Race #5, Turkey: Post-Race Checks

[Stephane Rouault]

And so reasoning and common sense loses out again.

I've had a lot of fun in this league since 2006. But at the point where it's not fun, but simply too frustrating and pointless, its time to quit.

 

[Atze Kerkhof]

It doesn't change by the fact that the driver in question happens to win a race, or even worse, that he threatens to quit as a consequence. It's the clubs duty to treat all drivers as equal. Constructive criticism is always welcome, and in time we will review whether this rule should be modified in the future.

The rules dont need to be modified in this situation. It's perfect for the World Championship division where all the prizemoney is devided this year. But in the World Series there is nothing to win, unlike last year. So the only thing left is the fun racing, while drivers still need to pay the full license costs. That's why I really like the Greco rulebook 15.3 quote. Does this penalty make the competition better? Not really, it makes drivers leave and thus it makes FSR less interesting, reminding me of an earlier discussion about making the league more attractive.

again:

15.3 Penalties will be administered following the Penalty Guidelines, but these are intended as guidelines
only. In the end, the Race Director will be responsible of reviewing each incident independently.

It's a shame to see Stephane leaving but I can fully understand his reasons.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

I have nothing against working on modified post-race procedures IF it's in the team managers' / drivers' common interest. Before this incident, there was no complaints, even though we had disqualified a number of drivers during 2010-2011, so we assumed that the managers were happy with this procedure. I'd like to hear some ideas to renew this procedure in such a way that it remains clear for everyone and minimizes the workload for the directors.

And just to make it clear, rule/procedure changes will not be applied retrospectively. We cannot undisqualify drivers who were previously racing while subject to the rule/procedure in question.

 

[EnyNX]

I won't say much but I think the club is losing a big change to show it can make a difference between the SPIRIT of a rule and the LETTER of it. I see a lot of people here talking like judges or something but believe me, what you are doing is against your own interest and the same spirit of the rules you're applying.
You shouldn't change your mind 'cause Stephane treatened to leave but just and simply 'cause this litteral interpreation is leading to something which is far from justice. It could be a great occasion to say....."actually this rule might create some abnormal consequences" and show a good bit of sport spirit.
My english can't make it very clear but all I mean is that this case shouldn't lead to a softer solution 'cause it's Stephane but simply 'cause it showed that a simple litteral use of the rule is not that fair (not to say unfair).
And yes, there is a big and huge contrast between Jhon interpretation and Mikko's one, absolutely. If this rule must be applied as simple as in litteral read, then sepang re-race or not, a driver is requested to fill that number in the correct way, no matter why or what caused the mistake. Or you should come to the conclusion of asking why Stephane made that mistake and, of course I'm making a paradox, it could be a heavier and more serious reason than a re-race confusion.

I really don't intend to offend anyone, let me make that clear, I respect a lot volunteers and the job they do. They all have all my admiration. So consider it a constructive but firm criticism. Sometimes we can go backward on our steps when we think it's the fair path.

Eny

 

[Lee Morris]

Comment Removed By User

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Lee, you are very much wrong again, there is no bias. The same rule led to disqualification and loss of win of Mattias Stahre (from Precision yes!) at Great Britain last year. The only difference was that he didn't publicly complain back then.

If anything, this rule is 100% the same for everyone, so speaking of bias is highly disrespective towards the whole administration. Again, please refrain from commenting unless you have anything constructive to come with. I respect the words of Eny, he is one of the few that can see the big picture instead of getting stuck in this single case.

 

[Lee Morris]

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[Nick Rowland]

Firstly, hello

Secondly, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Are you honestly not allowing common sense to prevail here? Isn't there even a motion in your mind that thinks, you know what that's a bit harsh.

Rules are rules, but they are not LAWS. Rules are guidelines but they are not contractual Law. Therefore they can be "adjusted" - A Law for example has to be obided by and mere Rule can have permutation that make you think well hold on lets just evaluate this.

It's not difficult to say, ok you've put a 0, should be 5, just remember for next time.

