Isolation for rig on wheels in apartment block inc tactile feedback

[super kermit]

Hi All

My rig is on wheels (and has to stay on wheels) and I also need to be nice to my neighbors.

Rig is on a tiled concrete floor, though I can put an ikea rug down as an option over rubber matts?

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STOENSE Rug, low pile, off-white, 133x195 cm - IKEA

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I have a buttkicker mini LFE on the pedal deck and one on the seat. (2 x mini LFE)

Behringer NX1000D Power Amplifier 1000W with DSP (overkill?)

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NLR Next Level Racing GTtrack Simulator Racing Cockpit.

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I am thinking of using these to isolate the seat and pedals from the rig

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

to isolate the seat and the pedal deck from the frame and now considering the below to provide some immersion but also not annoy the neighbors.

Elite SRS ShakeCombo (includes SRS License for Bass Shaker) | simracingstudio

Save when you buy the SRS Elite ShakeCombo Kits include the following: 1x ShakeBox Elite 1x ShakeSeat 1x ShakePedal 1x ShakeBack Extra Layer of Padding (removable) on ShakeSeat SRS License for Shaking All cables Just plug-and-race Shakers tuning guide...

www.simracingstudio.com

Any feedback would be great, I went down the hole of more transducers then thought of my neighbors.

 

[Atak_Kat]

A while ago I was considering a way to mount these 'sideways' (sorry for lack of technical jargon), but never had a chance to try. My two ideas were simple:
1. put them just between the seat and the seat mount (where the bracket connects to the seat, not where it connects to the frame). In my case is a Sparco seat with the M8 holes on the sides. Since my BK is directly mounted to the seat, I figured this would be the first spot where vibration may travel out of the seat. And any 'radial' load on the mounts (if I understand correctly) would be limited just to the driver and seat itself (ie. none of the frame or other stuff underneath).
2. On many 8020 builds, there are two 40/40 pieces that the seat sliders or mounts connect to (mine run in the direction of back-to-front.) I think many people put these small vibration mounts between the 40/40 piece and the seat slider. My idea instead was to put them on the ends of those 40/40 pieces. So tapping the end of the 40/40 piece so the vibration mount just screws in there (there would be one on each end of the 2x 404/0 pieces). Then, mounting to the frame sections (in my case, it would have required me to move the centre piece of the frame a bit further forward to allow the 40/40 pieces with the vibration mounts to fit.

I didn't do it yet simply because I didn't find the time. But I assume those are not unique ideas. I never really researched it, but I assume others have thought of, or tried, something similar?

 

[blekenbleu]

others have thought of

Supposing that you mean the sort of isolator in @JohnBearmore's image with horizontal axial orientation:

I forgot to mention the horizontal ones are waisted. View attachment 504407

Isolators of that sort are typically not intended for appreciable static radial loads;
elastomers are liable to tear away from their metal fittings.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I would be very concerned that the seat mounts would be destroyed and come loose if they had a dynamic load where the threaded inserts are laminated into the fiberglass. They are designed for a static flush mount. Fiberglass is very brittle around a metal connection like that, and putting a lever arm on it that vibrates seems like asking for trouble.

I started typing this a while ago and by the time I posted it, I just repeated what @blekenbleu said.

 

[Atak_Kat]

Thanks guys. Will send that 'idea' to the bin then.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I would be very concerned that the seat mounts would be destroyed and come loose if they had a dynamic load where the threaded inserts are laminated into the fiberglass. They are designed for a static flush mount. Fiberglass is very brittle around a metal connection like that, and putting a lever arm on it that vibrates seems like asking for trouble.

Though you´re reasoning is valid, I wouldn´t be too concerned about the rigiditiy of FIA seat mountings.

Even seats tested to the older, now obsolete FIA 8855-1999 will have been tested with much higher forces than what you and I can throw at them.
Some of us don´t buy these seats new so it would be prudent to search for crash damage as tears around the mounts or broken fiberglass parts.

As long as the seat is structurally sound I don´t see a problem there because the direction of tactile vibration transmission is the same as the crash forces tested.

But I´m with @blekenbleu here, the "bobbin" kind of isolators does´n react to well to radial loads. An old motorcycle of mine ( BMW R80 GS) had an exhaust hanger like that which didn´t have to carry a lot of load, it was more to stabilize the last silencer against horizontal movement. I had to repair that thing about every two years ( around 20-30 kkm)


MFG Carsten

 

[RCHeliguy]

My NRG Prisma is not FIA certified and I still have issues with this idea.

 

[stigs2cousin]

As always it depends on the hardware .

As stated above I think an automotive grade seat should take the forces, but there is only one way to find out for shure.

MFG Carsten

 

[RCHeliguy]

As always it depends on the hardware .

As stated above I think an automotive grade seat should take the forces, but there is only one way to find out for shure.

MFG Carsten

Feel free to try it out on YOUR seat

 

[stigs2cousin]

My seat is automotive grade but bottom mount

A good isolation solution is yet to come .

