T300 motor upgrade. Need pinout info of original motor

[mattmisanthropy]

​

Hi everyone,
I've purchased 5 motors for a few T300s I have. They're supposed to be an upgrade over the original T300 motors. The new motors in question are: 'BL4260 24v 4200rpm 32w'.
I had to disguise as a business and order samples because they normally only sell 1000 at a time.
Trouble is, the wires are all different colours (which I really should have expected).
The wires are also loose, so I need to connect the original motor's plugs on to them.
I've contacted the supplier and he's told me the pinout for the new motor. Now I just need the pinout for the original motor. Does anyone have this information?
I've also noticed the new motor doesn't have the magnet on the rear shaft. Will this new motor even work?
Pinout info for new motor is as follows:

When the red wire is connected to the positive pole of the power supply "+", and the black and blue wire connected to the negative pole of the power supply "-", the motor’s rotation direction is clockwise, viewed from the output shaft side.
When the red wire is connected to the positive pole of the power supply "+", and the black, blue and yellow wire connected to the negative pole of the power supply "-", the motor’s rotation direction is counter clockwise, viewed from the long output shaft side.
When the blue wire is connected to "-", the motor runs at full-speed.
When the blue wire is connected to the PWM signal, the motor speed can be adjusted.
When the white wire is connected to "-", the motor stops running .
The cable connection method of the motor must comply with the above instructions. Reverse connection of the positive and negative of the power is strictly forbidden. Do not connect the motor to voltage higher than 26.4 VDC.

IMG20210814171552

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IMG20210814171606

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IMG20210814171639

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[Neilski]

This thread seems to be referring to control board and encoder interchangeably.

OK, but what I'm getting at is that the FG wire can only provide an indication of speed, not speed+direction. It's therefore useless for closed-loop position control (or position sensing), as you'd need for an FFB wheel...

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

OK, but what I'm getting at is that the FG wire can only provide an indication of speed, not speed+direction. It's therefore useless for closed-loop position control (or position sensing), as you'd need for an FFB wheel...

on it's own - yes. I presume the FG signal is needed by the control logic to measure the motor speed which will lag behind the control inputs due to hysteresis. No idea how the absolute position is calculated but presume it uses an array of hall affect sensors or something? OP will know - he is the one with the wheelbases. I've no direct experience with T300.

 

[Sithhy™]

but presume it uses an array of hall affect sensors or something?

Just one sensor. It's a AS5048A High-Resolution Position Sensor

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

Just one sensor. It's a AS5048A High-Resolution Position Sensor

Read the data sheet. That will help you understand how these things work.


That position sensor IC contains a multiple hall sensor array. A single hall sensor could not measure rotation accurately.

The AS5048 is a magnetic Hall sensor system manufactured in a CMOS process. A lateral Hall sensor array is used to measure the magnetic field components perpendicular to the surface of the chip. The AS5048 is uses self-calibration methods to eliminate signal offset and sensitivity drifts.

The integrated Hall sensors are placed around the center of the device and deliver a voltage representation of the magnetic flux Bz.

The integrated Hall sensors of the sensor IC are arranged in a circle using different diameters depending on the product (see Table 1). The principle for rotation angle measurement requires that the Hall elements on the IC can sense a full magnetic period as the magnet rotates. This requirement is obtained by using a diametrically magnetized magnet.

 

[Neilski]

on it's own - yes. I presume the FG signal is needed by the control logic to measure the motor speed which will lag behind the control inputs due to hysteresis. No idea how the absolute position is calculated but presume it uses an array of hall affect sensors or something? OP will know - he is the one with the wheelbases. I've no direct experience with T300.

I think I probably wasn't very clear about what I meant.
I'm saying that the FG is literally useless, because the things you'd need to add to it to achieve position sensing would do everything that the FG does and more. I can't think of a way (but maybe one exists?) to augment the FG with other things and end up with a system where the FG actually contributes anything worthwhile...
And of course it's not just the instantaneous absolute angle of the motor that you need, it's the number of complete revolutions it has performed since initialisation as well.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

I think I probably wasn't very clear about what I meant.
I'm saying that the FG is literally useless, because the things you'd need to add to it to achieve position sensing would do everything that the FG does and more. I can't think of a way (but maybe one exists?) to augment the FG with other things and end up with a system where the FG actually contributes anything worthwhile...
And of course it's not just the instantaneous absolute angle of the motor that you need, it's the number of complete revolutions it has performed since initialisation as well.

My experience of FG feedback is from record player turntables where it is used to combat hysteresis and maintain accurate rotation speed. If you are saying that FG isn't used in that way on the T300 I'm happy to accept that as I have no experience with these - as I have said several times now.

 

[Neilski]

My experience of FG feedback is from record player turntables where it is used to combat hysteresis and maintain accurate rotation speed. If you are saying that FG isn't used in that way on the T300 I'm happy to accept that as I have no experience with these - as I have said several times now.

I have zero experience with T300s myself. We're not talking about T300s specifically here, we're talking about motors and position control, which are very general concepts.
I'm simply saying that an FG output cannot help you with position control for a motor, because the direction information is missing, and the only ways I can think of to fill that gap would supersede the information from the FG output anyway.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

I have zero experience with T300s myself. We're not talking about T300s specifically here, we're talking about motors and position control, which are very general concepts.
I'm simply saying that an FG output cannot help you with position control for a motor, because the direction information is missing, and the only ways I can think of to fill that gap would supersede the information from the FG output anyway.

