Omit Adaptive AI for individual track difficulty?

[Msportdan]

I know a lot of criticsm for RRe is against its adaptive AI and how it doesnt really work as designed. But on the whole the actual AI is quite impressive (minus a few odd incidents).

So i was thinking and S3s now listening to their customers, that maybe they could replace the adaptive AI system for a individual track by track AI level difficulty. This way you can then set your own difficulty per track to your skill. This rids the problem of some tracks being more difficult than others, and unbalanced AI.

A good example given by William further down.....

"In the real world racers adapt to different tracks relative to their God given talent but in the virtual world AI racers may exhibit programming related limitations or idiosyncrasies. Take two oval tracks, I assume the programmed AI would perform similarly on both tracks but then compare an oval with another more technically diverse track the AI may run into inherent problems related very tight and twisty tracks. My assumptions would support the need for track specific AI settings to even things out."

I want to get some numbers of users that would like to see this happen or who wouldnt, and see if the devs (with users backing this) would consider this.

so..........

 

[whaletail]

Has Adaptive AI (hereafter AAI) been updated recently, or is it implemented differently in DTM 2014?

In a recent DTM Experience Steam Community thread, a Sector 3 employee explicitly stated that due to the inherent driving differences across an entire race weekend, AAI is only functional during actual races (single race or championship). As it is also track specific, he also suggested that optimal use of AAI in championship mode essentially requires running two or three races prior to each race weekend.

With no mention of an AAI overhaul in the recent update's changelog, I'm really confused about AAI implementation in R3E and DTM 2014.

Henk

 

[Peter]

AI are tweaked in almost every build.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

i tried this adaptai now - it seems more a fun-race then serious racing, in 15 minutes, i believe i changed my position over 30times .... and i gained pos1 exactly in the last second of the race

 

[Emilio]

i tried this adaptai now - it seems more a fun-race then serious racing, in 15 minutes, i believe i changed my position over 30times .... and i gained pos1 exactly in the last second of the race

LOL!
Maybe the AAI was still in the process of learning your lines/timings... give it a go again to see if this has changed for the better... it should have...

 

[Heppsan]

I thought I try the adaptive AI again after reading some more in this thread. (gave that up after leading 20+ sec in DTM 2013)

Started a new championship in DTM 2014 without even making the races on the tracks to set the AI, just made the qualifying rounds!
And I'm really impressed!!

Wasn't sure after the first round at Hockenheim.
I managed to get on pole position, but they where constantly on my tail for the first couple of laps.
Then I got a stop & go penalty, and never really recovered, finished 18 th of 20.

But now at Oschersleben, I had a fantastic race!!
Messed up on qualify, but managed to climb up to 8 th due to a crash in the first turn.
Then there was a really tense battle for the rest of the race, had to tail my rivals for several laps before I got an opportunity to pass!
Finally finished 5 th.

Awesome job with this adaptive AI, will probably use this from now on!!


But again, as I mentioned in the bug report thread.
The AI is speeding on the way to the pit at Oschersleben!
They didn't ram me of this time, but I got pushed ahead, and they where going 95 instead of 60 all the way till the pit entry!.. .

 

[Heppsan]

I thought I try the adaptive AI again after reading some more in this thread. (gave that up after leading 20+ sec in DTM 2013)

Started a new championship in DTM 2014 without even making the races on the tracks to set the AI, just made the qualifying rounds!
And I'm really impressed!!

Wasn't sure after the first round at Hockenheim.
I managed to get on pole position, but they where constantly on my tail for the first couple of laps.
Then I got a stop & go penalty, and never really recovered, finished 18 th of 20.

But now at Oschersleben, I had a fantastic race!!
Messed up on qualify, but managed to climb up to 8 th due to a crash in the first turn.
Then there was a really tense battle for the rest of the race, had to tail my rivals for several laps before I got an opportunity to pass!
Finally finished 5 th.

Awesome job with this adaptive AI, will probably use this from now on!!


But again, as I mentioned in the bug report thread.
The AI is speeding on the way to the pit at Oschersleben!
They didn't ram me of this time, but I got pushed ahead, and they where going 95 instead of 60 all the way till the pit entry!.. .

Never mind what I said about the AI speeding, noticed that the speed limit apply first when you enter the pit lane.. .

However, more rejoicing about the adaptive AI.
Hungaroring workt splendid as well!!
Did an okay qualify session, then fought my way up to second after the pit stop.
I was then just hundredths of a second behind the leader for four laps, and whenever I was given a chance to pass he closed the gap and blocked me.
Then in the last corner before the finish straight I was finally able to pass him, and took the win!!

