Is there too much grip in AC?

[Radek Zukowski]

Many simracers think that there is too much grip in AC. What do you think? Please explain.

I personally think that road cars are fine, but race cars feels very grippy, especially when braking. For example, on Mugello in Zonda I can brake from about 300 kph into first turn just before 100m sign. In P4/5 I can brake after 100m sign. That's really really short (almost F1 like) and just doesn't feel right.

Also, according to Top Gear, Zonda R stops from 200kph to 0 in 4.3 seconds.
A member from Simracing.pl (norbi) measured times in AC (few different tracks - Mugello, Monza, measurements taken a few times):
hard tires - 3,7s (ABS), 3,6s (no ABS)
medium tires - 3,7s (ABS), 3,5s (no ABS)
soft tires - 3,7s (ABS), 3,4s (no ABS)

Since threads on AC forum discussing grip were closed I decided to discuss it here.

 

[Dinca Andrei]

Peace

 

[LazyBug]

I believe spend alot of time to test if this or that is right or true on a sim racing is quite waste of time, a game is still a game no matter how full sim it is & game is mean to play, not test.
I mean whats the big deal if that car a little bit off pace doing accelerating or braking compare to real life performance ??
Who know its actually player's computer that make the car behave differently ?? Thats just so many unknown element. So i say why not just play & enjoy the game as long as all the same car in the same game behave the same for you & me then all should be fine, unless my Zonda R actually can brake better than your Zonda R in this very same game then its time to make some noise

 

[betterstranger]

So you broke the setup to achieve worse times? Brake it even more so maybe it will be even worse?

Still a guessing game. Be serious - this sentence looks like 'you broke everything to show that my fella is wrong!'.
And even more funnier thing - Ferrari F40 according to Ferrari's official materials accelerate from 0 to 100kmph in 4.1s while independent test shown that it is able to accelerate in 3.8s... How would you comment on this?
You could take that as answer to this:

Jesus. That's just common sense. What do you think? Pagani claim that Zonda R 0-100 is 2.7 s. Do you think they did this on a damp track with 100kg fuel? Or did they try to maximize the performance?

Really, people judge so quickly without having any solid info - that what's wrong with today's world.

 

[Turk]

The fact the normal road cars feel right and the race cars feel like they've way more grip sounds right to me. It should feel that way.

 

[RaceNut]

I do think the road cars feel great - very natural. The race cars do seem to have a lot of grip but, I have never driven a hardcore race-prepped vehicle in real life.

The poll suggests that the issue is simply black or white. Of course, it's not that simple.

 

[Requiem84]

I'll repeat what I said on the AC forums:

Road cars are also spot on to me, the tires of race cars are also spot on regarding lateral grip.

Longitudinal grip however feels a tad overdone. I'd imagine the tires losing traction just a bit sooner when braking or accelerating. Just based on a gut feeling. If Kunos looks into it and decides the current grip levels are realistic, I happily race the racecars. No deal braker for me

 

[Kevin Ascher]

I can only judge the road cars as I've never driven a racecar in real life and the road cars feel awesome to me. Race cars look good, too if you compare them to videos. So no, I don't think there is too much grip.

 

[nijeat]

http://www.pagani.com/zonda/zonda_cinque/default.aspx

Here is Zonda Cinque's spec on official site, and it's said the cinque's 200-0 braking is 4.3sec, and sadly the Zonda R's time is not on the site.

Well, the cinque's dry weight is 1210 kg and road-legal whereas the R is 1070 kg and track-only, so would it really be true they have the same 200-0? I never see it that way, I think the top gear guys had gone wrong maybe. And as long as the dev said they've been provided the tech datas and supported from the manufacturer it is very unlikely that they made such a silly mistake I think.

 

[Radek Zukowski]

Yep. Also I used the term "almost F1 like". So I searched for some F1 braking figures, here goes:

according to this, 2003 F1 car brakes from 200 to 0 in 1.9 s:
Fast Cars

According to Brembo docs, for Monza a 2012 F1 car can brake from 328 do 121 in 2.21s:
http://www.circuitcat.com/documentos/noticias/13_BremboIDCardGranPremiodItalia_eng.pdf

According to this, an F1 car can brake from 320 to 0 in 4s:
F1 Brakes - Team Vamos Autocross


So I guess that 3.5-3.8s for Zonda R doesn't now seem that improbable (especially that official figure for Cinque is 4.3s).
I begin to think that Clarkson really took the value from Cinque data sheet.

