Question about Tyre temp

[LazyBug]

After about 10laps my tyre temp looks like this --

Should i change each tyre pressure to make all about the same temp ??Also whats the best temp for a working tyre ??
Thanks for the concern.

 

[LazyBug]

I may well be wrong, but this "setup to get 5 degree differential in tire temps between inner-mid-outer", rather than improve overall handling matching your driving style, seems a bit of a rabbit hole/dead end to me.

To be honest i dont know anything about car setup but like i mention just now if you check out Forza / nK-pro / Race 07 even Iracing setup guide they all say the same thing. Of course they have the explanation for this but you better go read yourself. I dont think i wanna paste it here.

Pls note i never say correct tyre temp + pressure will make a shitty driver lap faster than an excellent driver, what i learn is that correct tyre temp + pressure will help any individual consistent driver lap even faster according to all these setup guide.

 

[LazyBug]

Last time I tried that dev app, my temps were speading fine in every corner. Not saying it was +-5deg, but it was enough. I mostly drive race cars. Will have to try it for different cars

I never get more than 2° IMO different in the car that i practicing right now (BMW Z4 E89 Base / Step 1) no matter how i set the tyre pressure & camber, may be this tyre physic actually not yet implement into the game so i am actually wasting my time

 

[Oemie]

To be honest i dont know anything about car setup but like i mention just now if you check out Forza / nK-pro / Race 07 even Iracing setup guide they all say the same thing. Of course they have the explanation for this but you better go read yourself. I dont think i wanna paste it here.

I always spent a lot of time in Forza or F1 201x on my own setups, and what they do, and have been playing with it in AC as well. Indeed, in their descriptions it will mention tire temperatures, but mostly in some phrase like this:

"increased negative camber will improve cornering grip, while also increasing tire wear and inner tire temperatures"

The way I read that is that the second is an effect (largely a negative one) that is a trade-off for increased cornering grip (after all, your tire contact patch with the track during cornering is larger). But during straights, the contact patch is smaller (as the outer side of the tire might not reach the track at all) and that smaller patch has to transfer all power to the road.

0 toe on straights is best, because the tire contact patch is maximum and is straight aligned with power you're applying. Increase or decrease toe, and this alignment is not straight (think of say a clock with handles at 11 or 1 o' clock), and you get friction not translated into forward speed but in heat (as it's sideways). (it's basically vector math)

That is, temperature is a side effect. It is not the desired behavior or the reason why you'd adjust a camber or toe setting - or if so, I've never heard of that before. It would always be about handling, or maximizing grip where you want it (corners or straights) and some balance thereof.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I never get more than 2° IMO

Try Z4 GT3. Maybe just those road tyres aren't meant to build up heat like the race tyres.

 

[LazyBug]

That is, temperature is a side effect. It is not the desired behavior or the reason why you'd adjust a camber or toe setting - or if so, I've never heard of that before. It would always be about handling, or maximizing grip where you want it (corners or straights) and some balance thereof

I guess too high or too low temp are bad or "side effect" like the way you call it but every tyre type has its own best working temp range for best working condition & thats not side effect.

At least thats what i learn after read all those setup guide.

 

[LazyBug]

Try Z4 GT3. Maybe just those road tyres aren't meant to build up heat like the race tyres.

But do you achieve the +-5° IMO temp in Z4 GT3 ?? If not then i dont think i wanna do it. The guy who reply me in AC forum also mention he cant get it work in X-Bow as well.
By the way I actually even happier if this +-5° IMO temp thing actually is not necessary in AC, simpler setup always better for me, less headache

 

[cerebus23]

I guess too high or too low temp are bad or "side effect" like the way you call it but every tyre type has its own best working temp range for best working condition & thats not side effect.

At least thats what i learn after read all those setup guide.

Basically too low a temp and you have no grip, too high a temp and you "cook" the tires making them break down faster.

You could setup a car for a race that gives you the best most grip ever but the downforce and setting might destroy a car running say on soft racing tires, when you have to find a balance,

And yes generally if your suspension tweaking you are tuning the car to a track or just tuning car to suit your driving style.

Tire temp is only key when talking tire wear, normal race driving will keep most tires in normal range, very hot track conditions or very cold or wet are extremes that can bring out the unusual situation where you might need to run tires hotter or cooler to save them or just to make them usable.

Mixed weather driving heat is a major concern rain tires do not like dry track and will heat up very quickly and disintegrate, why drivers will seek puddles on tracks when on rain tires in drying conditions to cool the tires and be able to run longer before the grip is gone.

Hotlapping grip should be the only concern, your not driving long enough to be testing the tires all that much, race conditions then yes you have to setup with a eye to track temp weather tire wear, different pit strategies might require limited or no pit stops and then you have to save your tires and gamble you can make them last and place at the end of the race, or hit your pit window.

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

So according to Mr. @Oemie I should be fine driving 1 hour stints in endurance cars with the same camber settings as for hotlaps? That is far from the truth dude.

 

[Oemie]

So according to Mr. @Oemie I should be fine driving 1 hour stints in endurance cars with the same camber settings as for hotlaps? That is far from the truth dude.

Well, no, of course, not. And I am not quite sure how you got that out of my comment. Would you have preferred the post was three times longer, with various caveats added? For a game where hotlapping is the only option right now?

You're welcome to provide any further additions, corrections, etc. you deem necessary. Thx

 

[Marian Zelenka]

But do you achieve the +-5° IMO temp in Z4 GT3 ?? If not then i dont think i wanna do it. The guy who reply me in AC forum also mention he cant get it work in X-Bow as well.
By the way I actually even happier if this +-5° IMO temp thing actually is not necessary in AC, simpler setup always better for me, less headache

I got 9deg I-O temp spread with no problem. Temps were crazy in every corner. Keep in mind that I don't know how to drive this car yet and I'm couple of seconds off the pace.

