F1 2011 Official AI Thread

[Carl Williamson]

Playing on Legend @ monza and the AI just won't overtake you no matter what, they will get a good run on you going into certainturns but will instead decide to just stay behind you for the entire race. It's bizarre. Had similar issues on other tracks, they just won't overtake you unless you make some major error. It kinda ruins the offline portion of this game.

 

[Jace11]

The binxml converter might make it easier...

http://www.racedepartment.com/f1-2010-mods/39080-new-file-added-fergo-binxml-gui-frontend-binxml.html

 

[jowak]

But if you change only the breaking and cornering variations the tool only update this variables to the "ai_vehicle_track.xml". Im using this tool since the first day with the game. Before every race i try some laps with the renault to see my best laptimes ,after that i just edit the variables to match the AI renault driver laptime against my laptimes.
I aways make them 0.800, 0.700 per second faster than me cuz every lap we tend to become faster. And of course to correct the cornes when AI break to early like that first one in Sepang. Anyway everyone have their own style to edit something.
Hope Ryder25 make new a version for the 2011 game, it gone very good. And just waiting for someone to deal with the sh**** *.CTF files.

This is the folder on my pc, hope it works.
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ce2ec7c/n/AI_TOOLKIT_without_installer.zip

just go to "F12010-Track Settings(Expert mode)" and in the "ADVANCED RACE TRACK SETTINGS" choose the track and IMPORT the "ai_vehicle_track.xml" inside the track, after that export. Make a backup of the all "ai_vehicle-track.xml" before.

 

[TGApples]

I personally think the obvious "braking far far too early" corners need fixing. Might make the AI a bit challenging on those circuits with big stops, but pretty much any corner when you brake down to 1st the AI completely fails at, usually braking at least 10m too early and really really to overtake from a long way back. After than some balancing can be done...

 

[TGApples]

Ok... I've gone through most tracks and changed a few things here and there.

Later braking in the following turns:

Australia: 1.
Malaysia: 4, 9 and 15.
China: 6, 11 and 14.
Spain: 1, 5 and 13.
Monaco: 5, 10 and 15. 5% faster max speed around all corners EXCEPT Lowes, Rascasse and Anthony Noghes. *Actually tweaked a bit more corner-by-corner*
Turkey: 9 and 12.
Canada: 10.
Europe: 2, 8, 12, 17 and 25.
Great Britain: None.
Germany: 14.
Hungary: 1, 2, 4 and 6. Increased speed of 4.
Belgium: 1, 5 and 18. Incrased speed of 1.
Italy: 1 and 4
Singapore: 8, 13 and 14. 5% faster max speed around all corners.
Japan: 9, 11 and 16. Increased speed through 9 and 15.
Korea: 1, 3 and 4.
India: 1, 3 and 4.
Abu Dhabi (based upon Jace's edit): 1, 7, 8, 11 and 17. Increased cornering speed through 2 and 7.
Brazil: 1 and 4. Increased cornering speed through 1.

Should note that some of these changes are very small relatively, whereas some are quite big. Monaco turn 10 is big, Hungary turn 6 is small, for example.

Anyway, thoughts on all of these? Any obvious other corners you think the AI brakes too early at?

As far as correcting the bad AI tracks, I think the speed boost on Monaco and Singapore should help with this. Should also create a few more AI crashes hopefully!

 

[Alberto Casado]

If something is calculated using constant values it itself must surely be constant, right? Can't see any way out of that.


Lets say the physics engine runs at 30 ticks/second, and a corner takes 3 seconds to naviage. 90 ticks. For the first 20 ticks I brake, then I turn for the next 70. The braking takes me from V0 to V20. When we turn in our grip is dependant on V20. The grip at tick x is going to dependant on Vx throughout the turn.

(Although this does not automatically prove me right, I will start by saying that I'm a physicist and I have programmed a few simulations, of other type).

You overcomplicate by far the problem, it is not rocket science (TBH, neither rocket science is "rocket science") to find a very good (maybe not the ultimate optimal, but physics are about getting a "good enough" solution) race line. I can give you the first order approximation for any isolated turn: the maximum radius trajectory. Of course you can start thinking about early and late apex hitting, I don't think it is worth it and the AI in this game is already cruder than this approach.

