. Yet I expect most users to have a shift effect they use on most cars, right?

I want to be able to have a range of shift effects that vary from being smoother and more aggressive, to suit certain cars. Also to suit different user moods or preferences.

A Lambo should not feel the same as an MX5
The gearshift sensation, is an aspect of the immersion and these can be improved I think a lot and especially with owners using the better tactile gear.

Ideally, I think I found what I wanted with a "Blib" spike that only happens on downshifts.
But I want this to only operate when at a predetermined high RPM eg: @80%

Currently, it works on all downshifts it feels a bit intense, so I want it to essentially operate with the rpm. You are right that there is a slight delay as the gear has to be activated but used in this way it's role is to give a nice thrust when downshifting, its purpose is to make downshifts at race-type speeds and peak rpm more thrilling.


With the response curve, we should also be able to vary to some extent how it feels with whatever Hz we apply.

 

[anton_Chez]

Downshifts with RPM taken into account would be great. There is a feeling I get with that in the profile that I'm currently on, which was the hybrid of all Mr Latte's effects from the most recent profile drops.

I am yet to test the brand new ones. I always find myself in quiet time when I have time to get back into the seat, so hopefully come the weekend I can put some time into testing and offering feedback.

 

[Mr Latte]

Size comparison of different exciters to the Dayton Puck....
For something like the back/sides of the seat or on pedals, these are much easier to place.

DAEX32Q is a new arrival and is available in both 4ohm and 8ohm versions.
I've not yet compared it to the others but is very compact.


Monacor appears to have a unit that is identical but often sold for more.

 

[Mr Latte]

Downshifts with RPM taken into account would be great. There is a feeling I get with that in the profile that I'm currently on, which was the hybrid of all Mr Latte's effects from the most recent profile drops.

I am yet to test the brand new ones. I always find myself in quiet time when I have time to get back into the seat, so hopefully come the weekend I can put some time into testing and offering feedback.

The new engine was worked on to better suit more types of units.
I even developed quite a bit of it using the MQB1to keep you happy

The car was chosen because a friend is fond of Aston Martin and he's just recently got ACC.
So I kinda killed two birds with one stone. I will do a further improved version after monitoring the audio output of this car's engine.

Then use some layers with frequencies that tie in with what the cars actual audio generates when at high-max rpm. See if we can insert some character of the car into the Simhub engine.


Edit:
I actually forgot I had tweaked the V3 slightly to use similar peak Hz on idle and at max rpm.
However, people are going to adjust settings on the fly as to what feels better for them.

Here are screencaps using visualizer with an average every 500ms

AMR V8 GT3 Game Audio Idle:

Peaks @55-60Hz / @110Hz-120Hz


AMR V8 GT3 Game Audio Max RPM:

Peaks @60Hz-80Hz / @120Hz-160Hz

Simhub RPM output will vary based on the individual gain levels for different layers

Below is an example of the above settings from V3, Notice that the highest frequency is 91Hz
We see output going well beyond this with naturally generated harmonics. Users are wrong to assume what they input into effect settings is only or indeed equals the max frequency that is generated.


Simhub V3 Idle RPM:

Here our peaks are 35Hz-40Hz / 70-80Hz but these will feel better on most units. Perhaps an additional layer @49Hz would be worth adding and maintain a harmonic match with the & 7Hz fundamental frequency this engine was given.


Simhub V3 Max RPM

Hitting a peak in that 60Hz-80Hz range. For a more tweaked engine that would combine the use of exciters or TST then it would be possible to bring more of the finer detail out with extra harmonics @160Hz - 180Hz.

While I think better is still possible in this example, In general, it isn't a bad RPM scale that most users should be able to enjoy on the common transducers.

The Mini Quake seems less hassle of a unit and much quieter than the Mini Lfe but I want to see what Anton will discover from his own comparisons using those units.

 

[KnIgHtCoM]

Size comparison of different exciters to the Dayton Puck....
For something like the back/sides of the seat or on pedals, these are much easier to place.

DAEX32Q is a new arrival and is available in both 4ohm and 8ohm versions.
I've not yet compared it to the others but is very compact.


Monacor appears to have a unit that is identical but often sold for more.

I checked out the new DAEX32Q-4 on PartsExpress and it appears you can separate the mounting disc? Can you confirm that you could potentially secure the base with screws from those 2 holes in addition to using the VHB tape?

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes it has a plastic thread, is removable.

 

[KnIgHtCoM]

Yes it has a plastic thread, is removable.

Thanks for confirming. So the holes are plastic threaded? Wondering how well that will hold up. Can you share a photo of the back/inside portion of the mounting disc?

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for confirming. So the holes are plastic threaded? Wondering how well that will hold up. Can you share a photo of the back/inside portion of the mounting disc?

The mounting disc has threads on the outer edge not the holes, on mine is was tight.

I assume the holes let you inset something to help you untighten and then as you mention use small bolts or screws to fasten the base.

 

[RacingMat]

likewise grinders disk nut system:

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

anyone using an external USB soundcard 7.1? I have some issues configuring it for SimHub.

