Sim Racing 240Hz - Compared To 60Hz / 100Hz + Monitors?

Mr Latte

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Here is a query to find out who has experienced 240Hz gaming with racing titles, is it worth it and how much GPU/CPU spec is needed?
I assume most supporting monitors will be 1440p.

I kinda expect that only older titles even with the highest spec hardware could manage something like triples @ 240Hz or the upcoming super ultrawide 32:9 G9 monitor.

Did find this but with 240Hz now the thing how much better/desirable is it over resolution or HDR and image quality?
 
Here is a query to find out who has experienced 240Hz gaming with racing titles, is it worth it and how much GPU/CPU spec is needed?
I assume most supporting monitors will be 1440p.

I kinda expect that only older titles even with the highest spec hardware could manage something like triples @ 240Hz or the upcoming super ultrawide 32:9 G9 monitor.

Did find this but with 240Hz now the thing how much better/desirable is it over resolution or HDR and image quality?

I have limited experience with high performance displays however the real world improvement over 100hz must be very small.I would trade off the cost of super fast displays with many other system upgrades.
 
I would agree with that. Was quite happy with a 60hz monitor until I got my current 144 hz monitor.
Did some test a while ago.
60 to 75hz felt like a good improvement.
75 to 90hz was very little difference
Somewhere between 90 and 100hz it was all the same as 144hz to me.
Sometimes I could feel if it was 90 or 144hz but I could never for sure say if it was 100 or 144hz.
The friend I did the test with was pretty happy with 75hz and didn't feel 144hz was an improvement.
We are both in the early 60'ish which may matter?
So no I would have no benefit of 240hz.
HDR on the other hand is very nice and really worth it.
 
So anyone else have experience or thoughts to share with 100-240Hz
240hz monitors tend to be 1080p - & I suspect 1440p*3 @ 240 fps is probably beyond even a modern top of the range PC.
Is your aim to compare the performance of a 1440p monitor @144hz against a 240hz 1080p monitor, quality vs quantity*?

*Edit: In terms of pixels per second they are roughly the same - 530,841,600 vs 497,664,000.
 
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240hz monitors tend to be 1080p - & I suspect 1440p*3 @ 240 fps is probably beyond even a modern top of the range PC.
Is your aim to compare the performance of a 1440p monitor @144hz against a 240hz 1080p monitor, quality vs quantity*?

*Edit: In terms of pixels per second they are roughly the same - 530,841,600 vs 497,664,000.

The aim is just to get people's opinions having tried 240Hz or if it's worth considering for sim racing.
I don't really care about the res factor. The new 49" monitor from Samsung will be 240Hz and yes it is only with some less demanding titles a person could probably achieve its native res.

More 240Hz montors will be coming but they seem more suited to FPS like the linked video highlights.
 
It is quite unlikely most people would reliably tell a difference between 144 Hz and 240 Hz.

Also don't forget that you're quite unlikely to even reach such framerates in sims.
 
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It is quite unlikely most people would reliably tell a difference between 144 Hz and 240 Hz.

Also don't forget that you're quite unlikely to even reach such framerates in sims.

Understandably most people to achieve 240hz fluidity will switch to 1080p resolution.
I would expect the 3000 series GPU to make it possible to achieve 240Hz on certain sims and yes it may require dropping the res to 1080p or graphical quality. Even though we are seeing monitors advertised like the Samsung G7 * G9 to offer a reported 1ms GSYNC and up to 240Hz @ 1440P specification.

You can even buy 240Hz projectors now but they will only support 1080p or 4K 60Hz

Its fine to say you don't think there will be much difference but the point of the thread is seeking user experience on the topic and if image sharpness or smoothness is there preference.

What I cant seem to get is actual feedback from a "sim" perspective on users that have compared 240Hz to 144/120. Its a massive jump up from 60Hz that most people still game hence I am curious if its just techno fluff and most people will opt for 1440p with 100Hz or more being the most optimal experience of visual fidelity and smoothness.
 
GPU won't be your main problem with reaching consistent 240+ fps in sims. CPU will.

So are you telling me, right now 240Hz is not possible on ANY sims?
Additionally, that achieving framerates beyond 120Hz/144Hz will be pointless?

Ive yet to see this covered in-depth or people offering their own user perspectives.
Sure, plenty of 60-120-144Hz comparisons but not what or if benefits beyond these and up to 240Hz are worth it.
 
