PC1 Is Project CARS a simulation? lets vote!

[Mike85]

Hi guys!

The time has come and many sim fans have purchased and tested Project Cars already! So lets express our opinion about how ''SIMMY'' this title is!

 

[Mike85]

it's a ''zone'' where your in-game wheel won't turn at all while you are turning it physically

 

[Kyle Pearson]

That's why you could've included multiple set ups from the faster drivers, so 2-3 different profiles, and hey, if someone didn't like any of those, they're certainly free to tweak it themselves, but the base profile sux balls, and I find it odd that something this important wasn't properly attended to.

I'm not SMS, but I don't think that would have mattered. There is not going to be any one, two or three sizes fit all. I like the direction SMS went with the FFB. The only thing IMO which is missing is documentation on the FFB terms and how they affect driving. Heck, I've seen some the the WMD documentation on it and some of it still confuses me with the FFB, so I only play with a few of the settings.

I quickly tuned a profile myself which gave me solid feel overall, ie, removed some/maybe all the deadzones, but the physics and overall ffb still feel too simple to rate as a high grade sim, even up against something as old as GTL and say the mighty Boss 302 mod.

I prefer to call it, intuitive. People shouldn't have to "re-learn" how to drive when driving a computer simulation. If they do, then there is something not quite right with the simulation. The main difference with pCARS is the behavior just around (over and under) peak grip. Some sims have a very sharp fall off which is just plain wrong. You can go over the limit and not lose the car. pCARS does make this more gradual so you end up with more chances/ability to save it in some of those occasions. If that makes it "easier" than other sims, I don't know. However, I would rather compare it to real driving behavior than other sims (as who is to say the other sims "got it right"?).

 

[jimortality]

I think SMS have gone in a direction never before seen in sim racing and people are struggling to get used to change. They could've have gone with profiles but they've given you the tools to make it individual and I like it.

 

[SnappyDEe]

Why is it that when constructing an answer to the question in the title of this thread,
"Is Project CARS a simulation?", most of the discussion is about FFB?
Are there other elements which are a part of something being a sim?

iRacing is a sim yet it can not represent dynamic weather changes or day to night transitions. Now that they have driver swaps users can simulate endurance events. I've seen that they have hosted several "24 hour" races and I'm very sure that many club races have done so as well. However, conditions (lighting, temperatures, etc.) never change. Does that disqualify it from the sim category?

I participated in a MP race at Spa in pCars. I was in a GT3 car where the change from day to night and some rain thrown in completely changed the way I needed to drive the car. I had to decide whether to pit or stay out. In fact, I knew there was a possibility of rain during qualifying so I was sure to get out immediately and bank a lap just to be sure I had a decent time in. Sure enough, about half way through quali it started raining and peoples times were 4 to 5 seconds off of the dry times. It was crazy! One of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in sim racing. Not to mention the fact that I could see that one of the cars near me on the grid was on a different tire strategy. Amazing, really.

Now, the FFB is not bad but setting it to individual liking is very, very complicated and unlike any other sim that I know of. Once I dialed it in to my liking it feels great but I still tweak it here and there. Just to see if I like what I have changed a little more. I think that PC users are, by nature, tinkerers who will play with certain settings regardless. Others have complained that they want it simple.

Is it the best sim ever? No. Is it the worst? No. It is my favorite right now, though.

 

[Ace King]

The G27 ships out of the box with a 16% FFB deadzone. That's huge, especially compared to other wheels.

That's just not true. See my comment above. PCARS even adds to this by lowering the default FFB to 85%, which increases the minimum input/FFB deadzone to 33% for the G27! Compare that to AC for instance that has a default G27 profile with a minimum force of 12%. Works great for the G27 straight out of the box. Perfect? Nope, but good enough. So yes, decent defaults will definitely help. Of course you still need to tweak to get it to your preference/perfection.

Though personally I'm expecting/hoping for sims to have something like Wheelcheck built-in in the future...

I put the link for wheel check so there shouldn't be any excuses not to know your deadzone.

Did you know that identical G27 wheels or other types can vary considerably in their deadzones?

In an earlier post i stated that the more you decrease your FFB the more you will increase your deadzone so you need to always use wheel check after making FFB adjustments.