 

[anton_Chez]

You would separate the mount from the exciter, screw the mount using the predefined holes, then twist the unit back into the mounting plate. Good solution if you don't mind drilling through whatever you're mounting to.

 

[Mr Latte]

My recent purchases into new audio hardware over the last 6 or so months, appear to be working how I need them. So far I have been testing how I can take independent effects from Simhub (each on their own channel) and then control and visually monitor these. Also to then create my own mix to determine what effects and their output levels go to each output channel.

Being able to do that via the X-Touch midi controller is awesome but also from iPad with various software tools, is a very satisfying aspect for taking a rather technical installation and making it so easy to control. I have had to learn a lot about new things, like what a Mixbus is and how controls like DCA groups can be applied to control the audio in realtime.

Now that I know this creative approach to using Simhub is working, I have ordered additional 3.5mm - XLR custom-made cables for my soundcards to Behringer S32 digital stage box. The quality is stellar but at @£80 for each 7.1 card not exactly cheap. Especially when you need a lot when you're using up to 32 INPUT channels as I intend to use.

Yet my approach is being patient and do this right, to buy good components and have in place for this build a high benchmark. with also the best level of control over the audio possible.

While I, want to to make some improvements to my builds isolation. I have been enjoying some comparisons between a few different transducers and dabbling again with a few effects.

The next step in my rather crazy tactile/audio journey and learning still needs to continue.
I showcased this late last year and it blew me away in what it offers with features like "Dynamic EQ" and extra snazzy, visual monitor tools for audio. Hoping, this purchase will bring, a professional studio-level of control and monitoring to both my Simhub and PC system audio.

I had been holding off, and while the Midas / Behringer software options to control my digital mixer are really good. You can get better and do more from a DAW. This one aspect, has been a should I or shouldn't I scenario. Also, I never spent so much on a bit of software in my life but found a good deal on my chosen DAW that has swung it as the way forward. It represents what ties all the audio hardware together and is a highly acclaimed bit of software.




SuperVision and all its modules, here we come...
More learning, but surely additional rewards and satisfaction, once I get to grips with it?

 

[Myke The Killer]

Hello,
my name is Michele and I have just started my journey in the buttkicker tactile path
I have read almost all the 197 pages of this topic but there are still some things that I don't understand

My actual system is based on:
1 x Ampli Behringer MX300D
1 x Buttkicker Mini LFE
1 x Buttkicker LFE Advance BK4-4

My rig... is not one of the best :-( I have a playseat challenge so I am aware that the final result won't be the best...

My idea is to divide the effects I want (Simhub) like this:

MINI LFE
-wheels slip
-wheels lock

LFE ADVANCE BK4-4
- Engine RPMS
- Gear Shift
- Road Impacts
- Road vibrations

My first question is if, in your opinion, the divisions of the effects between the two butt-kickers are ok?

One effect that is important for me, because I like the feeling, is the GEAR SHIFT that should be the easiest to manage but I am still not happy. In the beginning, my idea was to set the Gear shift effect to the MINI LFE (just to balance the division of the effects between the 2 butt-kicker) but I had the problem that the sound was like "metallic" not full and low as it is with the BK4-4.
Based on that I have understood (at least I hope!) that I should do what has been suggested by many of you guys, to try some frequencies (10Hz, 20Hz,30Hz, etc) and start to understand how your rig/butt-kicker behave with that frequency.
Problem is that, for instance, if I try the freq of 10HZ, I don't understand what I should hear "annotate" to better understand my system. Should I raise/reduce the volume till I hear something? and then annotate these numbers to modify the Parametric EQ according?
Another example of what I don't understand... I know that around 35hz there could be the "piston" effect with the mini lfe that I can "reduce" playing with the parametric EQ maybe reducing the volume of that particular freq, so, the process to understand this should be to have a 35hz input and then, what I should do/understand?

Also, if I would like to visualize the output of one of my butt-kicker, is there a particular software I should use?

Maybe if I start to understand these things I can get a better understanding of how these things work

Thank you for your help

 

[anton_Chez]

Your BK Mini struggles with frequencies that are below 35hz. There is an issue with these units referred to as "piston pang" and it is heard as a metallic knocking sound if gain is high enough with frequencies under 35hz. The lowest and deepest tone you'll find you'll get from these units is around 38hz before running into issues.

 

[Heinrichert]

Hi there,

im new to the Buttkicker thing. So first i bought a buttkicker lfe, and some sort of amp. Unfortunately the amp blew while testing, so i didnt realy had a chance to test it with the sim rig (p1x). Also the fan of the amp was pretty loud which was not ideal for me.

So, next up i found a used buttkicker gamer (i guess version 1, with the black funky looking amp, unfortunaltely also having a loud fan) using simhub and acc. I tried that one a bit, attached to the back profile pointing to the middle. While it does give some good feedback it also seems to be quite loud when turning the volume up. So i was thinking that maybe the lfe buttkicker would do better (which i already have lying around here with no amp).

So the question is, would the lfe buttkicker give more rumble with lesse noise ? And is the Buttkicker gamer version 1 Amp suited for the LFE ? (if not what would be a fanless reommendation to the lfe ?)