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I really don't think that's what I said. I'm saying you will have issues reaching 240 fps consistently on most of them, and it won't be due to GPU.
 
I really don't think that's what I said. I'm saying you will have issues reaching 240 fps consistently on most of them, and it won't be due to GPU.

I didn't say you did, I asked you a question as I dont know what sims or resolutions on current high-end spec machine will achieve.
Im aware of CPU limitations as well. Also few monitor reviews will be in relation to performance with sim racing.

240Hz is the peak, its still possible of going beyond the 144Hz threshold that has been the "deemed peak" in performance for the last few years. I understand fast first-person shooter style games will suit this maybe more than racing but that does not mean some people might enjoy using a 240Hz display for beyond 144Hz and a general reason to buy one.

 
What I cant seem to get is actual feedback from a "sim" perspective on users that have compared 240Hz to 144/120. Its a massive jump up from 60Hz that most people still game hence I am curious if its just techno fluff and most people will opt for 1440p with 100Hz or more being the most optimal experience of visual fidelity and smoothness.

It's just techno fluff. We already went through this when the 144 Hz adaptive sync monitors initially came out and nearly nobody could distinguish a difference in refresh rates above 120 Hz. That was 2015-2016, when 165 Hz displays started popping up.

In general, once you get above 90 Hz, very few people can perceive a difference in gaming performance. Flicker, though, is observable out to about 500 Hz under certain conditions. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep07861
 
@Mr Latte You asked me a weird question that suggested I said something very different than what I said.

And honestly, if you really are familiar with all the things that have been said, then from what you're saying, it kinda seems like you've already made the decision to get the 240 Hz monitor anyway, but somehow are still hoping someone will tell you not to do it. I'm not sure that's going to happen, so go get it and enjoy it for what it is (which, again, you seem to be well aware of, or at least claim to be).
 
@Mr Latte You asked me a weird question that suggested I said something very different than what I said.

And honestly, if you really are familiar with all the things that have been said, then from what you're saying, it kinda seems like you've already made the decision to get the 240 Hz monitor anyway, but somehow are still hoping someone will tell you not to do it. I'm not sure that's going to happen, so go get it and enjoy it for what it is (which, again, you seem to be well aware of, or at least claim to be).

Actually you seem to be against the idea of getting one or it being worth having, but the fact is improved 240Hz models are coming to market and will be available from several manufacturers. The Samsung G9 or G7 do look to be rather sweet but the majority of people that buy them wont buy them because they are 240Hz but the latest models.

That does not mean people will be able to run much software on them at their peak 240Hz or with native resolution. All depending on the rest of their hardware and of course what their screens native resolution is. I would expect people that buy into the higher end CPU/GPUs will also not mind one bit if they have a monitor that can perform constantly above 144Hz.

As yet not a single person to comment has reflected from user experience offering their own views comparisons with sim or arcade racing titles from 60-240Hz and using different resolutions. That's what I had hoped to find with this thread in hearing their own actual user experiences and views.

Yes and it may well be that the optimal approach is a balance of resolution and a constant frame rate above 120Hz and with racing titles it also may determine what view/perspective your gaming from how much more noticeable a higher refresh is. I guess not many have tried it and yes I haven't disagreed with views that the differences going beyond 120Hz may not be that great or that it may be down to individuals' own perceptions. Estimated speculation may be quite accurate but it's not reflecting actual user experience and that's what this thread was asking.

Why would 200Hz+ motion not help with noticing better braking markers, why would a 200Hz+ motion not help with catching an apex with smoother steering? If it's proven to help accuracy in shooters and consistency for competitive players (user dependent) tell me again why it can't help (some users) with consistency in racing?

Its curiosity and Im curious because few people seem to have content or discussion on it regards sim/arcade racing and actual testing.
@ionONE1
 
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I had 60hz on 1080p then went to 144hz 1080p and was amazed. Then went to 120hz 1440p and was even more amazed. I tried a 240hz 1080p but the 1080p is just...no. The difference however in refresh rates is very noticable from 60hz up to 144hz. BUT from 144hz to 240hz ...I could not tell the difference in any game be it FPS or racing.
The 240hz 1080p is for the hardcore FPS boys doing tournements imo.

Now running triple 1440p 144hz and I only get 75fps in ACC so not making most use of it YET but with gsync it´s smooth as butter. I was planning to up the cpu and gpu when they release new bits later this year and also get 144fps in acc.
 
