Illegal mods, steer clear of them. Simracing604, we stand with you too.

[Nitro McClean]

I read a lot here about legal and illegal and about violating copyrights. It is presented with some certainty. I think the real problem is that it's all just a little more nuanced.

If I draw a drawing of a Formula One car with pencils on paper, and I give this drawing to someone, am I punishable? What is the chance that FOM can successfully sue me if I have not used the term "Formula one" and the official F1 logo in the drawing?
If I reconstruct a car or track for a racing simulator, and share it on RaceDepartment with the rest of the world without asking for money, is that illegal or not? Describing which car it is about, without mentioning the make and type of the car is a bit difficult. Am I stealing copyrights from the car's manufacturer if I put a lot of time and energy into making it beautiful, and then give it away for nothing (well, just for the credit then)?

I am also not a legal expert. I think making mods and sharing them for free with the rest of the world is in a gray area of the law. But I think the moment I start selling mods, making money from them, which I have not asked permission from the car manufacturer or the track owner, that this is punishable. Then I make money with someone else's property, then I steal from that other person.

That's what this is all about. The Sim Dream modding group sells the intellectual property of another without permission. I think that is clearly punishable. The Sim Dream modding group goes even further by accusing those who made it of illegal practices. Not only is that legally clearly wrong, but it hits all modders deeply.

Since it is obviously very wrong what the Sim Dream modding group, not only emotionally but also legal, can I not really understand why the Sim Dream modding group has not already been tackled very hard? Doesn't anyone have the guts or the possibilities to do something about this? Maybe YouTube should also be sued. These moral knights devise an algorithm to automatically recognize violations of music copyrights (with the mistakes they make in it) but also provide a platform for criminals such as the Sim Dream modding group.

Can we also do a little more here than just express our dissatisfaction, and think together about how the Sim Dream modding group can really be tackled?

 

[Itzdatmancam]

Im going to archive each page. Use this for evidence

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307172814/https://www.********************/shop/

http://web.archive.org/web/20200815144945/https://www.********************/shop/page/2/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173615/https://www.********************/shop/page/3/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173758/https://www.********************/shop/page/4/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173937/https://www.********************/shop/page/5/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174117/https://www.********************/shop/page/6/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174241/https://www.********************/shop/page/7/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174503/https://www.********************/shop/page/8/

 

[random_racer]

wrong url. sry guys

 

[Aiden237]

I read a lot here about legal and illegal and about violating copyrights. It is presented with some certainty. I think the real problem is that it's all just a little more nuanced.

If I draw a drawing of a Formula One car with pencils on paper, and I give this drawing to someone, am I punishable? What is the chance that FOM can successfully sue me if I have not used the term "Formula one" and the official F1 logo in the drawing?
If I reconstruct a car or track for a racing simulator, and share it on RaceDepartment with the rest of the world without asking for money, is that illegal or not? Describing which car it is about, without mentioning the make and type of the car is a bit difficult. Am I stealing copyrights from the car's manufacturer if I put a lot of time and energy into making it beautiful, and then give it away for nothing (well, just for the credit then)?

I am also not a legal expert. I think making mods and sharing them for free with the rest of the world is in a gray area of the law. But I think the moment I start selling mods, making money from them, which I have not asked permission from the car manufacturer or the track owner, that this is punishable. Then I make money with someone else's property, then I steal from that other person.

That's what this is all about. The Sim Dream modding group sells the intellectual property of another without permission. I think that is clearly punishable. The Sim Dream modding group goes even further by accusing those who made it of illegal practices. Not only is that legally clearly wrong, but it hits all modders deeply.

Since it is obviously very wrong what the Sim Dream modding group, not only emotionally but also legal, can I not really understand why the Sim Dream modding group has not already been tackled very hard? Doesn't anyone have the guts or the possibilities to do something about this? Maybe YouTube should also be sued. These moral knights devise an algorithm to automatically recognize violations of music copyrights (with the mistakes they make in it) but also provide a platform for criminals such as the Sim Dream modding group.

Can we also do a little more here than just express our dissatisfaction, and think together about how the Sim Dream modding group can really be tackled?

I know it sounds crazy long-winded but telling car brands rather than Forza, Codemasters or sony? Its harder to prove taken models than selling stuff with brands on it illegally? And tell F1 too.

 

[Ofitus21]

View attachment 452374

Wrong link. Their site is very much active

And honestly, I don't care if they shut it down now. They would find a new domain or put it back up after a couple of weeks.
I want those big companies to see this

 

[Aiden237]

View attachment 452374

Wrong link. its https:// www. assettocorsamods .org/

 

[Cote Dazur]

More voices bravely supporting mike 604 and all of us as a community, raising against sim dream / assetto
corsa mods bullying

 

[Itzdatmancam]

Im going to archive each page. Use this for evidence

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307172814/https://www.********************/shop/

http://web.archive.org/web/20200815144945/https://www.********************/shop/page/2/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173615/https://www.********************/shop/page/3/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173758/https://www.********************/shop/page/4/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307173937/https://www.********************/shop/page/5/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174117/https://www.********************/shop/page/6/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174241/https://www.********************/shop/page/7/

http://web.archive.org/web/20210307174503/https://www.********************/shop/page/8/

Where the * shows up replace them assettocorsamods(.)org

 

[SATLAB]

The car shape is "unique" and copyrighted to Geoff so it's not like copying any real car

Frankly I don't like how the whole modding culture evolved into self governing entity
At a well known site members debated their own time limitations on mods being public
Even international knitting clubs have their official organizations, membership and charters

A part from the fact that every real car shape is unique and copyrighted... this kind of reasoning also would’ve been applied to any sort of AC mods built from scratch and based on fictional cars. For example the Red Bull X2010 from Gran Turismo 5.
I really don’t understand why you are comparing my work to “stealing” issues. The mod is completely free, built from scratch (moreover the original gp3 models are encrypted in a special format so no conversion is possible... if you need any proof) and it has also been approved by one of the original developer of GP3.