Now you have a radius of curvature, which together with the friction coefficient and the mass of the car dictates the maximum speed that you can take it. The friction coefficient is a hellish mixture of parameters which gets immensely simplified when you take in account that those parameters are heavily quantized in the program (there are not tenths of degrees of precision in wing angle, we have just 11, I bet you have 2 grip levels per tyre -cold/hot- modified by the state of the track -what, 10 levels of humidity?, probably even less, and most part of them can be taken as a constant during the whole turn). Once you calculate the maximum speed you know how much space you need to brake before turning. Done. If the car is overtaking, it needs to take a different line, just get the maximum curvature restricted to pass a point in the inside of the turn. And when I say a point, I don't mean a mathematical infinitesimal precision point, the collisions are determined by the bounding boxes of the cars, so any precision thinner than the car wingspan is just not worth it. And so on.

All the physics, by the way, are already implemented (better or worse) for your car, so you don't have to replicate the algorithm and actually reusing it is fairer (so you and the AI will be aided/bugged equally from the same implementation).

I will point, however, that the solution of crudely pre-script the non visible cars is perfectly fine for me. The method is not what is wrong, what fails is that nobody cared in CM to test-run each circuit and fine tune the lap times, the turn speeds, etc. In short, they had a year to do what a dozen or so of modders, with just partial knowledge or the implementation and having to figure out the effect of each parameter, will eventually manage to do in a month or so. And that is... a bit shameful.

 

[MaicoV]

AI Aggression

I'm trying to modify AI Aggression but just can't seem to get it to work.
Dont know exactly which files to edit and hoe to open and edit them..
I believe they are XML file's but i'm not sure! Anyone who can help me!?
Thanks in advance!

 

[TGApples]

So, just had a quick test on a 20% race on Monaco. One with updated breaking points and corner speeds, one without. Legend AI, 130% damage mod, full sim.

Pre-change:

Post-change:


I sat in the corner all race in both. Massa DNFed in updated version, no DNFs in original, but I don't think that's really a problem (actually a good thing probably!). No SCs in either. Looks promising though - about 1.5s a lap just by spending 15 mins tweaking some numbers. Worried that 1.5s might be a bit too much faster! I'll run it on pro and see what it does.

EDIT: Actually... 40s over 16 laps is 2.5s per lap. Just the fastest laps are 1.5s faster. My bad. I think 2.5s mean improvement is perhaps a bit extreme. Problem is... it can be that on one example the leaders didn't get stuck behind so many backmarkers, so posted faster times. Hmmm. Hard to be conclusive.

 

[Nick Kasapis]

You can edit ai aggression from database.bin file with ryder database editor but don't expect much. I run all AI at 1.0 aggression which mean 100% and speed_in and speed_out values for all ai at 1.0 too. The difference it makes is very minor, nearly unnoticeable, your mind will say the are a bit better but in reality nothing happens. Only codies can make it really more aggressive but i don't think they will do it in F12011. We will have to wait until F1 2012 comes out, or rFactor2 and an F1 mod.

 

[Renneboog]

You can edit ai aggression from database.bin file with ryder database editor but don't expect much. I run all AI at 1.0 aggression which mean 100% and speed_in and speed_out values for all ai at 1.0 too. The difference it makes is very minor, nearly unnoticeable, your mind will say the are a bit better but in reality nothing happens. Only codies can make it really more aggressive but i don't think they will do it in F12011. We will have to wait until F1 2012 comes out, or rFactor2 and an F1 mod.

Try to edit AI in loose_parts_settings.xml in the F1 2011 main directory (only the items with ai in it).

 

[TGApples]

Try to edit AI in loose_parts_settings.xml in the F1 2011 main directory (only the items with ai in it).

That does damage, nothing to do with aggression.

 

[Renneboog]

That does damage, nothing to do with aggression.

Stupid me.

 

[Nick Kasapis]

Aggression is very tough to change in this game, i mean really change it, ai hit the brakes hard and overtake you from the inside, or brake late to not let you overtake them. They brake to early.

 

[sethisuwan]

Just Figured Out a Method to Test AI, AI Mods.

I was running a (graphics) benchmark test and then I realized, that this was also a good way to test how your AI is actually driving and test various different AI mods, as you are looking at the race through the cockpit of your AI driver.

