Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 for AMS

Cars Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 for AMS 1.04

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Reb.Ellion

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Reb.Ellion submitted a new resource:

Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 for AMS - Octavia Cup 2018

View attachment 284913 View attachment 284914
Hi Guys,
Today I present to you the Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 for AMS.
Original from ACCentral.cz Modding team for AC.
Thank you for the permission to convert the mod to Automobilista.
Special thanks to ACCentral.cz Modding team:

Roman "Fuzo" Fusaty - 3D graphics and animations.
Tomas "LumpTom" Hrouda - 3D graphics.
Physics was created and finetuned by Santi_glza.
Conversion to AMS from me (Rebellion).


Unfortunately, I could not...
Read more about this resource...
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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I was about to write asking why the transmission does not behave like a normal DSG, but thought I better confirm that it was a DSG (as in other VW-based series). I encountered this article:

http://www.octaviacup.cz/en/news/th...eering-is-in-charge-of-development-and-setup/

So, did you purposely make the transmission misbehave as per the real car, or was it just an oversight? And should we have two versions--the current one and an option for a 2018 car that works properly?
 

Reb.Ellion

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I have passed your questions to the man responsible for physics.
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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I have passed your questions to the man responsible for physics.
Thanks for looking into it. It would be kind of cool if it was programmed to match the real car on purpose. iRacing did that with the Jetta TDI DSG--the digital display has a mistake in the real car, so they replicated it.

However, having a 2018 version that shifts normally at least as an option would also be very nice.
 

Reb.Ellion

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Aug 30, 2015
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Reb.Ellion updated Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 for AMS with a new update entry:

Skoda Octavia Cup 2018 v1.03

CHANGES:

*IA improve
*improvement in aerodynamics and diffuser
*set up more balanced (spring rate,toe,caster,camber,antirolls)
*grip optimization
*Ajustament differentials
*Added two gearbox dsg (automatic or paddels )
* Added possibility to choose automatic gears or control traccion with the
launchcontrol
*Ajusted cam driver eye
Recommended adjustments :
*110% difficulty IA
*Aggression high
*Upgrades mirror shworoom (two gearbox dsg)
1 DSG gearbox automatic
2 DSG gearbox...
Read the rest of this update entry...
 
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Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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Wow, so many great improvements!

Thanks for addressing the DSG gearbox issue so quickly! I have a labelling suggestion, though, but first a question: can AMS simulate a sequential transmission where no clutch is required at the start, but is not an actual automatic (like in the Camaro)? If not, then what we have here is as good as it can get. If clutchless starts can be added, then they should because that's how this car works.

The two new options should be called:

2017 DSG (lift-to-shift) sequential - (instead of Auto)
2018 DSG sequential - (instead of Paddle Shifting)

Both/all DSG race installations use paddles, so calling only one paddles is confusing. Neither are auto, even though the DSG has an auto mode in street cars, it is not used in the race cars.

Despite the labels, we now have the realistic malfunctioning 2017 DSG and the normal one used in 2018 onward! Great work!

You can decide which to make the default, but I suspect most would prefer the "normal" one (2018).

Now for part 2 - the set-up option for automatic shifting. Was that ever used in the race series? It does allow the car to launch properly as a DSG (what I was talking about above), but then does not allow manual shifts after that. As far as I know, every auto shifting algorithm in any car (street or race) will allow manual shifts to override the automatic shifts.

The 2018/Paddle Shift version above with auto shifting OFF works perfectly as the real race car, except for the need for clutch to get going in first gear. Why do we need the auto shifting option? I don't really care because I won't use it, but if you put this in the set-up menu, it causes heartburn for people online who can't control what is effectively an assist.
 
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Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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Different topic: Can the AI be further sped-up so they function well at 100% instead of 110%?

The other changes to the car are great. I am writing all this because the car is good (and fun) enough to get excited about having another realistic FWD series in AMS. A few tweaks and some extra teams and skins and it could become very popular!
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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Well maybe I can answer you. first to be able to simulate correctly a box dsg the physical engine should be able to progam double clutch one mechanical and another electronic this in AMS is not possible, the only solution is to do something that seems to be playing with the variables

well with regard to your first question I think you should activate the autocluch on exit to be able to exit without stepping on clutch

I will revise the files because with the automatic change I should be able to let it be manual too

With respect to the second one, it was proposed with several options so that there could be possibilities to simulate the automatic dsg change or with palettes for everyone could choose.

I know that there is no automatic car with paddles but I think that people who want to simulate the automatic dsg will appreciate it as well as the launch control.

if it is an option that does not like rebellion who owns the mod can remove it I have no problem

to finish I want to add that the objective of the mod on my part was to make a competitive car, fun and with several in the configurations and a broad set up. I'm glad you're having fun
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative reply.

If there is no way in AMS to program a clutchless launch for a traditional sequential transmission (that was my understanding), we can just live with the current two choices. I can use the clutch at launch and then enjoy regular sequential behaviour as is in the real car. It's really up to Reiza to add that functionality, but I am not surprised it was not yet a priority because the VW-based DSG series are the only ones that I am aware of that need it. Maybe this model will evolve to such a great racer that Reiza will want to license the actual series?!?! ;)

As mentioned, the automatic option in set-up is only a concern for online racing "cheating." I am happy to use the car offline, but others may care more to be able have the option controlled by the online server settings.

Thanks for working on this car--it is now very fun to race.
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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the new IA in AMS is a headache, but I'll review the files, thanks for your comments
I know!

