Oh dear another one.

[Calvyn White]

Removed no longer relevant.

 

[natedogg1867]

Considering this car has been out for a few weeks now, and yours is the first comment denouncing the car... I'd say the problem is with the driver, not the car...

And from memory, unless you were playing in Amateur, you should be able to adjust everything except spring rate. That's more than enough to affect the behavior of the car.

The rest of your post is a bit incoherent, so what is your actual complaint with how the car drives? Throttle control is key, and perhaps you need some more TC than the default amount.

 

[Yetch]

I don't find it particularly harder to drive than any of the others, stiff bump/rebound and a dash of negative toe at the rear to help tame the rear end, bit weird I know but seems to work. Would be nice to have some spring adjustment (bit of a bouncer) but rules are rules, sounds great.
However don't get the Jonny no mates bit, gonna end up with a handful of lonely Merc DTM's. Guessing they've put the work in so may as well recoup some dollar, not sure how popular they will be and the less they sell the less likely they will get any friends to play with. Perhaps some future collaborations with Alpha Romeo, Ford, GM etc may arise . Seems strange to fragment the field further when I thought their plan was to consolidate things. Back to the Merc, smoother the track the better it seems to be, at Zhuhai I struggled to set a time, yet at Paul Riccard I could really push to the limits. So horses for courses, just not sure how many riders there will be unless we see a Sierra, Alpha etc

 

[natedogg1867]

Guessing they've put the work in so may as well recoup some dollar, not sure how popular they will be and the less they sell the less likely they will get any friends to play with.

Actually no, the original plan was more likely to not release these competition cars. These were solely made at Mercedes behest for use in that Mercedes E-sport competition. After community requests in the past few weeks, the decision was made and go-ahead was given to release these in the store.

So, these cars wouldnt even exist had Mercedes not wanted them made and supplied data for them.

 

[Yetch]

Actually no, the original plan was more likely to not release these competition cars. These were solely made at Mercedes behest for use in that Mercedes E-sport competition. After community requests in the past few weeks, the decision was made and go-ahead was given to release these in the store.

So, these cars wouldnt even exist had Mercedes not wanted them made and supplied data for them.

If Mercedes commissioned them then why do we have to pay for them?
Surely Mercedes paid for the cars? If not then why? I have to pay.
If Mercedes did pay then why do S3 need double bubble?
Seemed like the perfect opportunity to offer these cars with major discounts, seeing as they will get no opposition and are good for hot lapping and maybe the occasional cup race but little else.
My RR garage is full of cars that either need updating urgently or just gather dust because there's never a server. Would very much like to see some of the older cars get RR's new physics guru to inject some life into a few of the old dogs!
Talking of old dogs the Caymen, for starters needs it's long overdue liveries released and perhaps a GT4 version to play with the myth that is the KTM GT4 and then maybe an Aston, Merc etc etc.
Yes the WTCR cars will be here September or Soon™
Yes there are 3 tracks Imminent, Soon™
Ranking System Soon™
Soon™
™
At first RR was my go to race Sim, it's slowly become a hot lap Sim, rarely check the servers anymore, same old tracks, same old cars, same old first turn chaos, same old, same old!
Do hope the TCR's are a blast and the tracks are interesting, RR could do with a poke with a long stick, some Pizzazz is required the opposition are circling the camp, time to get some big guns out!

Jeez I'm bored, rambling again.

 

[natedogg1867]

If Mercedes commissioned them then why do we have to pay for them?
Surely Mercedes paid for the cars? If not then why? I have to pay.
If Mercedes did pay then why do S3 need double bubble?

Every license agreement has its own unique terms. It could be as simple as Mercedes commissioning them, and having a clause that says they cannot be released later as free content. You might be surprised how many license agreements are like that

Besides that, would you rather these cars (2003/05 Merc when that time comes), not be available at all in the store? Because that seems to be the other option here.

Jeez I'm bored, rambling again.

Yeah, you might be looking into this one a bit too deeply

 

[UMC 22]

I never understand the complaints of having to pay for things. Nothing in life is free. Fact. If people don't like paying for something or think it's not worth it, then they need to vote with their wallets.

People not voting with their wallets and buying things they then complain about having to pay for is exactly why we're at where we're at now... living in an age where games regularly cost £40+ and still contain ridiculous micro-transactions for things that either add no value or should have been in the game to begin with. It wouldn't happen if people weren't paying so that means one of two things... either the vast majority of people are happy with these systems, or we're all a bunch of complete idiots with no willpower.

Anyway, I'm off to buy this car and see if it's as fun as some are saying.