Actually you seem to be against the idea of getting one or it being worth having, but the fact is improved 240Hz models are coming to market and will be available from several manufacturers. The Samsung G9 or G7 do look to be rather sweet but the majority of people that buy them wont buy them because they are 240Hz but the latest models.

That does not mean people will be able to run much software on them at their peak 240Hz or with native resolution. All depending on the rest of their hardware and of course what their screens native resolution is. I would expect people that buy into the higher end CPU/GPUs will also not mind one bit if they have a monitor that can perform constantly above 144Hz.

As yet not a single person to comment has reflected from user experience offering their own views comparisons with sim or arcade racing titles from 60-240Hz and using different resolutions. That's what I had hoped to find with this thread in hearing their own actual user experiences and views.

Yes and it may well be that the optimal approach is a balance of resolution and a constant frame rate above 120Hz and with racing titles it also may determine what view/perspective your gaming from how much more noticeable a higher refresh is. I guess not many have tried it and yes I haven't disagreed with views that the differences going beyond 120Hz may not be that great or that it may be down to individuals' own perceptions. Estimated speculation may be quite accurate but it's not reflecting actual user experience and that's what this thread was asking.

Why would 200Hz+ motion not help with noticing better braking markers, why would a 200Hz+ motion not help with catching an apex with smoother steering? If it's proven to help accuracy in shooters and consistency for competitive players (user dependent) tell me again why it can't help (some users) with consistency in racing?

Its curiosity and Im curious because few people seem to have content or discussion on it regards sim/arcade racing and actual testing.
@ionONE1
You seem to have made your mind up but I don't think a >200 frame rate will make you notice brake markers better or hit apex's better. Human reaction time is in the 200ms to 250ms range. So when you consider the difference in frame time between even a 60hz monitor and a 240hz monitor is a little over 12ms it is never going to make any difference. Even the finest honed of us will not achieve under 5% consistency in our reaction time - so seeing that brake marker potentially 10ms earlier will make nada difference. I don't think you would even notice a difference in fluidity - even assuming you could maintain that frame rate at all times. The smoothness difference between 90Hz to 120Hz is not noticeable to many. The smoothness difference between 120Hz to 240Hz will be noticeable to almost nobody.
 
Why would 200Hz+ motion not help with noticing better braking markers, why would a 200Hz+ motion not help with catching an apex with smoother steering? If it's proven to help accuracy in shooters and consistency for competitive players (user dependent) tell me again why it can't help (some users) with consistency in racing?

Because your steering inputs are not physically made at 200 Hz. If you need to act within milliseconds as in some shooters, then there is an argument to be made for such a refresh rate, although it's splitting hairs at above 144 Hz. But racing quickly isn't primarily about having fast reactions, it's a common misconception.

If you drive by reacting to very recent information on the screen, you are already too late. Racing is about anticipating where the car will be next, not so much about pure reaction speed. It's more about programming your mind to learn the track unconsciously, so you don't have to react late to anything. Whatever driving maneuver you make, you need to make it well in advance as the car isn't instantly reacting like when you move the camera in a shooter. Michael Schumacher for example had poor reactions for a racing driver according to some biographies and interviews I read, which is why he lost out so much at starts, but that was the only moment in a race where his less than good reactions mattered, otherwise he could compensate all that with his excellent feel of the car.

Bottom line, people spend way too much time worrying about equipment when the real gains to be made are almost never on that side, more on improving yourself as a driver.
 
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Because your steering inputs are not physically made at 200 Hz. If you need to act within milliseconds as in some shooters, then there is an argument to be made for such a refresh rate, although it's splitting hairs at above 144 Hz. But racing quickly isn't primarily about having fast reactions, it's a common misconception.

If you drive by reacting to very recent information on the screen, you are already too late. Racing is about anticipating where the car will be next, not so much about pure reaction speed. It's more about programming your mind to learn the track unconsciously, so you don't have to react late to anything. Whatever driving maneuver you make, you need to make it well in advance as the car isn't instantly reacting like when you move the camera in a shooter. Michael Schumacher for example had poor reactions for a racing driver according to some biographies and interviews I read, which is why he lost out so much at starts, but that was the only moment in a race where his less than good reactions mattered, otherwise he could compensate all that with his excellent feel of the car.

Bottom line, people spend way too much time worrying about equipment when the real gains to be made are almost never on that side, more on improving yourself as a driver.

