Online performance issues

tonygas · Mar 1, 2023

RasmusP said:
We need Screenshots from the csp render stats app in a session where the issue happens.

Otherwise it's just random guesswork, sorry.

Or even better:
Screenshots from all your settings, your nvidia 3D game settings (general and for AC) and a video of the csp render stats app (Handy camera is fine. Hold down your touch focus (long press on the display) to fixate the focus and then move the phone 3cm towards the monitor to get rid of the "striping" that happens when recording monitors.

OK I will do it.

Thanks again.

tonygas · Mar 5, 2023

Hi,

Captures of video settings in CM and nvidia panel

From nvidia I only have vsync activated as it appears in the screenshot

Offline and online video links or with active CSP performance

Offline

Online

It is connected by ethernet cable with a 300 mbps fiber

Equipment:

i7 7700
evga rtx 3080 ftw3 ultra
asus prime h270 plus
2 x 16gb ddr4 2400 crucial
ssd kingston a400 1tb sata
evga 850 cq 850w

Thanks for everything again, let's see if there is any luck with this data.

Greetings

RasmusP · Mar 5, 2023

tonygas said:
Hi,

Captures of video settings in CM and nvidia panel

From nvidia I only have vsync activated as it appears in the screenshot

Offline and online video links or with active CSP performance

Offline

Online

It is connected by ethernet cable with a 300 mbps fiber

Equipment:

i7 7700
evga rtx 3080 ftw3 ultra
asus prime h270 plus
2 x 16gb ddr4 2400 crucial
ssd kingston a400 1tb sata
evga 850 cq 850w

Thanks for everything again, let's see if there is any luck with this data.

Greetings

Graphics Settings are okay I'd say. Could you repeat your test but open TaskManager in the background with the performance section open and right after you had the fps drops, go into TaskManager and take a screenshot of the GPU load?

Looking at our recordings, I can see that when ONline, the fps drop down to 115-118 fps, which means, with vsync ON, that some of the frames will be displayed 2x on the monitor.
Which causes stuttering.
Explanation at the end of this post.

What we can read from the CSP stats:
Preparation takes 0.78 instead of 0.39 ms
Finale image takes 1.80 vs 1.07 ms
UI takes 1.25 vs 0.95 ms
Python apps update takes 0.50 vs 0.12 ms

The issue is that you can only influence UI and Python apps by checking which apps are causing this and maybe changing your HUD.

What's the real cause though:
Look at the Scene stats below the graph!
Draw calls online = 1511
Draw calls offline = 517

Triangles online = 1'755'683
Triangles offline = 897'962

You're using the same track and the same car right?

My guess would be that you're driving alone when offline and when going online, AC loads all cars that are available on the server, but they aren't shown.

Otherwise I sadly have no idea why the draw calls TRIPLE and the Tris DOUBLE!

About vsync stuttering:
It's difficult when thinking in FPS instead of frame times.
In frame times, it means that the monitor is expecting a frame every 8,33 ms (1000 ms / 120 frames per second = 8.33 ms per frame).
At 115 fps, this means 1000/115 = 8.7 ms.
So after 8.33 ms, there's no new frame and the monitor will display the old frame a second time.
Now you've got 16.66 ms of time until the next frame.
Since it only took 8.7 ms, the frame is definitely ready.

Easier view of this:
Monitor frame 1 = GPU frame 1
-> 8.33 ms later
Monitor frame 2 = GPU frame 1, since GPU frame 2 isn't ready yet (8.7 ms)
-> 8.33 ms later
Monitor frame 3 = GPU frame 2 (which is 7.96 ms old at this point. 16.66 - 8.7 ms)
-> 8.33 ms later
Monitor frame 4 = GPU frame 3

So every few frames, the GPU isn't ready yet and one frame has to be displayed 2x.

Without vsync, you'll see some constant stuttering since monitor and GPU are out of sync, but you won't have this "smooth->microstutter->smooth->microstutter" experience.

RasmusP · Mar 5, 2023

Next step for you:
Check how many slots are available on the server and which cars (hopefully only one car?).
Then do an AI practice session with the same car and the same amount of AI.

So if you have 24 server slots with Car A, do a AI practice session with 24 opponents, all same car as you.

If the server has 3 different cars, you'll have to match the amount of cars too.

Then we don't need a video again, just take screenshots with the CSP Render Stats App open.
Let's see if the draw calls and triangles are similar then and see what we can find in the CSP render stats.