 

[Jake Fangio]

Why is it that when constructing an answer to the question in the title of this thread,
"Is Project CARS a simulation?", most of the discussion is about FFB?
Are there other elements which are a part of something being a sim?

iRacing is a sim yet it can not represent dynamic weather changes or day to night transitions. Now that they have driver swaps users can simulate endurance events. I've seen that they have hosted several "24 hour" races and I'm very sure that many club races have done so as well. However, conditions (lighting, temperatures, etc.) never change. Does that disqualify it from the sim category?

I participated in a MP race at Spa in pCars. I was in a GT3 car where the change from day to night and some rain thrown in completely changed the way I needed to drive the car. I had to decide whether to pit or stay out. In fact, I knew there was a possibility of rain during qualifying so I was sure to get out immediately and bank a lap just to be sure I had a decent time in. Sure enough, about half way through quali it started raining and peoples times were 4 to 5 seconds off of the dry times. It was crazy! One of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in sim racing. Not to mention the fact that I could see that one of the cars near me on the grid was on a different tire strategy. Amazing, really.

Now, the FFB is not bad but setting it to individual liking is very, very complicated and unlike any other sim that I know of. Once I dialed it in to my liking it feels great but I still tweak it here and there. Just to see if I like what I have changed a little more. I think that PC users are, by nature, tinkerers who will play with certain settings regardless. Others have complained that they want it simple.

Is it the best sim ever? No. Is it the worst? No. It is my favorite right now, though.

Nailed it!

 

[Andrej Svajger]

Is it the best sim ever? No. Is it the worst? No. It is my favorite right now, though.

That's what matters in the end.
1+

 

[Kevin Pheiffer]

This is my opinion after 2 weeks of playing......
Really hard to decide exactly what type of game it is. The graphics are good of course and the overall layout of the game is not too bad.
The driving for me does feel a bit arcade (Grid?), but that being said, maybe I should give it a while longer before being negative. I really enjoy the sound (Got a great set of speakers, which helps).
Overall though, I still think a game like GSC is more fun and feels more sim-like even though the graphics aren't as good.
Before the storm, remember, this is just my opinion.

 

[Ace King]

I find it most interesting that several people are making comparisons with other sims to determine if it feels and handles correctly when the correct approach should be to make your comparison with how a similar car handles in real life. Using another sim for a comparison might very well not be as accurate as you might be led to believe!

 

[David Ignjatovic]

.Using another sim for a comparison might very well not be as accurate as you might be led to believe!

Whilst potentially true, it's also a matter of steering precision and satisfying communicative ffb, which is what we experience in ALL the real PC sims, granted, some do it better than others.....however, what difference does it make how accurate the physics are if the ffb feels lifeless and or has deadzone issues for example.

 

[Andy_J]

What is a "deadzone"?

It's a place where the walking dead are still prevalent and very dangerous to all. Keep away from it.

 

[Vladimir Antic]

Ive played it no stop scince launch, for me there nothing the other sims can give me that pCars cant do better. Especially now that i got my FFB set perfectly.

Best of the best!

 

[bmanic]

Whilst potentially true, it's also a matter of steering precision and satisfying communicative ffb, which is what we experience in ALL the real PC sims, granted, some do it better than others.....however, what difference does it make how accurate the physics are if the ffb feels lifeless and or has deadzone issues for example.

.. and yet you keep ignoring the people who disagree with this. For instance in MY OPINION the FFB of Project CARS is by far the best of any sim ever released. There is more relevant grip information in project CARS than in any other simulator. This actually helps me to learn drive faster. I haven't been to a real trackday since forever (and last time I did some real racing was ice rallying so that doesn't count) but I'd wager that I am now a better driver than ever before, thanks to truly understanding slip angle and knowing what to "listen to" when it comes to maximizing laptimes and the potential of the car.

And all this extremely detailed feel also has helped me with understanding car setup tweaks. Does a car feel a bit "wobbly" and "non-compliant" to my inputs? Open up the car setup, put some more air in the tires, do some tiny tweaks to the suspension, maybe check that I don't have excessive toe at both rear and front.. then off to the track and I suddenly find the FFB has changed quite a bit, due to my car setup tweaks. It's the first FFB where I can actually trust the FFB enough to base my car setup tweaks on it instead of just visual and audio feedback like in other simulators.