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

Well, no, of course, not. And I am not quite sure how you got that out of my comment. Would you have preferred the post was three times longer, with various caveats added? For a game where hotlapping is the only option right now?

You're welcome to provide any further additions, corrections, etc. you deem necessary. Thx

"That is, temperature is a side effect. It is not the desired behavior or the reason why you'd adjust a camber or toe setting"

Even with context, that does sound like you will NEVER set the cambers or toe to avoid tire heating, which is definiately not the case, unless you are hotlapping. I see you didn't mention endurance in your post, but you didn't mention that it does apply exclusively to hotlapping either.

I might be at fault for misunderstanding your post, but this is what came first into my mind after reading it.

 

[LazyBug]

I got 9deg I-O temp spread with no problem. Temps were crazy in every corner. Keep in mind that I don't know how to drive this car yet and I'm couple of seconds off the pace.

Alright. Thats exactly what i need to know, so this I-O temp thing is also in AC. You the man . But if you dont mind i have 2 more further questions for this.
1. Do you need to do lot of laps for that I-O +-9° thing to happen ?? Like 20 or 30 laps ?? Or 3-5 laps is more than enough ??
2. Do you alter the camber / tyre pressure / toe altogether to achieve this or camber alone is enough ??
Many thanks for your time

 

[LazyBug]

"That is, temperature is a side effect. It is not the desired behavior or the reason why you'd adjust a camber or toe setting"
I might be at fault for misunderstanding your post, but this is what came first into my mind after reading it.

Actually i quite shock when he say "temperature is a side effect" because even real life car setup guide also state that getting the right tyre temperature is extremely crucial for peak performance and suddenly it become something rubbish or useless thing ??

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

Btw, I can produce I-O +-9 deg easily on my first lap, and I'm not far off pace at all. It's pretty normal. I saw a DTM video onboard, showing tire temperatures over every turn in Hockenheim, it's pretty close to how my tires behave over turns, temperature wise.

EDIT: Tried to find the video, but this is the only stuff I found
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/5062-Realtime-tire-temps-on-a-DTM-Racecar

 

[LazyBug]

Btw, I can produce I-O +-9 deg easily on my first lap, and I'm not far off pace at all. It's pretty normal. I saw a DTM video onboard, showing tire temperatures over every turn in Hockenheim, it's pretty close to how my tires behave over turns, temperature wise

Alright another question is answered. Nice So i must be doing something very wrong because i dont get more than +-2° I-O even after 20 laps.
Ok since Marian Zelenka not yet response to me i wonder if you can answer my 2nd question also ?? Do you alter the camber / tyre pressure / toe altogether to achieve this or camber alone is enough ??
Thanks for your time

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

It depends on the track really. But usually you set all of the things to achieve the wanted behaviour. Camber alone won't help much, when the Toe settings are eating up the tires, and so do the low pressures.

 

[LazyBug]

It depends on the track really. But usually you set all of the things to achieve the wanted behaviour. Camber alone won't help much, when the Toe settings are eating up the tires, and so do the low pressures.

Yeah i understand what you mean and in fact i somehow expect an answer like this. Anyway its great that i get what i need now, thanks for especially you & Marian Zelenka time on this subject
By the way the video which you provide in that link not working

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Actually i quite shock when he say "temperature is a side effect" because even real life car setup guide also state that getting the right tyre temperature is extremely crucial for peak performance and suddenly it become something rubbish or useless thing ??

It's a combination and compromise as I see it. You would want more negative camber in front and vice versa rear for tight tracks with short straights, to be able to be fast in the corners, for example. The tire temps will be partly a side effect/result of this decision, but still you cant go crazy focusing on only camber letting the tire temps go crazy. You need to focus on what you need, start at the right point and then compromize, adjust tire pressure and so on to get close to the temps you need, depending on if youre hotlapping or doing long stints.
Stiffer suspension and higher tire pressure will sometimes be used also to raise the car higher up to gain top speed/lose downforce. It all acts together. Maybe you need to use a more flexible anti roll bar to gain temperature, to counter more important settings in a certain case.

It's all a compromise depending on track, car and purpose and you cant totally neglect either settings completely.

Edit: And to clarify a little. I mainly see front/rear camber balance as oversteer control. In netKar I actually had some success going by the numbers, but usually I would trust the feeling of how much oversteer feels suitable in the corners, from there adjust other things to get the overall temps where they need to be.

 

[LazyBug]

It's all a compromise depending on track, car and purpose and you cant totally neglect either settings completely

Yeah i know what you mean. Its always a game to give up one way & gain other way. I just saying tire temp is not there for nothing or some total useless side effect like how Oemie suggest. That doesnt sound right

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Yeah i know what you mean. Its always a game to give up one way & gain other way. I just saying tire temp is not there for nothing or some total useless side effect like how Oemie suggest. That doesnt sound right

In AC I would guess the tire temps are very relevant to get optimum grip. But still is is a simulation and it can never be reality, just more or less close to it.

For games like need for speed you would probably lose a bit going to hard after tire temps and possibly gain unrealistic corner speed by exaggerating things like camber, like an exploit.

For the BMW M3 E30 I almost had that feeling, of exploit by exaggerating camber values to the ends. I'm not stating that AC is wrong though, just my feeling of how much faster it makes me, perhaps due to my driving style/being able to cope with different things in the sim. For shorter and twistier tracks it's seconds faster for me, not tenths.