iRacing Review

[OverTake.gg]

Bram Hengeveld submitted a new blog post:

iRacing Review

More than five years after its initial release, I feel it’s finally time to give iRacing the professional review treatment. Five years is more than enough time for one game to sort out all of its issues, the game costs several times more than your traditional boxed PC game available on the shelves at Best Buy, and deciding whether to take the plunge based on biased forum ramblings is never a good idea. Six hundred million laps later, it’s time to finally take a look at iRacing, and determine...

Continue reading the Original Blog Post

 

[Chris Partridge]

Hi Chronus - In that video I am deliberately provoking wheelspin - with huge dollops of throttle - because the point of the video was to demonstrate to someone else that the car can be saved easily when the rear wheels let go. The car doesn't fall into an unrecoverable spin was what I was demonstrating.

As for dynamic - I mean changing lighting and changing track conditions. At the moment they are entirely static inhibiting long endurance racing and the thrill of that to some degree.

 

[William Levesque]

Hi Chronus - In that video I am deliberately provoking wheelspin - with huge dollops of throttle - because the point of the video was to demonstrate to someone else that the car can be saved easily when the rear wheels let go. The car doesn't fall into an unrecoverable spin was what I was demonstrating.

If that for you is saving a slide, then it proves Chronus point perfectly

 

[Chris Partridge]

If that for you is saving a slide, then it proves Chronus point perfectly

Why?

 

[William Levesque]

Why?

You really think that what you showed in saving the car from a slide ?

Your video only demonstrates the basis of throttle steering, no more...

 

[Bakkster]

Here's an old video of countersteering the SRF. Not huge moments, you can still get sideways enough to still spin, but it doesn't seem too far off anymore.

 

[Rob Gray]

I dont know how you guys drive but I can consistently pull the star mazda back from a slide and on many occasions have drfted it through corners, all four wheels sliding. I will say this though, car control improved markedly for me the instant I switched to clubsport pedals, though that was before the NTM on most cars. Th slide thing still holds true; i slide the SM theough turns one and two. Admittedly i have about 500 races over 28 months of iRacing, so not at all inexperienced.

I played a bit of simraceway in the equivalent car and it was no more easy to drive. Not hard, just not easy. I applied the same techniques as in iracing and it was fine.

 

[Jarninho]

>>
Yes, the cars are not perfect and have some flaws. The biggest one is obviously the 'tank slapper'. The developers have acknowledged the problem they have with sudden weight distributions. They have also done that with some other things.

But those things make the sim not undrivable. It's easily the best sim out there.

I beg to differ. The tank slapper, the ice skating, have been around for years. How many times will you accept "acknowledgement" before you finally realize that given the time they had, it should have been fixed long ago?

If it were easy to fix, they would have done that already, don't you think? I would like to see them fix it, but it's not something you can just buy off a shelf. But to me it's not a very big problem. It doesn't make the game unplayable. Far from. It's still the best driving sim out there.

I do not agree on the ice skating. Since NTM, that problem is gone. I have 0 problems with slow corners now. Did 38 laps ouround Laguna Seca last week at a pretty fast pace. 1x (not at the Cork Screw...). In practice I just have the occasional tankslapper, but I haven't had that in a race for a long time. It usually happens when I'm still working on a setup and learning the track.

 

[Chronus]

If it were easy to fix, they would have done that already, don't you think?

Are you serious? Are you actually excusing their not-fixing something with "it's not easy"? Unbelievable.

Mate, this issue has plagued Dave K.'s sims for years and years. It affected iRacing right nfrom the get go and still does. If 5 years or the time (long) since the NTM was pre-released is not enough to fix something, then how much would you think they need? 10 years?!

I would like to see them fix it, but it's not something you can just buy off a shelf. But to me it's not a very big problem. It doesn't make the game unplayable. Far from. It's still the best driving sim out there.

I see where you're coming from. No, it's not the "best driving sim out there" and the reasons for it are known. It is a GOOD racing sim, not the best.

I do not agree on the ice skating. Since NTM, that problem is gone.

Totally false. We discussed this at the official forums, in spite of its own problems, the NTM pre-release was doing a good job in terms of getting to solve the problem. But 2.0 came out and the ice-skating continued.

You believe otherwise, odd as it is, but that's your "view". Many, many iRacers aren't happy about it, but you are, go figure.

 

[Bakkster]

Are you serious? Are you actually excusing their not-fixing something with "it's not easy"? Unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure it's more a case of not confusing '"X isn't fixed" with "they don't plan to fix X" or "X will always be broken". Once again, tank slappers used to be EVERYWHERE with the early NTMs. About a year ago they tweaked the sidewalls and massively improved the problem, but didn't eliminate it. I think acknowledging that there is progress, just very slow, is important for everyone to consider. It isn't OK that the issue is there, neither are they ignoring it.