So I changed some settings in surface_materials.xml to reduce overall grip, and ran the benchmark test again and immediately I could see the AI slipping around and struggling to make the apex. Then I tried some AI mods from here, and I did notice some differences, for example the other AI cars trying to overtake each other and even managed some moves (in Monaco of all places).

So, this isn't any solution for AI, but just a good tool to test how the AI actually drives the car.

Cheers.

 

[TGApples]

Yeah - that's how I'm testing my AI mods (tweaking breaking points and corner speeds). You can set up the benchmark file to give you any track, and any combination of cars. Only problem is that you only seem to be able to do it for one lap. It's a lot quicker as well, as you make it run through the command line which boots straight into benchmark mode.

 

[daytona64]

TG, Can you upload the track file amendments you have made.

 

[Andrea Sammartino]

yes, can you upload this? thanks

 

[Jace11]

Anyone settled on any values for the AI driver configuration yet?

If you have fixed some faster corners it would be good to test them, have you scaled this for inter and wet conditions also?

AI speeds were something people tuned to their driving performance in 2010, faster players want faster AI, AI tweaks become very subjective very quickly. That is how the AI tool started. But if you have identified specific corners and zones that do have problems that is good.

With the AI, we should pool everything together. Not just files, but ideas and knowledge of AI parameters. That way, we will fix it quicker, withou duplicating our efforts.

So, I have a question.. Are all corners and braking zone lines the same as in 2010. i.e are the first two lines turns 1 and 2 on the first lap etc.

 

[Jace11]

But if you change only the breaking and cornering variations the tool only update this variables to the "ai_vehicle_track.xml". Im using this tool since the first day with the game. Before every race i try some laps with the renault to see my best laptimes ,after that i just edit the variables to match the AI renault driver laptime against my laptimes.
I aways make them 0.800, 0.700 per second faster than me cuz every lap we tend to become faster. And of course to correct the cornes when AI break to early like that first one in Sepang. Anyway everyone have their own style to edit something.
Hope Ryder25 make new a version for the 2011 game, it gone very good. And just waiting for someone to deal with the sh**** *.CTF files.

This is the folder on my pc, hope it works.
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ce2ec7c/n/AI_TOOLKIT_without_installer.zip

just go to "F12010-Track Settings(Expert mode)" and in the "ADVANCED RACE TRACK SETTINGS" choose the track and IMPORT the "ai_vehicle_track.xml" inside the track, after that export. Make a backup of the all "ai_vehicle-track.xml" before.

Thanks for that btw...

 

[TGApples]

If you have fixed some faster corners it would be good to test them, have you scaled this for inter and wet conditions also?

I've not run them all through with inters and wets. I guess it's a case for playtest playtest playtest.

AI speeds were something people tuned to their driving performance in 2010, faster players want faster AI, AI tweaks become very subjective very quickly. That is how the AI tool started. But if you have identified specific corners and zones that do have problems that is good.

I agree that this is one way of doing it. I'd also argue, however, that there is a place for a generic "this will make your AI more balanced" mod. I did a bit of poking around and it would appear that pushing the braking zones doens't really change AI laptimes all that much, though corner speed does.

With the AI, we should pool everything together. Not just files, but ideas and knowledge of AI parameters. That way, we will fix it quicker, withou duplicating our efforts.

So, I have a question.. Are all corners and braking zone lines the same as in 2010. i.e are the first two lines turns 1 and 2 on the first lap etc.

I was planning on uploading it earlier, but I got held up. Will sort it out now. I've never actually used a 2010 .xml, but it appears that they are off the same format. The tool works for both.

Uploading what I've done now in the mods section. I slightly toned down the AI changes in Monaco and it seems less crazy now.

 

[jowak]

I think the better idea is someone edit the race laptimes for the tracks and make the AI faster 4 seconds, fixing the curves when AI brake early too. So if someone is just 1 or 2 seconds faster than original AI version just race in professional, not legend. Faster than 5 seconds i think is unnecessary, only to the people who play with no fuel or tyres sim on.

Or someone can do a thread with this http://www.filefactory.com/file/ce2169c/n/Catalunya_AI_race_pace.rar (didn´t change the braking points i think, only the race pace) for all the tracks.