Spa Eau Rouge flat out??

[Kek700]

With mediums I need to lift just a bit when turning left at bottom hill...
I don't say it isn't possible to do flat out with mediums but not with my setup though. With softs it goes quite easily flat out ;-)

I have already asked this so I apologize for that.

With "softs" I still cannot take it flat out.
I have tried every approach. Tried turning in at the bottom in an exaggerated way.
Tried pushing over the right curb half way up which just upsets the car.
Tried straight lining it from the bottom to top.

cutting the corner illegally at the bottom or illegally cut the corner at the top or at run wide
at the last bit of the track, which I can manage, but obviously that's a No Go.
.

It seems every man and his dog takes it flat out on YouTube

 

[garyjpaterson]

Easy flat in a Transit.

 

[GT VIRUS]

In what car? Under what grip settings? There are far too many things you haven't told us

 

[RasmusP]

It's really tricky I admit! The key, in the end, is to have the least amount of turning during the uphill section while all four tyres are at their limit.
First thing is the setup. It should be at the edge of oversteer during the uphill section. The problem starts when you don't know whether to lower the rear wing or to soften the front anti roll bar... Testing is needed! Also a top soft or too stiff suspension will lead to too low mechanical grip.

The second thing is the line which really is difficult at the beginning. I didn't drove gt3s at spa for some months but I remember that you needed to get the correct slope at the lefthander part. Middle of the track, turning in left, going quite far to the left and then the key is that you are already slightly turning right before the righthand corner starts.
Imagine you draw the perfect line just for the uphill section and you'll find the perfect spot to begin that section somewhere on the left side.
At that point you should be something like:
- already turning to the right
- car settled on the left side
- tyres are at about 50% of their grip limit

So the car is already doing a righthand turn but the tyres still have headroom to make the "bite" when going uphill. You need to time this "start of the righthander" correctly.
If it's too late you will go wide as the car still needs time to settle on the left side. If it's too early the tyres will already be too close to their limit. Resulting in sliding wide or clipping the inside kerb.
If you are too far to the left you will go over the left kerb at the top. If you are too far to the right you will hit the inside kerb.

If you do any corrections the car will not be settled enough and therefore some of the above mentioned will happen.

Sorry that I can't just provide a setup and video but that's what I remember from practicing it. It is possible but it was quite tricky! Maybe my kinda long explanation helps
Do you use acti? If yes feel free to upload the telemetry data from some tries of yours and I'll check for mistakes

Also: in a mclaren it's really easy. Lots of downforce! In a lambo? Not so easy!
Which car did you use? I know it is the last club race you are talking about. 100% grip and Temperatur in the mid 20s, probably slightly before melting the soft tyres.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/eau-rouge-flat-out-in-488-gt3.124418/

 

[Kek700]

Cannot do it in the "transit" either,
always having to stop halfway up the hill to pick up an old bedstead.

Nissan GT-R gt3, I always run it with a stiff front setup and low rear wing.

Billy thanks for the live replay, pretty much as I take Eau Rouge, but with a different conclusion.

Rasmus thank you for the excellent description, hoped it would be a one syllable answer.

"Obviously not", I will have to keep practicing as it appears to be from your explanation
a small but perfectly timed input at the base of Eau Rouge with a perfect line up the hill.

Unfortunately a small subtle input is at the other end of my skill spectrum. But I will
have to practice a lot and keep reading your description

Will post a triumphant video if I manage it consistently

Just one other point is that I get that oversteer with a slight lift at the bottom but with full power
the rear of the car is stuck down even with a low wing setting.

 

[RasmusP]

Nissan GT-R gt3, I always run it with a stiff front setup and low rear wing.

Just one other point is that I get that oversteer with a slight lift at the bottom but with full power
the rear of the car is stuck down even with a low wing setting

So you use the heaviest GT3 which also has the most power. It's pretty much the most difficult to go flat out with it as its weight pushes the most to the outside while the most power pushes it over the limit at the same time.
Maybe try the BMW Z4 or the McLaren 650s and when you can do it, switch back to the Nissan. I'm not 100% sure if it's even possible to do with the Nissan to be honest.

Second thing:
The more aero, the better your chances to go flat out. The balance is another thing but the base is: more aero = more grip.
So you have the heaviest car with low aero. I doubt it's even possible with this combination!

You seem to balance the low rear wing with a stiff front spring making the "bite" less apparent when starting to go uphill.
Maybe try the opposite: High rear wing and then lowered front spring and front anti roll bar!

And 3rd:
From my little experience with the Nissan GT3 I remember that it needs to be 'driven with the right foot' so it's kinda understeery until you unleash its power. In Eau Rouge though you won't have enough power for a small drift so it will just be extremely understeering.

I'd really recommend to practice with a different car until you got the line right and then see if you can do it with the Nissan. I doubt it... Just the most difficult car to do it

 

[Zoltan76]

With medium on almost flat out, but with soft on not?!
Soft tyres have better grip or what?

 

[RasmusP]

With medium on almost flat out, but with soft on not?!
Soft tyres have better grip or what?

His first few lines are a quote from the club racing thread I think. I remember reading similar words in that thread. It's confusing like this, I agree

 

[Kek700]

Oh! sorry about “ that “ it seemed obviouse to me. Then i supose it would.

