Superwide vs Triple vs VR: embarking on a journey to find out what to get next.

[fnegroni]

I just got hold of two monitors from work, to try out a triple monitor setup.
Never had experienced racing with such a small a vFOV before, I was amazed at the effect: everything seems to be smoother, and slower, which means I can be ever so precise in braking/turning/accelerating in turns.
That opened my eyes as to what I was missing out in terms of peripheral vision and FOV setup.
I am sold: I'm going to get myself a more realistic setup.
I tried both AC and ACC.
AC-triple monitor rendering is great: I have my side monitors at the ideal 60 degrees angle, and graphics are perfect.
By when I tried ACC, I noticed it doesn't yet support triple monitor setups, or at least, it seems to me optimised for Superwide monitors with a much shallower curvature angle than a triple.
Could this be the direction the devs want us to go into with simracing?
Price for a good superwide g-sync panel is steep but still affordable for me.
And I would rather have one monitor rather than deal with how to setup three monitors towering over my desk (more to the point, I don't need the extra two monitors at the moment)
I will tonight try to setup the three monitors with a shallower angle, and cover half of each of the two side panels, to emulate a 49 inch 1080p Superwide monitor (I currently have three 27 inch 1080p monitors)
Tomorrow I am also borrowing an Oculus Rift for the rest of the week, so I can experiment with all the different FOVs and see which one I prefer.
I know some of you are sold on VR, but if anyone else is in the same position as me, trying to figure out what solution could be the least expensive yet more flexible and still performing well (I can't stand stuttering/low FPS/tearing etc..) then just follow this post and I'll update you on my findings.
I wear glasses, and don't like to wear them but contact lenses tend to fall off when I don't blink often enough, as it's the case while I am playing a simulation.

 

[Emery]

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel, since KartKraft (also running on UE4) has promised proper triple screen support....Kunos, what are you waiting for ?

Maybe they're waiting for better fps?

 

[Fanapryde]

Maybe they're waiting for better fps?

I don't know about them, but that's another thing I would like to see improved...

 

[fnegroni]

Did KartKraft finally implement triple screen support? I can’t find any threads or videos showing that yet. I fear it will be a ‘resolution’ only support.

 

[Fanapryde]

Did KartKraft finally implement triple screen support? I can’t find any threads or videos showing that yet. I fear it will be a ‘resolution’ only support.

I got this answer from Zach Griffin to my question about it:

"""""We will be adding triple screen support during EA. As you’ve most likely already worked out, it’s not a simple task given the way the engine handles viewports. Once we have a solid ETA, we’ll announce it.

It’s also worth noting the view doesn’t appear as distorted as you’d experience in a closed cockpit. We have a large number of players that are using triples right now. It’s not perfect, but it does work. """""

 

[fnegroni]

I got this answer from Zach Griffin to my question about it:

"""""We will be adding triple screen support during EA. As you’ve most likely already worked out, it’s not a simple task given the way the engine handles viewports. Once we have a solid ETA, we’ll announce it.

It’s also worth noting the view doesn’t appear as distorted as you’d experience in a closed cockpit. We have a large number of players that are using triples right now. It’s not perfect, but it does work. """""

Thank you for that.
I must say, ACC on an Ultra wide (49” 32:9 display) doesn’t look bad. It’s just that with 3 monitors at the correct angle (near zero) you have a very wide monitor for not so much FOV gain. Three 27inch monitors next to each other, flat, are 1.8 meters wide in total.

 

[Fanapryde]

Thank you for that.
I must say, ACC on an Ultra wide (49” 32:9 display) doesn’t look bad. It’s just that with 3 monitors at the correct angle (near zero) you have a very wide monitor for not so much FOV gain. Three 27inch monitors next to each other, flat, are 1.8 meters wide in total.

I would not call near zero the correct angle ... If I look to the side, that's where I expect to see cars that are next to me. I don't want to see them in front with three monitors in an straight line.
With my three 27" screens angled at 45° it looks REALLY compared to the other sims I drive.
Which is the reason I have barely 4 hrs in ACC now (don't know how the counter works, but no way I have driven 4 hrs)...
But we can only hope for now...