 

[Emilio]

@Heppsan I guess a replay of the race would be awesome to see then!!

 

[shardshunt]

id like too see ai diversity options or even an ability to customize each cars ai ability like lfs.
plus fix the breaking please.

 

[Heppsan]

@Heppsan I guess a replay of the race would be awesome to see then!!

I have tried now for a couple of hours, but I su*k at this capture stuff!.. .
And after capturing and converting for editing, the quality of the captured clips are horrendous!!
So I'm sorry, but I give up..
I might give it a go again when I have gotten myself a new hardware.

 

[Emilio]

I have tried now for a couple of hours, but I su*k at this capture stuff!.. .
And after capturing and converting for editing, the quality of the captured clips are horrendous!!
So I'm sorry, but I give up..
I might give it a go again when I have gotten myself a new hardware.

Hold it there man! I'll give you some hints for that... I'll PM you later on Steam (as soon as I get on my computer)

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

LOL!
Maybe the AAI was still in the process of learning your lines/timings... give it a go again to see if this has changed for the better... it should have...

gave it another try, but nope, they were maybe slightly faster, but was on top3 starting from 12th, after 2 laps... maybe car/track combo idk... dmdp20/red bull ring....

not worth it 4 me, atleast atm. from adapting i expect the first cars to be ~+1 sec. faster, the mid fast as me, and the last, -~1-3 sec. slower....so playing with setups should bring me the pace of the top drivers in the grid.

 

[Emilio]

gave it another try, but nope, they were maybe slightly faster, but was on top3 starting from 12th, after 2 laps... maybe car/track combo idk... dmdp20/red bull ring....

not worth it 4 me, atleast atm. from adapting i expect the first cars to be ~+1 sec. faster, the mid fast as me, and the last, -~1-3 sec. slower....so playing with setups should bring me the pace of the top drivers in the grid.

That's weird... I mean, no doubt you're reporting what's happening on your end. What I'm saying is that I always race with AAI and they are quite challenging for me.
I've deleted the Adaptive AI xml file and follow the suggestions made by Andi and Peter and running Practice/Quali definitely help when the Race session starts.
Maybe you're just improving your lines/drivestyle on that track and getting better so the AAI has to re-adapt to your new skill level.
Are you always consistent (~ 1sec +/-) with your laptimes?

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

i did a 4-5 laps practice-session in advance (in practice-mode/button, not singleplayer-practice) ... laptimes are consistenst, if no AI blocks me or bumps me out, however, I had a 1.26.xx in that practice, but the AI never reached that laptime in both races i did now with AAI , they (rather the fastest driver) had something with 1.27.xx iirc.

edit:just had a look@my stats on that car/track combo, it was a 1:23 in practice and 1:24: in singleplayer.

 

[Heppsan]

Hold it there man! I'll give you some hints for that... I'll PM you later on Steam (as soon as I get on my computer)

I finally made it work! (was a setting in Afterburner I've missed..)

So here are a DTM 2014 Replay highlights on Hungaroring with Adaptive AI.
The quality isn't the best, but hopefully it won't cause any fatal injuries to watch!

 

[Msportdan]

sorry to resurrect an old thread. But didn't want to start a new one..

but with adaptive does it only need one car to be run in on a track (shares data across all your cars)or does it need all cars to be run in? Also if a track is shared among experiences do u need to run them both in for the AI? or just the one and it copies over.

Your speed/time I mean?

 

[Msportdan]

anyone?

 

[shardshunt]

dunno don't use it

 

[Sean Kenney]

class might be different.

give it a whirl

 

[Martin Edmunds]

I was never a fan (of the adaptive AI) but i decided to give it a go with Adac 2014.

Went for a race on sachsenring, of the course the basic format is 2 race.
First race was pretty ridiculous as i was about 6 seconds faster after a single lap. Ended up the irst race with a whole minute ahead of the AI. The AI completed the race in In 12 minutes and 15 seconds if i remember right.
Second race , I get the ballast 30kg( i think) , Now i need to be more carefully well lo and behold the Ai is only 2 seconds behind me and got really close to me by the end, my lap time were not that much slower and they finished the race in 11 minutes and 15 seconds this time.

So it seems to work well.
( please note i had previously played a single race on Sachsenring the day before but did not complete the second race )

 

[whaletail]

AI are tweaked in almost every build.

Tweaking the AI, and fundamentally changing the AAI's basic infrastructure, are very different things.

If AAI functionality no longer requires three non-championship single player races at each track (prior to racing that track in a championship), I'd really appreciate being informed.

Similarly, if AAI now adapts to practice and/or qualifying, as earlier posts suggest, Sector3 should also inform the community.

Henk