Do that and you're singing.

Common sense is getting less and less in modern society, don't let it fall down here and have even more people leaving!

What is this constant strive to constraint, vindicate and ultimately drive away people? At the end of the day you want to be the best league out there... well do what others don't and lead by example. THINK.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Rules can be adjusted but that won't be decided in an instant based on the disadvantaged teams'/drivers' demands or based on "I'm leaving" threats. What bothers me is that we employed this same rule for almost 2 years and none of you bothered to comment on it before now. Even worse, Gabriel Montanes got a penalty in the same race as Rouault for sending a wrong replay file, but yet none of you here are defending him (just because he kept quiet). What this tells me is that the "strong" drivers/teams have a tendency to drive their wishes through and thus indirectly employ power, leading exactly to the bias problems that Lee was speaking about.

 

[Stephane Rouault]

Thanks guys for your support, you are all absolutely right. The only one who can't see it is John, listen to the people mate, its not that difficult to comprehend!

And just to clarify, I did not threaten, I was stating simple facts. If the penalty wasnt changed I would leave. It's not a threat, it's a consequence of action.

I cannot stay, because that would mean I agree with whats happening here. And things would continue as they are at the moment. I hope things will change...

files:
http://gpcos.formula-simracing.net/submitted_files.php?league=World Series&race=0

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

You destroyed a perfect race because Rouault did a little mistake, he won being the fastest driver and with a fair way. I dont want to imagine how he feels right now, this is ridiculous.
Im lucky to drive in WT with Dominguez as a director, I wouldn't want to be in WS xDDD

PD: De Juan for president!

 

[Lee Morris]

Comment Removed By User

 

[Lee Morris]

Comment Removed By User

 

[David Dominguez]

If anyone from Precision Motorsports created the same bs last year on the forum after Mattias was DQ, I am 100% positive nobody would care. Now cos a Twister driver does so, suddenly it is all fault by PM biased FSR management.

Hi,

Twister are the blue and white cars, the black cars are from Skizzato.

 

[David Dominguez]

Let me question this then: Why would all those teams vote for rules without reading them? They agreed to everything so it is ok now to proceed according to rules.

When had teams like Skizzato the chance to vote the rules ?

And let me question this then, if you don't want to change anything as soon as the season starts, why did you opened a thread after Australia to change mod physics ? Funny to see that you can't accept people doing what you already did in the past.

 

[David Dominguez]

Different painting, the same team.

No.

 

[Ajibola Lawal]

Im reading all this talk talk...Im not taking sides but I agree with the fact it is a quite unfair rule so many people want to let Stephane off since the rule states it is a guideline.But on the other hand its happened many times before and nobody has complained, just got on with it.Its a shame bias accusations which make no sense and arguements has to come of this.A rule is a rule which has been implemented many times before so there shouldn't be issues about it now.

 

[David Dominguez]

Changing mod was crucial, but for other people maybe changing some rules are crucial too, I can't see where is the problem.

About rules, let's say the truth : only 7 WC teams voted, 4 of them being the pack of Twister and Precision with 2 votes per team, and one of those 7 teams rejected the rules. That means that really only 4 people voted yes. 4 guys in a league with hundreds of drivers.

As I said earlier, those kind of decisions shouldn't be so limitated to a few guys.

 

[Jeffrey Rietveld]

I'm seriously getting tired after i've read all this argueing. Stephane made a mistake obviously, rules are rules. Sending files in the correct folder is also a part of the race. Did you see Mattias crying after he had put his files in the wrong folder after Silverstone last year, no. Also, for a good comparison. What would happen if a real F1 team wouldn't let the FIA check the car, the same don't you think ? Please just stop this pointless argueing and move on.

 

[David Dominguez]

It doesn't mean anything why nobody said that before Rouault, there is always a first time to discuss about a possible problem, even if it happened already in the past. I'm sure most part of people just checks his own possible penalties.

And only 1% of the league members can see what happens in the TOA forum, as it's something private.