 

[Yetch]

I never understand the complaints of having to pay for things. Nothing in life is free. Fact. If people don't like paying for something or think it's not worth it, then they need to vote with their wallets.

People not voting with their wallets and buying things they then complain about having to pay for is exactly why we're at where we're at now... living in an age where games regularly cost £40+ and still contain ridiculous micro-transactions for things that either add no value or should have been in the game to begin with. It wouldn't happen if people weren't paying so that means one of two things... either the vast majority of people are happy with these systems, or we're all a bunch of complete idiots with no willpower.

Anyway, I'm off to buy this car and see if it's as fun as some are saying.

Ahem, no one mentioned free at any point, being discounted was the enquiry for the stated reasons.
I have no problem at all with S3/RR sales policy, (yes there are a few of us) other than the lack of incentive for the many who have supported the Sim from day one, who don't benefit from any sale, who've paid full price for everything, can't see there being anything wrong with a loyalty scheme imo, was taken up by Georg at one point and ideas were had, that was 18 months ago though, so guessing any plans were dropped.

Just getting harder and harder to warrant dropping yet more Sterling on a Sim, when all around are moving on and we seem to have to tread water for a year or so, when RR may or may not catch up. Been a load of promises from S3, yet RR prefer them to do other things, as a priority.
2018 has had a lean first six months, will the year end in a bang, almost definitely, will it be enough to hold off the opposition, only time will tell (and quality of said opposition) but personally I'm torn, my only option maybe to move on for a couple years then receive a 50% discount on my return, just seems a bit of a strange way to do business.
I've grown up in and worked most of my life in the Pub/Hotel/Wholesale trade and lesson one was look after your regulars. Dying breed it seems!

 

[Calvyn White]

Plain and simple greed.
I don't see the point I've just turning out cars and tracks when there's others to be fixed. But then again there's no profit it's already been sold.
I do get the sense in this day and age greed is becoming the norm. There is no money and support and that's why I support when there is a problem for anything you may have purchased.
There was a time people had pride in their jobs and what they produced as quality merchandise no matter what it maybe.
If you expect future sales you should supply quality merchandise. If you expect future sales you should not blatantly showing greed.

So go ahead forum troller do your thing. Read my post and think how you can disagree with it even before you read it.

 

[natedogg1867]

I do get the sense in this day and age greed is becoming the norm.

I'll bite.

Im curious. How do you expect developers to provide you with constant updates and simply maintaining the game which has its own costs... while the game is free? If there isnt anything to buy, there would be no money available for development.

Perhaps you prefer other business models where once the game is released, nothing is improved because the developers moved onto something else.

Im sure you can appreciate that when you work on a long term project, money has to be coming in for it to make economic sense for you to continue that work.

So go ahead forum troller do your thing. Read my post and see how you can disagree with it even before you read it.

That's a stupid thing for you to say.

You are obviously just looking to start trouble with a statement like that. There are legitimate points to discuss which you brought up, but this just trivialized your entire comment because you cant control your emotions. Grow up.

 

[Calvyn White]

I'll bite.

Im curious. How do you expect developers to provide you with constant updates and simply maintaining the game which has its own costs... while the game is free? If there isnt anything to buy, there would be no money available for development.

Perhaps you prefer other business models where once the game is released, nothing is improved because the developers moved onto something else.

Im sure you can appreciate that when you work on a long term project, money has to be coming in for it to make economic sense for you to continue that work.



That's a stupid thing for you to say.

You are obviously just looking to start trouble with a statement like that. There are legitimate points to discuss which you brought up, but this just trivialized your entire comment because you cant control your emotions. Grow up.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I could be mistaken but aren't the majority of the funds for this project coming from Raceroom AG and KW?

The sector3 devs are a great bunch of guys but I feel there being handcuffed by the guys up above to produce deadline content for contracts they have aquired...esports, mercedes, dtm, wtcc, etc.

Which in hand has turned into endless content while having minimal time to work on the engine and add the much needed features that this game is missing.
Plus factor in the small size of the team doesn't help.
I was a huge fan of simbin back in the day with the GTR, and race07 .series and was extremely pumped for Raceroom but after 6yrs of developement not so much anymore, so much has changed with the team...bankrupt, new name, company moved devs coming and going etc. That i've decided to shelve the title until the switch to the new engine which will hopefully fix the current issues and shortcoming of this engine.

