Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[RCHeliguy]

I probably should at least mention the Quest Pro, since it has gotten a few good reviews and has actually been released.

My deal breakers are comfort, 2 hour battery life, poor built in speakers, and possible issues with inside out tracking and motion.

A couple quotes about comfort.

"But since that first demo, using the Quest Pro has become uniquely tortuous. Its ring puts practically all its substantial weight on my upper forehead, sometimes leaving a numb and tingling strip along my hairline. It feels a little better if I keep the fit loose, but that makes the headset less stable during games and other high-intensity activities. "

" the Quest Pro’s forehead band. It gave me a wretched tension headache within minutes of my first use and always left a red spot on my skin. The pain intensity varied throughout wear, but I imagine I’ll need to add extra padding to that area to make it truly comfortable."

Fitment.

"The key issue with Quest Pro’s headstrap design is that the front forehead pad only sits best on your forehead at one specific spot (where the curve of your forehead most closely matches the curve of the pad). But the curvature of people’s foreheads can vary quite significantly. So that perfect spot for the pad to rest on your forehead might not be the perfect spot if you want your eyes to align with the lenses in the ideal place."

Headphones

" I found I needed them cranked to maximum volume in most games in order to have sufficient volume. "

Tracking

I had a personal account of tracking not working with a sim rig motion system, but I can't find the comment.

My personal opinion on the Quest Pro is that it is immature for its use case and going in the wrong direction. Magic Leap has the concept right even if their product was lackluster. The idea of having your work displays showing superimposed over reality is a great idea and eventually it will work. Magic Leap lets you see reality natively and then adds to that. The idea of only seeing reality through cameras and on displays has some use cases, but I think people will be much more comfortable if they can see reality directly with their eyes and then just have additional things added. Time will tell.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Got my tracking number for the Aero. It requires a signature as expected. Fortunately I work from home, but I'll put a sign on the door to try to make sure I don't get a message saying that no one was home. Because that's never happened...

It appears that they drop ship product directly from manufacturing in Shenzhen, China. Given their HQ is in Helsinki, Finland that likely saves time and additional shipping charges. Varjo does have another technologies HQ in Washington DC, but likely that has more to do with their involvement in military flight simulators.

This should be a fun weekend
But I also understand that it will take time to get everything configured properly. Luckily there is documentation on the Varjo discord server and there are people very actively working to get the most out of these headsets.

I'll need the latest Varjo base software, and the latest OpenXR updates, and a specific fix for Dirt Rally 2.0. And while SteamVR can be set to default to operate in OpenXR mode, I understand getting the latest updates will give me more features.

FWIW they do have initial foveated rendering with eye tracking starting to work at the OpenXR level which would mean for most applications.

I was just informed that Adorama has new Varjo Aero's for sale in stock and with free one day delivery. LOL! Of course!

I was just pointed to this solution in case I wanted a solid microphone solution for the Sure ear buds. Of course I need to find out if I can live with earbuds long term before I bother. Also this is a new product and isn't in stock anywhere.

https://antlionaudio.com/products/kimura-microphone?variant=42598117474541&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQiA54KfBhCKARIsAJzSrdpD1icEGY1KAWfY_nyk15dsk6IZbtkktE3viOqfeidjLCSl6ZjZhqMaAiaEEALw_wcB

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've created a Varjo account, downloaded the latest Varjo base software and firmware.
I've also downloaded the latest version of OpenXR, Dirt Rally fix, and have started looking at other tools.

Now all I need is the headset.

I learned of a new tool for iRacing that allows you to easily store and swap graphics profiles including whether you are using OpenXR or OpenVR and all the other switches.

IRSideKick
You have to join a discord server to get access to it.

Join the irSidekick Discord Server!

Check out the irSidekick community on Discord - hang out with 3686 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

discord.com

 

[Kenny Paton]

Now all I need is the headset.

Damn, my notification just wasn't as exciting

 

[RCHeliguy]

What is cool is that they appear to have dynamic foveated rendering working. One guy is saying that it is helping in ACC he's just not sure by how much.