One last word about your first post in this thread:
At 60 Hz, you were probably using 60 fps vsync?
This means 16.66 ms between frames so your CPU had 2x the time to get the next frame ready!

During your stutters in the video, you only dropped to about 114 fps as the lowest. Plenty of room if you'd be only using 60 Hz/fps.

tonygas · Mar 5, 2023

RasmusP said:
Next step for you:
Check how many slots are available on the server and which cars (hopefully only one car?).
Then do an AI practice session with the same car and the same amount of AI.

So if you have 24 server slots with Car A, do a AI practice session with 24 opponents, all same car as you.

If the server has 3 different cars, you'll have to match the amount of cars too.

Then we don't need a video again, just take screenshots with the CSP Render Stats App open.
Let's see if the draw calls and triangles are similar then and see what we can find in the CSP render stats.

One last word about your first post in this thread:
At 60 Hz, you were probably using 60 fps vsync?
This means 16.66 ms between frames so your CPU had 2x the time to get the next frame ready!

During your stutters in the video, you only dropped to about 114 fps as the lowest. Plenty of room if you'd be only using 60 Hz/fps.

Thank you very much again.

It is true, I have not taken into account the cars of the server. When you enter they load them all effectively.

I'm going to do the checks with the AI and attach screenshots.

As for the app's, it also happens to me without any active app

I have vsync active because it is much more fluid than if I do not have it. Without activating it, it goes like jumps.

The monitor is 144hz 2k but I have it set to CM at 120hz with vsync from the nvidia panel. This is how I do better and more fluently online. But it still stutters though less than at 144hz. At 60hz with vsync I tested it and there is no stuttering online. But of course, having a 144hz monitor and graphics to shoot at that frequency... it hurts to put it at 60hz haha

RasmusP · Mar 5, 2023

tonygas said:
Thank you very much again.

It is true, I have not taken into account the cars of the server. When you enter they load them all effectively.

I'm going to do the checks with the AI and attach screenshots.

I have vsync active because it is much more fluid than if I do not have it. Without activating it, it goes like jumps.

The monitor is 144hz 2k but I have it set to CM at 120hz with vsync from the nvidia panel. This is how I do better and more fluently online. But it still stutters though less than at 144hz. At 60hz with vsync I tested it and there is no stuttering online. But of course, having a 144hz monitor and graphics to shoot at that frequency... it hurts to put it at 60hz haha

Normally 144 Hz monitors also can be set to 85 and 100 Hz.
100 Hz might be just as fluid (I don't see any difference at more than 90 fps/Hz. I tested this with a 240 Hz gsync monitor).

Which brings me to my next point:
Can you tell us your exact monitor model? Maybe it can be used with gsync compatible mode, which would solve your issues completely

tonygas · Mar 5, 2023

RasmusP said:
Normally 144 Hz monitors also can be set to 85 and 100 Hz.
100 Hz might be just as fluid (I don't see any difference at more than 90 fps/Hz. I tested this with a 240 Hz gsync monitor).

Which brings me to my next point:
Can you tell us your exact monitor model? Maybe it can be used with gsync compatible mode, which would solve your issues completely

Hi,

Correct with 90 or 100 hz for it is also enough for simracing. But at 60hz I do notice it. I have gsync compatibility enabled. Attached capture.

Attached screenshots of CSP online and offline mode, also those of the task manager in both cases.

Vintagedriver01 · Mar 5, 2023

Is it an i7-7700 or i7-7700k(f)
You could do a test by disabling Hyper threading in your Bios, my I7-7700k was always without HT running AC. .
Further I had good results in using affinity/priority/shutdown software that did make cores free for AC.
https://www.bill2-software.com/processmanager/download-en.shtml
https://systemexplorer.net/
https://bitsum.com/ process lasso
http://www.koma-code.de/ CPU control
CPU-control is the easiest to use only its limited to 4 cores, so you have to disable HT.
Process Lasso, is the only software thats updated to the last Windows, all the others are a bit outdated, (but still usable) when I did use Process lasso, I noticed it was an recourse hog and a bit complex. Who knows the paid version is better on that point.
Bill2 you have to get the trick in how to use it, my first attempt was negative, but after reading how you can store the adjustments permanently, it’s easy.
SystemExplorer its still on my disc but I never used it.