Totally false. We discussed this at the official forums, in spite of its own problems, the NTM pre-release was doing a good job in terms of getting to solve the problem. But 2.0 came out and the ice-skating continued.

Definitely depends on the car. I finally gave the Miata a spin since the latest build which got rave reviews. It really does feel fantastic, and if they can impart that feeling into the cars I prefer to drive they'll have done very well.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the ice skating has to do with individual tires, rather than the model as a whole right now. Otherwise how could the Miata be so good and something like the FW31 be so bad?

 

[nijeat]

One question.
Are these crap movements still there?

 

[Chronus]

I'm pretty sure it's more a case of not confusing '"X isn't fixed" with "they don't plan to fix X" or "X will always be broken".

It clearly is not what he meant, Bakkster. And not the first time I read that argument either from certain people. That is fully inexcusable.

Once again, tank slappers used to be EVERYWHERE with the early NTMs. About a year ago they tweaked the sidewalls and massively improved the problem, but didn't eliminate it. I think acknowledging that there is progress, just very slow, is important for everyone to consider. It isn't OK that the issue is there, neither are they ignoring it.

Well, you mention the Miata below, and from experience and talking to other iracers there is a tendency: the Miata has become, over the years, quite stable, quite...believable, NTM notwithstanding. So, no surprise that even with ups and downs brought on by diverse builds, the Miata is still one of the best rides out there - not perfect, but very believable (people I know own Miatas in RL and they like the iRacing one too).

Acknowledgement of progress is rather irrelevant here. With the exception of the Miata and the MP4-12c (too recent), all other cars have been great, then terrible, then great, then terrible again. The pattern is too obvious for it to be a calibration issue - more like experimenting with the model and see what type of and where the consequences happen (i.e., which cars are affected and how they are affected). The issue is real, it pre-dated the NTM, and is similar in nature from one tire model (OTM) to the next (NTM).

So, progress (minimal, all things considered) barely noticeable or subject to very obvious fluctuations is no progress at all if the issue persists and devs have had time (more than 5 years, overall, and almost 2 years since 2.0's debut in Season 3 2011) to either fix it or work around it.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the ice skating has to do with individual tires, rather than the model as a whole right now. Otherwise how could the Miata be so good and something like the FW31 be so bad?

As I said, overall, the Miata is probably the most trustworthy physical model in iRacing. No surprise there.

As I also said, overall there clearly is an issue and a trend and it points to the tire model. What I find surprising is that seemingly 2 different tire models sport the same issue across the board.

Now, the question people ought to be asking is this: we now hear about Karts and tracks for them, and probably other novelties in the pipeline. But how can they invest a more than relevant amount of effort into new content (and never before tried content) when the raison d'etre of iRacing is still lacking?

Someone said they're clearly without a direction nowadays, maybe this is right maybe it isn't. But one thing is obvious: diverting effort from the essential (physics and fixing issues with EXISTING content) is a bad, bad policy.

 

[Bakkster]

Which goes to show why for iRacing, as with any game, you should pay for it as it is worth it to you now, not in the hopes it gets better later. A long term subscription doesn't make sense unless you're enjoying it right now.

 

[Chronus]

I agree.

It was hard in mid-2010, though, when a lot of my buddies were in a craze because of iRacing and so many "analysts" hailing it as the 2nd coming of racing sims...it was hard not to set aside a big amount of money and invest in cars and tracks as I and probably many others did. Not iRacing's fault, yep, our own only, but still my expectations then were quite high given the talks in the forums about impending radical improvements or revolutions.

By the time I realized it was nothing but hype, oops, darn, too late. Fantastic service (the best ever online simracing), fantastic concept, serving a growing community, organized races, safety ratings, etc - all first class no doubt and I have no problem hailing it as THAT, but the reason why I purchased the license and that much content, physics, surprisingly lacking, light-years behind the best work done with ISIMotor2 or NKP.

Certainly, that is still what keeps most from tossing it aside: the hope that, physics wise, it will turn out very good.

But yeah, I certainly agree with you.

 

[Chris Partridge]

The Corvette at Sebring in rF2 is a whole lot more slippy than tje one at Sebring in iRacing. Worth having too a look at the opening lap of Zolder GT World in 2012 - or perhaps those spins were recoverable too in real life.

 

[Chronus]

The Corvette at Sebring in rF2 is a whole lot more slippy than tje one at Sebring in iRacing. Worth having too a look at the opening lap of Zolder GT World in 2012 - or perhaps those spins were recoverable too in real life.

Hold on, C3PO. rFactor 2 is under development (just a couple of weeks ago, build 198 was released) whereas iRacing is already a full product (evolving one for years, for sure, but a full product regardless). Comparisons between the two sims are unjustified and unfair to rFactor2 - let it be released and then we all shall see. Right now, you can't possible expect any rF2 car to be finished or even half finished.