MFG Carsten

 

[Bite_Witty]

Do you think using a rubber isolator that wasn't so tall would mitigate the horizontal movement issues? looking at these myself.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KFS6LTC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07KFS6LTC&pd_rd_w=dLoSp&pf_rd_p=887084a2-5c34-4113-a4f8-b7947847c308&pd_rd_wg=nnZ5H&pf_rd_r=3F1RSK4XV7ZQTTNTXHEH&pd_rd_r=7b2cad4d-15c6-41b9-8387-ebf3980a97da&smid=A1THAZDOWP300U&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMTZKUUtBSDc2QlZVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQxNDYyMlRCTEgwNk1CVzE1OCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzU2NDA2MkY5OTExQ1gyNzFOSSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Do you think using a rubber isolator that wasn't so tall would mitigate the horizontal movement issues? looking at these myself.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KFS6LTC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07KFS6LTC&pd_rd_w=dLoSp&pf_rd_p=887084a2-5c34-4113-a4f8-b7947847c308&pd_rd_wg=nnZ5H&pf_rd_r=3F1RSK4XV7ZQTTNTXHEH&pd_rd_r=7b2cad4d-15c6-41b9-8387-ebf3980a97da&smid=A1THAZDOWP300U&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMTZKUUtBSDc2QlZVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQxNDYyMlRCTEgwNk1CVzE1OCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzU2NDA2MkY5OTExQ1gyNzFOSSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

This is what I use, it's not that bad, but definitely not rock solid as when seat bolted directly to the frame. I think I got used to it already to even notice. Perhaps the best compromise option at the moment.

 

[Lesthegringo]

Maybe I'm a bit late to this discussion, but have you considered the hard rubber foam interlocking mats that you can get for kids play areas in Ikea, or for use in garage floors in Ace Hardware? They are about 15mm thick, and the ones I got from ACE were about a meter square. By putting the entire rig on that it isolates it from the floor, plus makes the rig super stable - and it's cheap

this is a similar but thinner version from Home Depot

Mats

https://www.homedepot.com/p/reviews/Norsk-Black-24-in-x-24-in-x-0-47-in-Foam-Interlocking-Floor-Mat-6-Pack-240447/300369254/2

Cheers

Les

 

[blekenbleu]

isolate just as well as rubber bobbins

If that bolt goes all the way thru,
it would seemingly compromise vertical isolation;
two-piece elastomer bushings are wanted:

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If that bolt goes all the way thru,
it would seemingly compromise vertical isolation;
two-piece elastomer bushings are wanted:

Don't want to argue, you are the expert, just saying that I have zero vibration transmitted to the rig itself.
It worked even better than I expected, I got into seat, leaned back and torqued out all remaining slack as it still compresses a bit under heavy load, nothing like like rubber bobbins but still some give.
100% happy, just wanted to share as seems like the area of seat to rig isolation after so many years is still based on very subpar bobbins solution compromising stability for isolation, this one seems to have the best of both worlds.
Just wondering why nobody came up with something simple like that before.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Maybe I'm a bit late to this discussion, but have you considered the hard rubber foam interlocking mats that you can get for kids play areas in Ikea, or for use in garage floors in Ace Hardware? They are about 15mm thick, and the ones I got from ACE were about a meter square. By putting the entire rig on that it isolates it from the floor, plus makes the rig super stable - and it's cheap

this is a similar but thinner version from Home Depot

Mats

https://www.homedepot.com/p/reviews/Norsk-Black-24-in-x-24-in-x-0-47-in-Foam-Interlocking-Floor-Mat-6-Pack-240447/300369254/2

Cheers

Les

You want rubber, not foam.

 

[blekenbleu]

zero vibration transmitted to the rig itself.

Cannot argue with that, particularly since easier to install.
Comparing these to a BS acolyte's die springs would be interesting.

 

[Lesthegringo]

You want rubber, not foam.

Surely you want whatever works, and this does for my rig - it sits firmly into the top of the foam (it isn't soft stuff, it barely compresses by a millimeter with the rig sitting on it) and supports the rig evenly over the whole of the underside frame.

I won't argue that what you use doesn't work, but hard rubber foam mats also do a good job, at least in my experience, and with very little in the way of expenditure and effort

Cheers

Les

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If it is as hard as vulcanized rubber, it won't matter, I just haven't seen any. My experience was with interlocking colorful mats for kids play area (they supposed to be soft by design to prevent injuries) and home gym foam mats that I had to return, they all were soft and would sink heavy rig like P1X to the floor.
Just my experience with similar but not necessarily same products.

 

[Lesthegringo]

The ones I got were from ACE hardware and were very definitely purposed and sold as 'garage floor' mats, not kids play area mats, so your comment about the softness may be applicable in this case - as I had the ones I bought I didn't do a working comparison to other ones.

However re-reading some of the thread, I spotted a very pertinent point that would definitely negate the use of the mats for some people. My rig had the entire bottom frame resting on the mat, so the weight of the rig is spread over a very large surface area. As I said, my rig doesn't push further than about a millimeter into the mat.

In the case of the OP, he was using his on wheels, or feet in other cases quoted. As they would be point sources, or at least very much reduced area contacts, they would definitely sink further in to the mat than my use.

Nonetheless, for using the mat in the way I did it was a good solution for me. I removed the foot blocks from my frame exactly for that, so the entire frame would be supported evenly

Cheers

Les

 

[ahshams]

Thanks @Andrew_WOT for sharing your build. I see you have installed the isolators between seat and slider rail assembly - does it create any issue when sliding the seat?