tonygas · Mar 5, 2023

Vintagedriver01 said:
Is it an i7-7700 or i7-7700k(f)
You could do a test by disabling Hyper threading in your Bios, my I7-7700k was always without HT running AC. .
Further I had good results in using affinity/priority/shutdown software that did make cores free for AC.
https://www.bill2-software.com/processmanager/download-en.shtml
https://systemexplorer.net/
https://bitsum.com/ process lasso
http://www.koma-code.de/ CPU control
CPU-control is the easiest to use only its limited to 4 cores, so you have to disable HT.
Process Lasso, is the only software thats updated to the last Windows, all the others are a bit outdated, (but still usable) when I did use Process lasso, I noticed it was an recourse hog and a bit complex. Who knows the paid version is better on that point.
Bill2 you have to get the trick in how to use it, my first attempt was negative, but after reading how you can store the adjustments permanently, it’s easy.
SystemExplorer its still on my disc but I never used it.

It's a 7700 but I've tried to disable HT and it works much better. The micro cuts have disappeared and it runs smoothly like offline.

Thank you very very much.

RasmusP · Mar 5, 2023

tonygas said:
It's a 7700 but I've tried to disable HT and it works much better. The micro cuts have disappeared and it runs smoothly like offline.

Thank you very very much.

Normally that shouldn't be the case but nice that it worked!
I bet that with HT active, your Windows did some "core parking" and also throttling due to "cores idling".
I completely forgot about this, sorry!

You need to disable core parking and use the high performance power profile and then you should get higher fps with HT active, than with it deactivated.

tonygas · Mar 6, 2023

RasmusP said:
Normally that shouldn't be the case but nice that it worked!
I bet that with HT active, your Windows did some "core parking" and also throttling due to "cores idling".
I completely forgot about this, sorry!

You need to disable core parking and use the high performance power profile and then you should get higher fps with HT active, than with it deactivated.

That is, I have never had to disable HT for any game. But it has worked wonderfully, it runs very smoothly, even more than before offline. I still need to try it with a full grid online to see how it goes, but I was riding with several riders yesterday and it's going great.

Before disabling HT, "when it failed", I was looking at the consumption of logical processors in the performance tab of the task manager. They were all at the same usage level when I had assets open. They were all (the 8) between 60 and 70%. It seemed normal to me, so I ruled out that it was a cpu consumption problem.

Thank you very much for everything also for your attention.

tonygas · Mar 6, 2023

By the way, I am attaching a couple of screenshots of the bios/cpu in case you see that I have to disable or enable any parameter. The ideal would be to have the HT active as you say to take advantage of the 8 threads and have better performance. So you don't have to be activating or deactivating it. Although I am satisfied with what I have achieved haha.

RasmusP · Mar 7, 2023

Vintagedriver01 said:
Is it an i7-7700 or i7-7700k(f)
You could do a test by disabling Hyper threading in your Bios, my I7-7700k was always without HT running AC. .
Further I had good results in using affinity/priority/shutdown software that did make cores free for AC.
https://www.bill2-software.com/processmanager/download-en.shtml
https://systemexplorer.net/
https://bitsum.com/ process lasso
http://www.koma-code.de/ CPU control
CPU-control is the easiest to use only its limited to 4 cores, so you have to disable HT.
Process Lasso, is the only software thats updated to the last Windows, all the others are a bit outdated, (but still usable) when I did use Process lasso, I noticed it was an recourse hog and a bit complex. Who knows the paid version is better on that point.
Bill2 you have to get the trick in how to use it, my first attempt was negative, but after reading how you can store the adjustments permanently, it’s easy.
SystemExplorer its still on my disc but I never used it.

Finally managed to have a look:
Sadly the Taskmanager screenshots are "useless", because we need the graphics card load, not the CPU load

I'm on Win 11, but you should find the performance tab in the Win10 Taskmanager too:

Looking at the race start screenshot with AI, the FPS are only in the 70's, so it's not "online vs offline", it's just the CPU bottleneck with more than one car loaded.

Not much to be done apart from disabling CSP stuff like WeatherFX, Particles FX, Lighting FX. (don't disable CSP completely! The general extension is needed for the CPU optimizations!).
Or upgrading your CPU to something like a 13400F or Ryzen 7600.