 

[fnegroni]

I would not call near zero the correct angle ...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think zero is the correct angle for triples; I personally have them at 45 degress but I could actually have them at 60 degrees to get a wider FOV and see well to my side.
But ACC stretches the view as if you had specified an angle of zero in a triple set up tool (AC, iRacing, etc) which means you just about see the front of a car next to you, which is not too bad because someone overtaking on the inside should not stay there unless they have presented themselves properly, and in my books that means they are kind of level with you, not in the rear quarter...

 

[Kek700]

I have always taken the view that front monitor "distance" from your eyes should be
reflected in the two side monitors.
When turning your head to view one of the side monitors, It always seems to give a more natural perspective. I'm not sure what angle that represents

 

[RasmusP]

I have always taken the view that front monitor "distance" from your eyes should be
reflected in the two side monitors.
When turning your head to view one of the side monitors, It always seems to give a more natural perspective. I'm not sure what angle that represents

You mean like the center of each monitor connected resulting in a perfekt circle?
This means the angle would become flatter when you're sitting further away. Makes sense for me!

 

[Kek700]

Very true, but as I am or should I say was only 47cm from the front screen, it means the
side monitors were at 60 or so degrees. Not absolutely sure if this is the formula I used?
found it written in my log book. Pretty sure it is correct, someone will surely say anyway

Monitor angle = 2 x [ inv tan ( monitor width / ( 2 x viewing distance ) ) ]

 

[Kek700]

Rasmus,
you have got or about to get your 3440x1440 gsync monitor.
I am running ACC at about half the frame rate of AC at around 70 to 80 FPS . I should be
complaining bitterly. But it is still very smooth with g sync, so much so that i do not
notice the FPS loss compared with AC.
I will be interested in your point of view when you get your monitor.

 

[RasmusP]

Rasmus,
you have got or about to get your 3440x1440 gsync monitor.
I am running ACC at about half the frame rate of AC at around 70 to 80 FPS . I should be
complaining bitterly. But it is still very smooth with g sync, so much so that i do not
notice the FPS loss compared with AC.
I will be interested in your point of view when you get your monitor.

It's already set up since Tuesday but I couldn't race yet. I watched some replays and let the ai drive around in rf2 though.
It's nothing but purely awesome
Not much "side view" but I can see apexes better and finally the a pole isn't the border of my view anymore. Every inch counts hehe!
Gsync is awesome! Due to the resolution increase and my cpu being a bottleneck anyway I only went for 70 fps instead of 60 fps but it's something
The biggest difference is that I always got some tiny tiny drops below 60 fps due to my cpu and it always bothered me like hell cause I need vsync or I'm bothered by stuttering/tearing.
Now with gsync it's no longer "60/60/30/60" when it drops to let's say 58 fps but instead it's "60/58/58/58/60", which I don't even really notice.
Finally no micro stutter! Couldn't be happier

The side view increasement isn't really big though. No comparison to triples but it's nice anyway and for my needs it's just perfect! (still studying, the office space is just awesome!)

 

[Turk]

2. Mist on the lenses: whenever first wearing the unit after a long break, a fine mist would form on the lenses, due to my breathing through the nose. I just had to wait about 5 minutes to allow for the fine layer of steam to evaporate from the lenses: this was probably due to a big gap between the nose and the foam under the visor. I am sure there's a workaround for that, but after two days, I was very frustrated by it. It was actually putting me off wearing it for a quick game!

Happens to me too, I've wondered if heating the mask up first would stop it. I live in a cold country so that just exacerbates the problem of condensation. Once the lens are a similar temp to your face it goes away. But yeah, pretty annoying and mostly caused by the enclosed space and a hot face. Hard to avoid.

3. Wearing contacts: I normally wear glasses when spending time on a computer for longer than a few minutes. Glare is an issue for me, exacerbated when wearing contacts, and also my eyes dry up quite a bit: the Rift was making this all a bit too much for me.
I could not wear it using my regular pair of glasses, and so if I ever bought one, I would have to get myself some inserts taylor made for the Rift.

I have big issues with glasses too. I keep meaning to go in and get contacts. At the moment my glasses are probably touching the rift lens and they get jammed into my nose making long stints impossible, it's just to painful.

In Dirt Rally, I am sorry to say, I nearly vomited. I could not drive up and down for more than 5 minutes without fearing being sick. I know you can get used to it but still... and no, my FPS never dipped below 90, ever.

Same, loved dirt on a single screen. But in VR it's like trying to drive in an earth quake and down right frightening.