Back to earlier topic: another line from HDV: AllowManualOverride=0

If this is set to 1 and auto shifting on upshift only is selected, and it remains at such a high rpm as now, we might have the realistic solution.

The auto-shift only kicks in at very high rpm (you should have shifted by then), but if you don't shift, we can pretend it is an emergency up-shift to protect the engine ;)

I am going to try it now and will report back here.
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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624
Here is the simple answer to get the most accurate 2018 DSG simulation:

In HDV file, set:
[CONTROLS]
UpshiftAlgorithm=(1.0,0)
[DRIVELINE]
AllowManualOverride=1

In Upgrades file for the second option (that I recommend calling 2018) set:
HDV=[DRIVELINE]
HDV=SemiAutomatic=1
HDV=UpshiftDelay=0.050
HDV=UpshiftClutchTime=0.000
HDV=UpshiftLiftThrottle=0.000
HDV=DownshiftDelay=0.120
HDV=DownshiftClutchTime=0.080
HDV=DownshiftBlipThrottle=0.98

In Setup, use Automatic Upshifts Only

Other than the car will up-shift by itself if you leave it at red line (forgot to shift), it behaves exactly as the DSG should. And maybe the real cars do have a safety up-shift, so that might also be realistic?

I would hope you (both) would consider building this as the default option, but if you do not, no concerns because I now have it for myself anyway. Of course, it does not prevent any other configuration from being used, including full automatic.

The steps could be repeated to make it work for the 2017 option, but do not change its HDV=[DRIVELINE] settings in the Upgrade file because the jerky delayed shifts (that you really should lift to shift for) were part of the real car's badly done transmission programming!!
 

Marc Collins

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Aug 25, 2011
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Well I have tried to be nice and explain that it is not possible to simulate a DSG change because the ams engine is not possible to simulate gearbox with double clutch and double gearbox. then we can only trmapear the variables to get a "realistic" feeling
as
I see that you do not know how a gearbox works dsg hare a brief explanation

A DSG, or dual-clutch gearbox is, in simplistic terms, a manual transmission with two clutch packs to control odd and even gears. Inside the car the driver only sees a brake and a throttle with the gear selection via the dual clutches, one controlling odd gears (one, three, five and reverse, for example) and the other one controlling even gears (two, four, and six).

The gear change is based on engine speed, wheel speed, brake application, throttle position and hydraulic actuators which, depending on the information gleaned by the sensors, will be commanded to select either a higher or lower gear.


If you pull apart to dual-clutch transmission, you'll see the 'drive' shafts are sleeved, meaning that the shaft that holds one set of gears (odd or even) sits inside the other one, and that once together it ends up looking like a single drive shaft; almost like you've upturned two glasses and stacked one on top of the other. Almost, but you get the idea. Similarly, one of the clutches sits inside the other, the inner clutch activates the outer drive shaft, and the outer clutch activates the inner drive shaft.

Well I hope you have understood that you say that my box is badly programmed but your gearbox has these two variables at zero HDV = UpshiftClutchTime = 0.000
HDV = UpshiftLiftThrottle = 0.000,
for a box dsg are not realistic because with the time of upshift and lift we can give the "feeling" of how long it takes the electronic clutch (own dsg gearbox) to act.
HDV = DownshiftBlipThrottle = 0.98 too much blip this variable so high interferes with the differential so it is not realistic
UpshiftAlgorithm = (1.0,0) This is simply a physical aberration
HDV = UpshiftDelay = 0.050 variable too low
so its gearbox from the physical point is also poorly programmed.

AllowManualOverride = 1 in this you are right I have made a mistake I forgot. To finish if you want to change the mod to your liking it's fine, I've already told you the objective of the mod is for everyone not only for real "simracers" Like you, I suggest that if you have more problems with the physics or if you want to make a discussion of automotive physics you can talk to me privately
I wasn't suggesting that a proper simulation of a DSG was possible--and yes I already knew exactly how they worked. From the driver's point of view, the technical details are irrelevant. A DSG performs exactly the same as the sequential transmissions in many other AMS cars with one exception, which is no need to use the clutch to launch. Everything else is just clutchless manual shifts, same as most modern race cars.

The values I inserted for up-shift and down-shift times were related to a sequential transmission. They could be replaced by more accurate numbers (I will), but the key is that a DSG will up-shift and down-shift as fast or faster than most racing sequential transmissions. There is controversy about the actual timing, but the longest possible shift time from any credible source is 600 ms. Many suggest much faster. I will refine the values, but the jerky and delayed shifts the original version had were not characteristic of a properly functioning DSG. The 2017 race series programming was botched, which did result in the need to lift-to-shift to prevent the jerkiness that is normally not present (since the whole purpose of the DSG design is to execute rapid shifts).

The mod is great, and I am pleased that I can do a simple work-around to get a realistic behaviour of the 2018 transmission. Just need to tweak a few of the values further.

Thanks again for all the hard work on this and the latest update.

P.S., the UpshiftAlgorithm is not a physical aberration (not even sure what that means?). It controls the percentage of max rpm that the automatic transmission up-shifts at. I set it to 100% (1.0) so I can still manual shift--the car will only shift if I run right to the limit and do not shift at a normal time. The value that was there already, 98%, is not optimal for this engine. It's past the torque and power sweet spot where wide-open throttle shifting should occur. Of course, the AMS automatic transmission algorithm is hopelessly simplified and doesn't work very well regardless.
 
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