 

[UMC 22]

The same old story of publishers getting in the way of developers I suppose. Happens so often these days, turning many potentially amazing games into mediocre or just plain bad games through lack of features, content or bugs. It's a real shame in many cases. It's like giving Da Vinci a deadline for the Mona Lisa, telling him not to bother too much with getting the face right as long as the basic silhouette is ok.

R3E does lack features that it really should have by now, though I can't say that I personally have any real problem with it. It's still my go-to sim for online racing and car/track variety, though admittedly I go elsewhere for racing offline. (Though I rarely do that, to be honest. Online is where it's at.)

 

[Case_]

Then again, there needs to be some sort of deadline and guidance, otherwise projects and software projects in particular tend to suffer from feature creep and endless delays as developers often lose focus of the overall picture and spend a lot of time on small details instead.

 

[UMC 22]

Then again, there needs to be some sort of deadline and guidance, otherwise projects and software projects in particular tend to suffer from feature creep and endless delays as developers often lose focus of the overall picture and spend a lot of time on small details instead.

That's true, but that's where a plan comes in. You sit down before you start and decide what you want your game to have, and that's what you stick to. Nothing more, nothing less, until it's done. If you come up with any brainwaves during development, make a note and release it as a patch or DLC.

As I say, I'm happy with R3E and am in no particular rush for the features it currently lacks. That said, how many more people would be playing if they'd sorted the core simulation out first and focused on content only after it was finished?

 

[Emerson Meyer]

That said, how many more people would be playing if they'd sorted the core simulation out first and focused on content only after it was finished?

Hardly less than the current number...

 

[natedogg1867]

I could be mistaken but aren't the majority of the funds for this project coming from Raceroom AG and KW?

The sector3 devs are a great bunch of guys but I feel there being handcuffed by the guys up above to produce deadline content for contracts they have aquired...esports, mercedes, dtm, wtcc, etc.

The same old story of publishers getting in the way of developers I suppose. Happens so often these days, turning many potentially amazing games into mediocre or just plain bad games through lack of features, content or bugs. It's a real shame in many cases.

I feel it's pretty easy to be going around in circles here.

Let's imagine a hypothetical for a moment that RR was solely funded by the man, KW himself. And that RR did not have a content store and did not bring in a single bit of money. Does anyone believe the owner of a business would allow said business to operate at a big loss 100% of the time?

Selling content in RR along with support from KW, is the reason RR as we know it is still in development and has received support since SimBin went bust in 2014.

Without RaceRoom AG as the publisher whom KW owns, RR would cease to exist and nothing would be added to it and nothing would fixed. There's a symbiosis here, and since KW is paying the bills at the end of the day, certain things will have priority. Which of course isnt going to make everyone happy when you want (this content) and I want (this feature).

There's not really anything more that needs to be said on that topic since it is pretty simple, however frustrating that may be.

Hardly less than the current number...

That's basically been rFactor 2's business model since they released in ~2012, and they have been dead in the water for years.

 

[Emerson Meyer]

Well... if you consider a number of 400 players by day (average) for rFactor2 as one for a dead sim...what about RR, with 250 players? More than dead? It's that even possible?

I was one of the very first to try RR... have bought a lot of content in the hope that the basic features would be bring to the sim.

This will not happen, plain and simple. Dozens of cars just forgotten...and new content being released over and over.

As I said, the numbers don't lie... and the picture is even worst if you consider that between those 250 players, many are using just the free content...

 

[UMC 22]

Hardly less than the current number...

Based on what? Your crystal ball that details alternate realities when different directions were taken?

There's not really anything more that needs to be said on that topic since it is pretty simple, however frustrating that may be.

Well, I think there is actually. While you are entirely correct in the points you are making about funding, the fact is that this business model has not always existed and nor is it particularly common. Plenty of other games out there are still supported without having a content store to fund them. Some are supported with free content patches funded by the games actual sales, others by significant DLC that are worth the relatively low cost. There are other ways of doing things and R3E could have used them.

But don't get me wrong here. I'm not one of the people that is particularly bothered by the way R3E does things. If you take the time to do things "right" you can pick up R3E and all it's content for the same price (and less in some cases) as the other major sims out there. And I really don't think the price of a coffee and a muffin every couple of months is a lot to ask for a new track or car. But that's just me.

 

[Gevatter]

If you expect future sales you should supply quality merchandise. If you expect future sales you should not blatantly showing greed.

Adding to that, if you as a company expect future sales bring your old content that people already paid for up to the current standard, as the DTM 1992 cars still feel like they drive on rails, especially compared to the latest cars. Why would I spend money on content and expect it to be kept updated if you have shown to be negligent in this regard in the past?