There is a OpenXR Varjo wrapper and I'm "assuming" it's making use of the underlying NVidia technology below. Remember that the Varjo only runs on Nvidia GPU's currently.

This whole OpenXR wrapper thing is a new concept to me. I'm not sure if I'll take the time to look under the hood to see how it works. I love that all the code is open source in GitHub.

https://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-vrss-2-eye-tracking-foveated-rendering-supersampling/

And more to dig into...

Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

Last Update: 05/21/2023. **The current state of muti-threaded DCS beta & Dynamic Foveation with the Aero** -Default output is Varjo OpenXR, hence no need to be run via shortcuts/command lines (at least as of now). Single threaded DCS still uses OpenVR API as default. -With multi-threaded DCS ...

forum.dcs.world

Feels like I'm jumping into the bleeding/cutting edge where there are new software releases in multiple places that all contribute to how this works.

A bit different than opening up SteamVR and letting it download whatever they've been up to.

Also downloaded and installed the new NVidia Driver from 2/8/2023.

Lots of moving parts to this.

 

[RCHeliguy]

LOL! I got a delivery from Varjo today...

They sent me a facial shield for use with wide frame glasses.

The 3D printed parts are Race Bass Isolator spacers.

Maybe a bit anal, but thought I would guarantee my alignment and make sure that they never shifted backwards. They had shifted a bit, but I think that was from when I first installed them with only 2 bolts and the brackets got loose right after I installed the D-Box. I don't think they've moved since I secured the brackets with 4 bolts which have stayed rock solid since then.

 

[RCHeliguy]

First impressions are that it is extremely comfortable and looks every bit like a high quality product.

 

[RCHeliguy]

What's very nice about the top adjustment strap is not just that it reduces the amount of pressure you need to hold the headset in place, but you can use it to adjust how the headset presses against your face from top to bottom. So by adjusting the strap on top you can set an optimum angle that relieves pressure at the top of the headset on your forehead

It came right up, updated the firmware for the headset.
I paired my hand controllers.
I put it on.

So far so good.

So far so good!!!!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Initial reactions after playing a little of

• Half Life Alyx
• Beat Saber
• Space Pirate Trainer
• In Death
• The Lab
• Robo Recall

I had the Varjo Base set to 35ppd and then just ran all these titles without doing anything else. It measured my IPD at 64.5. My 4090 didn't appear to be pushing too hard.

Absolutely sharp, no screen door.
Beat Saber and Space Pirate Trainer were perfectly clean and sharp.
In Half Life Alyx the Aero does out resolve the graphics if you look close enough.
The bit maps in In Death were a bit more noticeable.
The Lab looked very good as did Robo Recall.

The FOV appears to be enough so far. I need to try a sim.

I was told that the over the ear cans could pick up some of the Aero's fan noise and they did. It wasn't bad, but I could hear it and it might bother me at times. In game, I definitely didn't notice it at much. Like Beat Saber etc..
With the ear buds there was no pickup of that noise.

My triple flange ear bud sleeves are supposed to arrive today. I'm hoping they will help me with ear bud placement and they were highly recommended by a couple people who said the would sound better as well.

The Aero's 3.5mm headphone plug drives both the Sennheiser HD 569's and the Sure 215's well. I needed about 50% volume for each of them, so they were well within the efficiency I needed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

OK, the sharpness is addictive and it would be very hard to go back. I think this is a keeper.

My gut feeling is that if I can manage to use this headset in shooting games, that I should be fine in a sim. There was a little bit of adjustment, but it wasn't that bad. The very outer edge of the lenses is a tiny bit off, but everything else is crystal clear. I haven't seen any issues with Colors being off or noticed any Chromatic Aberrations.

The display looks bright and the colors look well saturated and not washed out. As expected no God rays or glare not that they ever really bothered me with my Index.