About CPU settings:
Read about core parking here:

How to Enable or Disable CPU Core Parking in Windows 11/10

What is Core Parking Windows? Is it good or bad? Disable or Enable CPU Core parking in Windows 11/10 using Park Control, Manage Parked CPUs, Disable CPU Utility.

www.thewindowsclub.com

If you disable core parking and use the high performance power plan in the Windows energy settings, HT should improve your fps!
I definitely saw my fps increasing with my old i7 2600k (4 cores + HT) when enabling HT.
The 7700 has 4 cores + HT too.
AC increases the fps until you get 6 cores.

So with an i7 8700k (6 cores + HT), disabling HT might result in higher fps.
But with 4 cores + HT, having the extra CPU threads available normally increases fps.
As long as Windows doesn't use only 3 cores and their HT threads instead of all 4 cores while parking or throttling the 4th core.

Your BIOS settings look ok. Not the important settings anyway though like the boost clocks, MCE (Multicore Enhancement) and vcore.

tonygas · Mar 7, 2023

True, later I will change the motherboard, micro and memory to take advantage of the graphics. But hey, as I said before, with HT disabled I'm doing great with all the apps I need. But it is true, that now the four cores are between 75-90% of use when with the active HT the 8 threads are between 50 and 65%. Anyway, it's time to disable ht when training or running hehe

Vintagedriver01 · Mar 7, 2023

tonygas said:
True, later I will change the motherboard, micro and memory to take advantage of the graphics. But hey, as I said before, with HT disabled I'm doing great with all the apps I need. But it is true, that now the four cores are between 75-90% of use when with the active HT the 8 threads are between 50 and 65%. Anyway, it's time to disable ht when training or running hehe

I did once have an i7-7700k and most games (mostly flysims) I did use, the without HT did bring me a better performance. But its all easy to test by using the ingame AC benchmark. What works for me could be destructive for you.
Do try the affinity software. Set 3 core for AC exclusive and benchmark it with and without, my results were improved, much straighter frame times.

edit: Reading your topic start, think your 3080 is blocking your CPU. Do a benchmark using low graphical and extremely high graphical settings. It could be that with high graphical settings you reach better results.

RasmusP · Mar 7, 2023

Vintagedriver01 said:
But its all easy to test by using the ingame AC benchmark.

Sadly the inbuilt AC benchmark is very useless for CPU limits. I had 280 fps average in that benchmark but when going into a 20 AI quick race, the fps dropped to 80 fps!
The benchmark is like a rendered video. So the graphics card is used "normally", but the CPU is NOT.

Vintagedriver01 said:
edit: Reading your topic start, think your 3080 is blocking your CPU. Do a benchmark using low graphical and extremely high graphical settings. It could be that with high graphical settings it’s solved.

What do you mean with this?

Vintagedriver01 · Mar 8, 2023

RasmusP said:
Sadly the inbuilt AC benchmark is very useless for CPU limits. I had 280 fps average in that benchmark but when going into a 20 AI quick race, the fps dropped to 80 fps!
The benchmark is like a rendered video. So the graphics card is used "normally", but the CPU is NOT.

What do you mean with this?

1) I know but Its the only AC benchmark there is.

2) Simple he is going from a 1050ti to an 3080 that is a huge step in GPU upgrade. Think the upgrade to an 2k monitor can be neglected here. It could be he did not do a clean Nvidia driver update, he could do a quick reinstall just incase.
So despite his huge step in GPU upgrade the result is he is going back in performance like his 3080 is put into sleep.

edit: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-acknowledges-10-cpu-usage-driver-bug-after-exiting-games

tonygas · Apr 3, 2023

Thanks, sorry I've been away for a few weeks.

I comment that after the last update of the nvidia driver and doing a clean installation as always. It has greatly improved performance with HT enabled. The truth is that it is strange that it was because of the driver, every time I installed it it was by clean installation and also, I got to do a new installation of windows to try to solve it. Finally, computer stuff. Now happy without the processor so squeezed and the happy micro stoppages have disappeared.

RasmusP · Apr 3, 2023

tonygas said:
Thanks, sorry I've been away for a few weeks.

I comment that after the last update of the nvidia driver and doing a clean installation as always. It has greatly improved performance with HT enabled. The truth is that it is strange that it was because of the driver, every time I installed it it was by clean installation and also, I got to do a new installation of windows to try to solve it. Finally, computer stuff. Now happy without the processor so squeezed and the happy micro stoppages have disappeared.

Maybe your issue was only there while using the "buggy" nvidia versions with the CPU leak issue?