I run inverse ARB , meaning stiff front suspension soft ARB, softish rear suspension with stiff rear ARB.

It maybe that it just does not suit the entry to Eau Rouge, i dont loose that much time , about
3 or 4 tenths, but i can I’ll afford to loose that.

 

[Kek700]

Will try it with more rear wing, i can run upto 6 or 7 ( run it at 3 ) without loosing
too much speed at the end of the straight ( about 2 mph max )

 

[Zoltan76]

I can go through absolute flat out.
In Clio cup.

 

[Kek700]

Nope, no go, tried running varying degrees of toe at the front,wing at 9, the car is also pretty low
at the front also.
Unless I lift slightly at the turn at the bottom of Eau Rouge then I can make it legally.
If I do not lift slightly all I get is initial understeer which then compromises the corner.

I have run out of skill it's not the car, as other people can achieve it in a Nissan GT-R.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Hammer the kerb in Eau Rouge itself ( Eau Rouge is the left at the foot of the hill ), then as you get into the compression use that to make a fairly sharp right, and roll off the wheel as you uncompress so you don't lose lateral traction.

GT3s won't let you set packing rates unfortunately ( the car is very likely to be on the stops there! ) - but if you're understeering there you're likely to be understeering elsewhere too, so some general work to reduce that would help a lot. I can't quite go through there flat on GT3 hards without getting a track limit warning at the apex of Radillon but mediums & below should be ok.

Having said that I've hardly driven the GT-R, I think you're going to have to abuse the entry kerb badly & be inch perfect turning right.

Edit: messed a bit more with it, managed a run through flat out - once. The problem I'm seeing with the setup I'm using is that the front of the car actually lifts off the track coming over the Radillon hump, which is why it's going straight across the apex rather than continuing to turn ( it's got plenty of grip if the wheels stay on the road ). That might be an avenue for you to look at. Not sure which line I took when I made it through, I might have gone out of limits in Eau Rouge itself to get a better entry.

 

[Kek700]

Edit: messed a bit more with it, managed a run through flat out - once. The problem I'm seeing with the setup I'm using is that the front of the car actually lifts off the track coming over the Radillon hump, which is why it's going straight across the apex rather than continuing to turn ( it's got plenty of grip if the wheels stay on the road ). That might be an avenue for you to look at. Not sure which line I took when I made it through, I might have gone out of limits in Eau Rouge itself to get a better entry.

Next week i will use ACTI, which Rasmus suggested anyway, and investigate the above, which makes
sense to me from what i have also observed. And to see if anything strange is happening at Radillon
and Eau rouge. At Eau rouge the car certainly does not want to turn without a lift, but that
may turn out not to be the case!

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Fiddled with whatever setup I was using ( was some random thing from TheSetupMarket originally, it isn't anymore ) & can just squeak through now - as expected stiffer rear springs helped, just have to drop some rear ARB so it's not an oversteery mess. *Slightly* out of limits, but that's probably tweakable, I didn't spend much time on this.

That's on softs/98% grip/21C ambient.

If you took the Eau Rouge kerb like that IRL you'd probably end up breaking the car at some point ( as has happened a couple of times in recent races ) but hey, let's enjoy the freedom while we can

 

[RasmusP]

Fiddled with whatever setup I was using ( was some random thing from TheSetupMarket originally, it isn't anymore ) & can just squeak through now - as expected stiffer rear springs helped, just have to drop some rear ARB so it's not an oversteery mess. *Slightly* out of limits, but that's probably tweakable, I didn't spend much time on this.

That's on softs/98% grip/21C ambient.

Are you still able to drive a full quick lap with that setup? As I explained above the Nissan for me is meant to be "steered with the throttle" which would make a perfect eau rouge setup way too oversteery for normal turns.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Are you still able to drive a full quick lap with that setup? As I explained above the Nissan for me is meant to be "steered with the throttle" which would make a perfect eau rouge setup way too oversteery for normal turns.

Well, reasonably quick - I don't know the car at all, but the overall balance is the same. Pushes a bit out of slow corners but that's probably just some damper tweaks unless the car just does that anyway. It made it happier through Blanchimont & whatever turn 16 is called these days, presumably just because the car isn't sinking down at the rear so much as the wing starts working & lifting the splitter away from the tarmac.

 

[Kek700]

With my setup it is always slow to turn in
on fast bends, you really have to be very patient.
On slower bends the throttle can be used to turn the car, in fact because I lack feel, it is difficult for me not to over do it. But I love the car because
It tends to be very easy to drive and never bites.

Tend to run with wing at 5 for max performance
Any more and it just slows the car too much.
and as “said” can make the car push to much in
some bends.

But I am not that quick, so a quicker driver
may turn all that I have said completely around
the other way

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

@Kek700 could you share your setup? I've done quite a bit of setup work for GTR on tricky tracks, and there is a ton of small things that can go wrong in a corner like eau rouge.

For spa i'm comfortable (after warmup) going flat out on mediums and not fully rubbered track with soft front suspension (118 spring) but it took a lot of work to get everything straight.
There might be something "easy" to change in your setup to help in eau rouge.