Let me repeat that these are extremely comfortable and more comfortable than any other headset I've worn for any length of time to date ( Rift CV1, Index, Reverb G2 ). However if you tilt your head down at the ground at a high angle you can feel the headset push a bit into your brow. That's about the only thing I noticed that I could remotely call negative about the comfort. The only concern I have is that the headset doesn't hinge smoothly like the Index. It ratchets when you put it on which makes me think that it could be a potential wear point. Only time will tell.

I don't know if I'll be able to try it out in iRacing until tomorrow morning, but I'm going to try.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

Initial reactions after playing a little of

• Half Life Alyx
• Beat Saber
• Space Pirate Trainer
• In Death
• The Lab
• Robo Recall

I had the Varjo Base set to 35ppd and then just ran all these titles without doing anything else. It measured my IPD at 64.5. My 4090 didn't appear to be pushing too hard.

Absolutely sharp, no screen door.
Beat Saber and Space Pirate Trainer were perfectly clean and sharp.
In Half Life Alyx the Aero does out resolve the graphics if you look close enough.
The bit maps in In Death were a bit more noticeable.
The Lab looked very good as did Robo Recall.

The FOV appears to be enough so far. I need to try a sim.

I was told that the over the ear cans could pick up some of the Aero's fan noise and they did. It wasn't bad, but I could hear it and it might bother me at times. In game, I definitely didn't notice it at much. Like Beat Saber etc..
With the ear buds there was no pickup of that noise.

My triple flange ear bud sleeves are supposed to arrive today. I'm hoping they will help me with ear bud placement and they were highly recommended by a couple people who said the would sound better as well.

The Aero's 3.5mm headphone plug drives both the Sennheiser HD 569's and the Sure 215's well. I needed about 50% volume for each of them, so they were well within the efficiency I needed.

I've got a pair of Shure SE846 that I used to wear daily. I used the triple flange for years and they are good, but not the most comfortable, and the silicone can irritate some ears after a while - they started to make my ears itch. I switched to Comply pro tips a long time ago and they are much better. Like the triple flange, they insert deeper into the ears so isolation is excellent - but they are infinitely more comfortable. https://www.complyfoam.com/collections/se215

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've got a pair of Shure SE846 that I used to wear daily. I used the triple flange for years and they are good, but not the most comfortable, and the silicone can irritate some ears after a while - they started to make my ears itch. I switched to Comply pro tips a long time ago and they are much better. Like the triple flange, they insert deeper into the ears so isolation is excellent - but they are infinitely more comfortable. https://www.complyfoam.com/collections/se215

It is funny you mention the 846, because my thoughts were that if I could get to the point where I thought I could live with earbuds, that would likely be the earbud I would want to have long term. I've heard absolutely nothing but praise for them and with the Gen 2's they have a new filter insert that is supposed to offer a surprisingly wide sound stage for earbuds. Stereo imaging may not critical for VR, or it might help.

Are the Comply Pro tips similar to the foam tips that come with the Sure ear buds? Or are they better in some way?

I think I'm still having issues getting proper placement, so I probably have some experimentation and a little learning curve.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I trimmed the smallest flange off the triple flange sleeves to get them deep enough into my ears, but I definitely like how they sound better than the foam that came with them.

I'm not sure if I just wasn't getting them positioned properly, but these seem to self center well and they sound better. They are still lacking in bass and a bit tinny, but much better than before. Vocals sound great, but songs are very hit or miss as to whether they sound decent or wrong.

Neither these or the HD 569's sound as good as the Index off ear speakers. I may end up 3D printing a mount for them and find a small amp to make them work. That said the ear buds are currently comfortable enough that I could manage to wear them a while.

BTW, I tried the Varjo with a single base station in the front corner. It was a bit flaky. In fact I think it might even be flaky in a sim rig although some people say they get away with just one. With two base stations I had no issues in room scale games and I assume the rig will be the same.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

It is funny you mention the 846, because my thoughts were that if I could get to the point where I thought I could live with earbuds, that would likely be the earbud I would want to have long term. I've heard absolutely nothing but praise for them and with the Gen 2's they have a new filter insert that is supposed to offer a surprisingly wide sound stage for earbuds. Stereo imaging may not critical for VR, or it might help.