 

[Jarninho]

If it were easy to fix, they would have done that already, don't you think?

Are you serious? Are you actually excusing their not-fixing something with "it's not easy"? Unbelievable.

Mate, this issue has plagued Dave K.'s sims for years and years. It affected iRacing right nfrom the get go and still does. If 5 years or the time (long) since the NTM was pre-released is not enough to fix something, then how much would you think they need? 10 years?!

I would like to see them fix it, but it's not something you can just buy off a shelf. But to me it's not a very big problem. It doesn't make the game unplayable. Far from. It's still the best driving sim out there.

I see where you're coming from. No, it's not the "best driving sim out there" and the reasons for it are known. It is a GOOD racing sim, not the best.

I do not agree on the ice skating. Since NTM, that problem is gone.

Totally false. We discussed this at the official forums, in spite of its own problems, the NTM pre-release was doing a good job in terms of getting to solve the problem. But 2.0 came out and the ice-skating continued.

You believe otherwise, odd as it is, but that's your "view". Many, many iRacers aren't happy about it, but you are, go figure.

Yes, I am serious. And yes, you are confusing things. The tankslapper was never an issue in iRacing. With the old tire model (otm) you could just drift through the corners without any penalty. Plus, you would spin if you hit a curb, ánd slow corners felt like ice. NTM solved that. But it introduced the tankslapper. Progress? Yes, a lot (in my book at least).

In almost every build they update the tire model. It really does get better and better every time. It's far from done, but there's no way you can claim they are not making any progress. They just haven't got the tankslapper issue sorted out.

The beta tire model was only available on the new nationwide car for a few weeks. I remember I could not drive it on a road track at all. But, that could be me.

I do wonder though. What are better driving sims? I've tried rFactor, nKpro, FVA, RRE and AC (techdemo). They also have their flaws.

 

[Chronus]

Yes, I am serious. And yes, you are confusing things. The tankslapper was never an issue in iRacing. With the old tire model (otm) you could just drift through the corners without any penalty. Plus, you would spin if you hit a curb, ánd slow corners felt like ice. NTM solved that. But it introduced the tankslapper. Progress? Yes, a lot (in my book at least).

I see. You would go on forever saying this or that "was never an issue" and the NTM solved "this" and "that". Really...

Have it your way then.

In almost every build they update the tire model. It really does get better and better every time. It's far from done, but there's no way you can claim they are not making any progress. They just haven't got the tankslapper issue sorted out.

Whatever people point out as a flaw, you'll simply say:"no, they sorted that out". Go figure...

The beta tire model was only available on the new nationwide car for a few weeks. I remember I could not drive it on a road track at all. But, that could be me.

Yep. That could be you only. Makes sense, given the "reasoning" you established.

The NTM pre-release had its own problems, but many felt 2.0 was a step backwards. You believe otherwise, fine.

I do wonder though. What are better driving sims? I've tried rFactor, nKpro, FVA, RRE and AC (techdemo). They also have their flaws.

Flaws of others which, obviously, have nothing to do with iRacing's own flaws.

Some of the people commenting on iRacing's flaws, even right here, have put into it hundreds of Euros and done hundreds of races. Some of them are A-class iracers, some are PRO drivers. Just because these flaws are serious enough to warrant clear and serious criticism does not make mean iRacing is a bad sim or a bad service. On the contrary. What it means is that the hype surrounding it (from people like you or the marketing dept. itself) is far from the truth.

 

[Jarninho]

Show me a replay of a pre-ntm tankslapper mate. It was never an issue on the otm. But if you keep on insisting that it was, it must not be hard to find some prove Oh, and while you are at it: ice skating with the ntm. Gotta be able to show some vids of that as well.

Also, once again the question (which you haven't answered): What is the best driving sim at the moment?

 

[Chronus]

LOL

Bud, you've made it a point to simply deny what people are telling you - a very comfortable position to be in, how will you prove that these issues weren't there, right? I know how you "people" operate and it's always the same way, from the official forums to forums outside. I will not engage in further conversation with you.

Best driving sims out there? Yes, indeed, there are, and no, I didn't answer, never will to you anyway.

Good riddance.

 

[Jarninho]

Dude, I have been a member for a couple of years and have done lot's of races on the otm and ntm (>150 road races, >150 oval races, both >3000iR). I have a real life racing licence and did a race at Zandvoort less than 2 weeks ago. I think I don't have to listen to other peoples opinions to form my own of iRacing. However, it's far from perfect, so if there's a better sim out there, I'd love to know. I haven't found one.
Also, my memory is not perfect, but neither is yours. That's why I am asking for just a little proof that the tankslapper was there with the otm. Indeed, I cannot prove it wasn't there. I have searched and can't find anything. I have seen one in real life at Zandvoort though. Right in front of me.