So yeah, what to you is a dull non-communicative ffb is to me the best FFB ever made.

 

[Ace King]

.. For instance in MY OPINION the FFB of Project CARS is by far the best of any sim ever released. There is more relevant grip information in project CARS than in any other simulator.
And all this extremely detailed feel also has helped me with understanding car setup tweaks.
So yeah, what to you is a dull non-communicative ffb is to me the best FFB ever made.

To make it very clear i do like the majority of what this sim has to offer and agree with what you're stating "IF" you have all these ingame FFB settings adjusted in perfect harmony in order to receive all this great FFB "relevant grip information" which for many people is an overwhelming task. Reading through all the FFB topics leads me to believe that the majority of purchasers are still not satisfied with their FFB settings!

So, my thoughts/questions for this company (SMS) is why haven't you figured out all these FFB settings for us in the past 4 years of beta testing to eliminate all these trial and errors that we as the customers have to perform in order for this sim to get all the proper FFB information?

 

[jimortality]

To make it very clear i do like the majority of what this sim has to offer and agree with what you're stating "IF" you have all these ingame FFB settings adjusted in perfect harmony in order to receive all this great FFB "relevant grip information" which for many people is an overwhelming task!

So, my thoughts/questions for this company (SMS) is why haven't you figured out all these FFB settings for us in the past 4 years of beta testing to eliminate all these trial and errors that we as the customers have to perform in order for this sim to get all the proper FFB information?

It was an overwhelming task yes but there has been tons of help from people on here and I think people either dismiss the help or just don't bother to read half of what has been posted. Bmanic has done loads of testing, so has Lazerou, there are files to put straight into your documents with more settings. How much help do you want for goodness sake or maybe people just like to whine about it anyway.

 

[Ace King]

It was an overwhelming task yes but there has been tons of help from people on here and I think people either dismiss the help or just don't bother to read half of what has been posted. Bmanic has done loads of testing, so has Lazerou, there are files to put straight into your documents with more settings. How much help do you want for goodness sake or maybe people just like to whine about it anyway.

To make it very clear i have my FFB settings working decently though not perfectly like my FFB is in AC. After my AC purchase i was up and racing in minutes and my FFB felt great and it's because the company did all this work for us!

My point is as a paying customer that the company should have had all this figured out for us so we would have more time enjoying the racing!

 

[Vladimir Antic]

To make it very clear i do like the majority of what this sim has to offer and agree with what you're stating "IF" you have all these ingame FFB settings adjusted in perfect harmony in order to receive all this great FFB "relevant grip information" which for many people is an overwhelming task. Reading through all the FFB topics leads me to believe that the majority of purchasers are still not satisfied with their FFB settings!

So, my thoughts/questions for this company (SMS) is why haven't you figured out all these FFB settings for us in the past 4 years of beta testing to eliminate all these trial and errors that we as the customers have to perform in order for this sim to get all the proper FFB information?

My guess is "user preferece", there are alot of tastes and alot wheels and even the same kind of wheel might differ quit alot, becuse of the condition its in.
Or meybe they did, and nobody likes it as it is.
I got my setting right quit fast so im not botherd now but i agreee that the information in the FFB many could be made understandable. Now its just term no ones ever heard of, overwhelmigly difficult.

 

[jimortality]

To make it very clear i have my FFB settings working decently though not perfectly like my FFB is in AC. After my AC purchase i was up and racing in minutes and my FFB felt great and it's because the company did all this work for us!

My point is as a paying customer that the company should have had all this figured out for us so we would have more time enjoying the racing!

Why always the reference to AC? it's possibly the worse sim out there so what you have as your ffb won't be how I like my ffb, who's right?

 

[SnappyDEe]

"Whaaaa...the company should have done it for me. I am a vastly experienced sim racer but can't come to terms with something set up differently. Boo Hoo"

No, I'm just a whiner and a pCars/WMD hater.

Like it or hate it. Who cares.

 

[Ace King]

I like most of what Pcars has to offer and in my opinion (i'am allowed my opinion) setting up the FFB for the most accurate sensation is one of it's weak links but once it's all properly setup then it's all worth it.