Are the Comply Pro tips similar to the foam tips that come with the Sure ear buds? Or are they better in some way?

I think I'm still having issues getting proper placement, so I probably have some experimentation and a little learning curve.

Yes, you should definitely give them a go - they are quite frankly unbelievable for in ears. Some very clever engineering in them.

I've not tried the new extended filters but I did go through a period of making DIY filters using "Knowles Dampers" - filters usually used in hearing aids! There is a thread over on Head-Fi detailing the various mods. My old ears were happiest with the stock balanced filters and I gave up experimenting a long time ago, but I will give the new extended ones a try when I can get my hands on them, more for curiosity than anything else. - there will be a reason they are the new default.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interesting. Using the VarjoOpenXR runtime now.

In iRacing I'm running 35ppd and some fairly high graphics settings and getting 89-90fps in game. It is crystal clear. I am running the eye tracking foveated rendering in performance mode, and getting the following:

 

[RCHeliguy]

In Dirt Rally 2.0 I'm running full Ultra except MSAA 4x instead of 8x
I'm not seeing any jaggies so the 4x is fine,
According to fpsVR I'm getting a very solid 90fps, and it feels it.

Interestingly, I have not installed any patches or made any other adjustments.
I simply started up Dirt Rally 2.0 and after seeing I was getting 75-80 fps. I dropped the MSAA setting to get a solid 90fps. What I was not seeing was any stuttering, but the frame rate was slower and it would have effected me eventually. I could tell the refresh rate was just not quite there.

What they said was true, despite having more resolution than the G2, I'm getting solid frame rates at the same settings and have a much larger in focus area to look around in. I don't have that looking at a painting feeling either.

 

[blekenbleu]

despite having more resolution than the G2, I'm getting solid frame rates at the same settings

I had read a year or so ago a M$ developer explain that SteamVR via WMR involved an extra frame buffer copy per refresh that they had hoped to eventually eliminate.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I assume that developer is now either employed somewhere else or looking for a job after the lay offs.

So far my experience with the Varjo Aero has been remarkably free of surprises. Everything is meeting the expectations that were set.

High resolution, vivid color, no glare, check.
Slightly lower FOV than the Index, but easy to get used to because of the sharp edge to edge clarity, check.
CPU/GPU load similar to the G2, check.
No tracking issues in Rally
No issues with Index controllers.
Very comfortable

Can hear the headset fan when wearing over the ear headphones, but unnoticeable in game, check. Earbuds remove that issue.

Has no reprojection available, but with the 4090 so far not an issue.

When it is running at lower frame rates than 90fps it is still smooth without stuttering.

Using the Aero in Dirt Rally 2.0 I'm having no problem keeping up with my earlier times when using the Index, vs feeling off in the G2 and having my times suffering because of misjudging corners etc..

In the room scale shooting games I do miss having 120fps. I can feel the difference at 90fps. However I'm still enjoying the clarity and I'll deal.

In a perfect world, there would be 120fps, massive FOV, off ear speakers, and a CPU/GPU combination that could push that. We are getting closer.

What is weird at least for me is how quickly you just accept that this is how it was supposed to be in VR.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My HMD hangar needs to be lengthened and widened to accommodate the Aero's rear pad.
The current hanger bites into the middle of the rear pad.

The new one is 30mm longer and 10mm wider, but I ran out of Pearl Red
Blue will do for now, but it's time to restock my filament spools.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Damn! In a good way! I FINALLY got my Sure 215 ear buds positioned properly! There is a learning curve to getting these things in place correctly. I'm back to the stock medium foam pads.

There is no lack of bass on these ear buds. They actually sound pretty good for music. Now that I have them in my ears correctly I need to re-evaluate them on the headset.

Edit: I tried them out in Beat Saber and was very happy with how it all sounded in terms of bass, but I can hear their limits sonically. Still at 55% volume without amplification they were doing pretty well.