Thanks for responding, I appreciate the analysis but again what I seek is finding someone that has done deep testing and not just tried 200Hz for 5-10mins but spent time in doing detailed comparisons. Have two systems up and running for immediate A/B comparisons doing their own lap times or general playtime. As when you adjust to using the highest Hz possible after a 30 min gaming session, how does it feel going down to the lower framerates?

A user may not always put much effort into such tests to properly ascertain this and I suspect will do quick one and then another approach with little time put into it.

I'm not aware of any sim channel yet that has focused on this, although some may have covered such at 144Hz. Even then some say 60Hz to 90Hz is more than fine and above this is much less crucial.

I am aware that the industry is currently in this high frame rate buzz and even 360Hz displays being mentioned as coming.
The display manufacturers need a new gimmick as the 4K thing is now becoming affordable and a norm even for consoles. With larger screen TVs dropping greatly in price.

One point to factor, is these displays keep improving, so perspectives formed on older tech may not also relate the same to the newest models? Hardware is reaching the point to make it more possible on various titles. Do we just ignore the idea that people could buy and fully use a 240Hz display and consider them being stupid for wanting to even fully experience what they purchased?

Now the general feedback is that it won't make much if any difference to the vast number of users. I too strongly believe this may be the case, I haven't argued it, yet I want validation from users, not just the theoretical perspectives and another factor may be down to different game engines being used and as stated the views within the sim.

If we approach the scenario that it will be possible in the coming years, then what you and most others are potentially saying is, there's no point having 1080p or 1440p with 200Hz+ refresh because 100-120Hz is a general satisfaction peak. Based on that train of thought, then a higher-res screen like a 4K or more display running at 120-144Hz will be better as visual fidelity is deemed more important over the (even higher) framerate.

Yet not many gamers found the first 4K to be a really big jump neither, especially as limited to about 60Hz, some did enjoy it and some preferred the combination of both with an increase of a 21:9 wider aspect ratio, moderately better res with a balanced 1440p resolution and the 120+ framerate being achieved.

I get the impression people are thinking, dude your stupid you won't listen but let me ask you guys something. How stupid is it to go out and buy triple 1440p monitors and then blow over £1100 alone on a top-end GPU to get 50-70fps or about 50% of the capability of the display on a title like ACC? Would it not be wiser to run with triple 1080p and get much closer to the peak display framerate.

We clearly live in an age that GPU manufacturers will charge a fortune for a performance that falls well short in what it should deliver. Yet some people will always want to combine whats best in specs, regardless if it makes sense.

Look how many people already bought 144Hz displays and are using triple 1080p or triple 1440p configurations. Many will not achieve even close to the peak framerates you guys talk about with the display at native and it appears lots of people are moving to buy 1440p over 1080p with the idea that a future GPU will run these better. Some will be forced to drop their resolution down to 1080p or vastly lower graphical detail to achieve better framerates. So yes we have a community/culture that often will lower refresh rates for visual impact or clarity. With FPS titles this may be the opposite.

I find it a bit amusing to criticize if some people become curious or might want the ability to try a 240Hz experience on a 240Hz display. Basically to use it, for what its intended purpose is. Especially when we have a community that sees it fine to buy into using very demanding multiple display configurations to then use them in a less than optimal way. I think its fair to say that "Immersion" can differ to each individual as to what is more immersive or appealing to them and often the "wow" factor or bragging rights, determines a purchase over if it's really a wise one.

2020 Monitor Options
For me, it appears the newest Samsung G9 SuperUltrawide seems to be trying to bridge this gap allowing the user to achieve a high visual fidelity with 1000 HDR and the more exciting 1000 based curve. I doubt it will be anything like 1ms as rated but it's offering a resolution that's just over the triple 1080p pixel count (but possibly with better game support) and well below the over-demanding triple 1440p pixel count.

Sure it lacks the full visual impact of triples but it can also be used with a lower resolution/game settings like the 2018 model offered (3840x1080) if a higher refresh is demanded. At this resolution, this is not far away from the popular 21:9 1440p pixel count and improving on its visual impact with wider display. So potentially is this going to become the ideal allrounder for aspect ratio, screen fidelity, and high supported framerate with G-Sync and FreeSync support?

Pricewise too it will be cheaper than some triple-monitor 144Hz options.


21:9 Large screen
2560x1440 = 3686400

32:9 49" Samsung (2018)
3840x1080 = 4147200

Triple 1080P
5760x1080 = 6220800

32:9 49" Samsung (2020)
5120x1440 = 7372800

4K
3840x2160 = 8294400

Triple 1440p
7680x1440 = 11059200
 
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