 

[Graham Laing]

Woohoo! ... so many Ex-Spurts here

Can I tell you that in my 1972 Ford Cortina, 0-60 MPH was 22 Mins 17 seconds.

Braking - At 70 MPH. you start braking at Junction 2 of the M1 in order to get off the Motorway at Junction 1

 

[Turk]

Wohoo! ... so many Ex-Spurts here

Can I tell you that in my 1972 Ford Cortina, 0-60 MPH was 22 Mins 17 seconds.

Braking - At 70 MPH. you start braking at Junction 2 of the M1 in order to get off the Motorway at Junction 1

Was that with super softs or normal street tyres?

 

[Dinca Andrei]

I heard those cars in the days had the hypersoft compound.....just a small tap on the brake and you got a flat face on the windshield...Maybe he was driving without tires,with empty rims?!?

 

[Graham Laing]

Hey, I had enough money to buy a set of 4 x £2.75 retreads!

 

[Dinca Andrei]

Joke aside,cortina is my fav. from GTL

 

[betterstranger]

Yep. Also I used the term "almost F1 like". So I searched for some F1 braking figures, here goes:

according to this, 2003 F1 car brakes from 200 to 0 in 1.9 s:
Fast Cars

According to Brembo docs, for Monza a 2012 F1 car can brake from 328 do 121 in 2.21s:
http://www.circuitcat.com/documentos/noticias/13_BremboIDCardGranPremiodItalia_eng.pdf

According to this, an F1 car can brake from 320 to 0 in 4s:
F1 Brakes - Team Vamos Autocross


So I guess that 3.5-3.8s for Zonda R doesn't now seem that improbable (especially that official figure for Cinque is 4.3s).
I begin to think that Clarkson really took the value from Cinque data sheet.

Now that's what I like. Some proper stuff in accordance to real data! +1 from me

 

[Deleted member 151827]

Isn't this Horse dead yet?

 

[Aristotelis]

Isn't this Horse dead yet?

Let me give it a last beat up, just because…
The F1 data @Radek Zukowski posted are very nice and pretty much confirms AC results

I'd like to add something from personal experience, no fancy data. I've had the luck to try lot's of fast cars but also owned an M3 E36 with 321bhp. The car started as a street car and gradually transformed to a track day weapon. Now, with good high performance street tyres I was never able to spin the rears in 2nd gear going straight at a dirty street road, except at Greece' really slippery roads. With semislicks I wasn't even able to spin 1st gear…
Now, turn the wheel a tiny bit, and from standstill you get all the tyre spinning you want no matter the tyres. That's how it works, and if you haven't tried it it's difficult to understand what a slight degree of turn or camber can do to traction. Go to the track, and instead the traction is so much that you get understeer. As a matter of fact at the end I've installed adjustable antiroll bars. Full oversteer setting for the track, because otherwise I had understeer, and the opposite on the street, just to say how it works. In Greece roads, I would spin on 3rd gear lol, asphalt quality varies sooo much.

Lastly a question for all of you.
What will happen when we will introduce "green" track grip levels (right now is perfect always full grip levels)? Rain later? Brake temperature that is disabled right now?

I don't mind discussing all of these, but when I see some people that they are actively trying to find the bug that does not exist, then I just decide I have more important things to do, like finishing the damn game hehehe. That's because talking with someone that is so convinced there is something wrong, is not productive in the end.

cheers, thanks @Radek Zukowski for finding proper data and everybody for keeping the discussion on a good level.

 

[Stelios]

Owned.

By the way Aristoteli, funny you mentioned Greek roads, i can even power slide my S3 in greek roundabouts

 

[Dinca Andrei]

..............
Lastly a question for all of you.
What will happen when we will introduce "green" track grip levels (right now is perfect always full grip levels)? Rain later? Brake temperature that is disabled right now?
.............

Then i am sure we wil have new threads like," not enough grip "....

 

[Deleted member 151827]

Easy fix is just to release an ice track for these so called "Real SIM" racers!