You do need to make some serious compromises for VR, but I still think it's worth it. I think after some use your brain will start filling in the gaps, being able to look to apex is huge for me. I get so much feedback from seeing what the car is doing in relation to me and the outside world just helps me hugely with accuracy.

The major compromise with triples is obviously the loss of head tracking and being in the world, but other than that (and the real world space requirements) it's on a par with VR, what you lose in immersion you gain in clarity.

Either option is good, I've already chosen VR but can fully understand why someone would pick triples instead.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Either option is good, I've already chosen VR but can fully understand why someone would pick triples instead.

I don't , not driving in VR is not driving, 3 or more screens still put you in your home driving a car, if that does not feel weird, I don't know what does.
For the mist, I live a cold country, well 6 month of the year, the rest of the year same country but not cold,, so for the mist, I keep one of those special lenses cloth, and use it once or twice, when the delta of temperature between my face creates fog on the lenses.
Once the goggles get warmer, no issue. between that and driving in my home easy choice.
blowing hot air in the goggles before wearing them also helps to speed up the process, if you are really impatient.
Still for those too weak or too soft to be able to take VR, there is always pancake gaming.

 

[fnegroni]

As mentioned in a follow up post, I recently got the oculus again, and my experience didn’t change at all. I still very much prefer triples.
My son instead loved it, he experienced none of the issues I did, and didn’t mind the resolution. Go figure!

 

[DrRob]

Resurrecting this thread....

I used a living room projector and wheel stand setup until now. Couldn't really setup a dedicated rig in a separate room, so had to go the wheel stand and sofa route. But I was always unsatisfied when it came to visual experience. The projector is a rather old homecinema FullHD machine, the screen a 100". Of course the resolution <-> distance ratio was rather poor, same is true for overall brightness and contrast.

I mulled over triples for a while, but with above restrictions its rather rimpossible and would require quite a beefy graphics card as well .. in which I really was not willing to invest in.
So, I went for the middle ground and bought myself 32:9 Samsung gaming monitor, when it was on sale a 1 or 2 wees ago. And what a game changer that is!

Okay, I have to do some living room remoddeling when I want to race a bit, but it is so worth it. Better image quality, more immersion, better awareness when it comes to cornering, etc. With the internal ACC correction tool distortion is not a problem and I lost round about only 5-10 FPS due to the larger resolution (GTX1070). Will try my EDTracker with this setup the upcoming days, which should bring even more immersion!

Happy bunny at the moment and I look forward to the next time I fire up ACC!

 

[Fanapryde]

Maybe they're waiting for better fps?

Since proper triple screen support is not going to happen, I deleted ACC.
Spending my time on sims that have this function.

 

[JoelGL]

...
So, I went for the middle ground and bought myself 32:9 Samsung gaming monitor, when it was on sale a 1 or 2 wees ago. And what a game changer that is!
...

Can you post shots of the view with the single-wide monitor? And what model (size/reso does it have)?

 

[DrRob]

Can you post shots of the view with the single-wide monitor? And what model (size/reso does it have)?

Joel,

I went for the budget option and got the Samsung C49HG90DMU.
It is a 49" monitor with 1080 pixels vertical. On paper it has a sub-par pixel density compared to modern monitors. I tested it prior to buying and found it to be acceptable for sim racing. I would choose a higher pixel model for a classical desktop application however.

I apologize, I do not have any pics at the moment. I bought the monitor because it was on sale and I didn't want to miss the opportunity. Still not decided on a full rig, so have to improvise at the moment.
I can tell you, that my viewing distance is approx. 100 cm. In ACC I use a slightly wider FOV than calculated to also see the driver side mirror.
If you want to see some good pictures, the 'show your rig' thread in the hardware section offers some with this monitor (last 15-20 pages or so).

Hope this helps.

 

[DrRob]

Just a comment on Superwide 32:9 monitor and EdTracker: Tried it yesterday and was not so impressed as I was with a normal 16:9 setup.

Personally I think it is not worth it. On the superwide I have the front screen covered almost entirely plus mostly rear view mirrors (depending on the car).
When I look left and right the view is mostly obstructed by the safety net and the upper seat head protectors anyway. Can't see through the side windows that way.
Ok, driver side mirror is better visible and you get a tad more immersion feel, granted.

For now my EdTracker gets sidelined.