Absolutely - FG indicates speed only - nobody is suggesting otherwise. Whether the T300 uses this information or not is unknown by either of us. We know it has a positional sensor and it may rely solely on this - or it may use speed info from FG and positional information from the sensor in parallel, perhaps for error correction. I mentioned FG earlier to explain how it can be used by control logic to monitor speed and to make it clear the motor itself does not have this logic onboard. You seem keen to ensure that we all understand this will be of no benefit in this application and that only positional information matters. I'm happy to accept that may be the case.

 

[Sithhy™]

Yeah, I'm not sure what my plan is now.

After clogging your thread up a bit, are you still willing to buy a replacement motor? Did lots of searching & found this one on Aliexpress however the seller hasn't provided any info about it other than it being brushless & the "right" size

 

[Burgunder]

Perhaps you can order a motor from this place http://en.hengdrive.com/Products/BLDC motorsB4260MBrushlessDCMot.html

 

[Sithhy™]

Perhaps you can order motor from this place http://en.hengdrive.com/Products/BLDC motorsB4260MBrushlessDCMot.html

I don't think HengDrive allows to buy just one motor from them

I did send them an email about that, so we'll see what will be their reply

 

[mattmisanthropy]

After clogging your thread up a bit, are you still willing to buy a replacement motor? Did lots of searching & found this one on Aliexpress however the seller hasn't provided any info about it other than it being brushless & the "right" size

Admittedly, I've been a bit lazy with this project. I honestly think I'm just going to wait until I find a direct replacement so I don't have to do anything other than plug it in. The rude guy that first replied to this post might have been right and that this was probably a bit too much for me

 

[Sithhy™]

Perhaps you can order a motor from this place

I did send them an email about that, so we'll see what will be their reply

Got a reply from them today

Hi Sir，

thanks for your mail ,but we didn't sell it at one pieces, the MOQ is 1000pcs because we are a factory.

Sorry for that,but hope you can understand.

Thanks.

 

[Burgunder]

Got a reply from them today

The bright side is that you only need 995 bad T300s before you can make an order.

 

[Tomtom0800]

​

Hi everyone,
I've purchased 5 motors for a few T300s I have. They're supposed to be an upgrade over the original T300 motors. The new motors in question are: 'BL4260 24v 4200rpm 32w'.
I had to disguise as a business and order samples because they normally only sell 1000 at a time.
Trouble is, the wires are all different colours (which I really should have expected).
The wires are also loose, so I need to connect the original motor's plugs on to them.
I've contacted the supplier and he's told me the pinout for the new motor. Now I just need the pinout for the original motor. Does anyone have this information?
I've also noticed the new motor doesn't have the magnet on the rear shaft. Will this new motor even work?
Pinout info for new motor is as follows:

When the red wire is connected to the positive pole of the power supply "+", and the black and blue wire connected to the negative pole of the power supply "-", the motor’s rotation direction is clockwise, viewed from the output shaft side.
When the red wire is connected to the positive pole of the power supply "+", and the black, blue and yellow wire connected to the negative pole of the power supply "-", the motor’s rotation direction is counter clockwise, viewed from the long output shaft side.
When the blue wire is connected to "-", the motor runs at full-speed.
When the blue wire is connected to the PWM signal, the motor speed can be adjusted.
When the white wire is connected to "-", the motor stops running .
The cable connection method of the motor must comply with the above instructions. Reverse connection of the positive and negative of the power is strictly forbidden. Do not connect the motor to voltage higher than 26.4 VDC.

IMG20210814171552

Image IMG20210814171552 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

IMG20210814171606

Image IMG20210814171606 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

IMG20210814171639

Image IMG20210814171639 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Hi I have been through motors for the T300 and finding one that's better is hard. The internal psu is 2amp max so increasing the motor will just weaken the ffb. My motor burnt so replacing was my only option, untill I gave up. You need a 3phase DC brushless motor that will suit the rear encoder. There is no negative to the motor just 3 positive wires, negative goes to the motor chassis.. My fix was to buy 26swg wire and rewind the motor my self. I wond each segment 26 times and that done the trick. Put it all back together and it doesn't miss a beat. Hope that helps

 

[LogicWheels]

May I add to this conversation that it is not a hall sensor, Thrustmaster uses a 14 bit magnetic rotary encoder to determine the position of the wheel. To put a stronger motor in would not be a very good idea, unless the mosfets powering the motor are replaced for more powerfull ones and you might even need to upgrade the power circuitry.

 

[felixnelsonsr]

IDK if it too late or no but in this forum Page 23 there are a guy who put a Hoverboard motor onto his T300 and use it as a direct drive wheel idk if it working or not but i think it's worth a time looking into it

 

[Sithhy™]

IDK if it too late or no but in this forum Page 23 there are a guy who put a Hoverboard motor onto his T300 and use it as a direct drive wheel idk if it working or not but i think it's worth a time looking into it

Do you mean Adilrepas? I wrote to him on Discord a year ago about his project because the motor in my T300 has gone so I wanted to see if his contraption actually worked, but the reply he's given was not satisfactory

(he's changed usernames since then)

 

[felixnelsonsr]

Do you mean Adilrepas? I wrote to him on Discord a year ago about his project because the motor in my T300 has gone so I wanted to see if his contraption actually worked, but the reply he's given was not satisfactory

View attachment 616720
(he's changed usernames since then)

Well that's unlucky at this point build the whole new wheel might be a better option like i did using This firmware

 

[Myszton]

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