Case closed, Peace

 

[mantasisg]

Wait, what do you mean it's not like copying a real car? Real cars are also unique and protected, I don't see how you distinguish between the two.

I have no idea, but maybe he meant stuff that is straight up stolen, exact down to every vertex and every pixel. While honestly recreating actually existing real cars involes lots of true work and skill to work out the shapes, details let alone to model them. It is basically true work. However, I am unsure if it is right to do exact copies even virtually, as IRL there already are precedents of manufacturers hunting replicas and destroying them, which IMO is wrong if they aren't mass produced and branded as not originals. But in digital environment I have only seen people avoiding branding - logos, names.... it is big question. No actual logos and names is big hit already, as lots of people are all after the image.

Well... I am not sure, maybe no need to overthink... ******************* thieves sells stuff which they didn't make, and they use actual real car names and logos. They do it all LOL

Best thing is that no one will ever copyright the physics or sounds. But lets be honest... most simacers are nearly only about models, and the rest is just blind faith - most people unfortunately doesn't have mature judgement. This is great benefit for those who learn how much effort is enough (which sometimes can be very low, like for the *******************), and great demotivator for those who are about to put lots of effort. It is wrong.

 

[Alfredino]

@BigMike8 you have support from Constrictor Modding Team and some people of the F1 Challenge community

Constrictor Modding Team Mods

Constrictor Modding Team Mods. 798 vind-ik-leuks · 4 personen praten hierover. CMT is a territory of nonprofit Formula One mods for F1 Challenge 99-02. Happy stay and happy mods

www.facebook.com

 

[BillyBobSenna]

this is by far not all the content they have stolen but is the one that I'm aware of:
-GP 1986 mod its ripped from the 1987 ferrari from ACR
-Ferrari sf1000 and the whole physics for the 2020 f1 mod is ripped from the sf90 from ACR + models from the codemasters f1 2020 game
-GP 2005, 2007 and 2008 mod its ripped from VRC 2005 and 2007 ferrari, mclaren and renault
-GP 1990, 1992 and 1993 its ripped from ASR 90's F1 cars + some of the RSS 1990 physics
-GP 1997 its ripped from VRC Ferrari and Mclaren from the same season
-GP 1967, now this is a tricky one, this might not be true but as far as Im aware Bazza and the f1classicforum did a rework of SD 1967 mod and released it free with better sounds, physics and models, then SD stole the updated version and copyright them (If anybody has a better source or history of the mod please post it)
-GP 2001, 2002 and 2003 is ripped from MSF 2002 williams mod

Thank you for the detail. These guys are bad news. How hard would have been to give these talented developers a few coins?

 

[Case_]

Your comparison makes little sense to me, perhaps you can explain further? To put your example next to Assetto Corsa, the music played in the pub, was already approved by the copyright owner. They said it was ok to edit the music (mods are approved by Kunos). and you can play it in this particular pub.

I would like to point out that it was not my comparison, I was responding to someone else, and I was responding only to that specific part of it (the example with the band that was - if I understood it correctly - meant as an example of what is supposedly OK. So I was pointing out that the example was actually not OK.
Also, I have no idea what Kunos said or didn't say regarding it being OK to make mods based on copyrighted stuff, but I seriously doubt whatever they said means you can just go and use whatever you like in your mod, because there will very likely be quite a few copyrights and licenses involved that are simply not for Kunos to allow unlimited use of.

I am far from a legal expert though. But the way I see it: a modder has no legal ground for his work. So if another modding team steals your mods and sells them, you're pretty much screwed. No legal actions can be taken, right? Perhaps somebody with knowledge on the subject can explain a bit further. In the end it's all Kunos making their platform eligible for modding.

I don't think it's that simple. Modders certainly have certain legal ground for their work, they're authors/creators like anyone else. It just depends on whether they have legal rights for everything their mod includes. Which IMO in the majority of cases they don't (I'd go as far as to say vast majority), because mods tend to exist in a fairly grey are where for example company logos on liveries are frequently misused without permission, but the rights owners don't do anything about it, so it's perceived by many as if that makes it OK (but it really doesn't, not technically, it is still an infringement, just without any action taken against it by the owner). And these things also can get pretty complicated pretty quickly and even courts would have a hard time deciding - for example what if a modder makes a car model that is very much a replica of an actual car? If that is so, then the "shape of the car" is likely infringing on someone's license or rights. But at the same time, if the modder created the model from scratch, that means the model itself is still their own work, and as such is protected by copyright and nobody else can use that model without his permission, so we have a pretty complicated situation at our hands that can quickly get even more complicated if someone else uses that model and modifies it further. These are things that even individual lawyers might have differing opinions on, and can be very complicated if they end up in court.

And singing under the shower is a copyright infrigement as neighbors can hear you.

Seriously if this is the kind of world we live in, we'd better plan on moving to Mars soon.

Singing in the shower probably could be copyright infringement under certain circumstances, if it would be considered public performance. I think it's quite unlikely, but who knows.

And you should certainly start your move to Mars ASAP, because yes, that is indeed the world we live in. I would kinda worry that if you move to Mars, you'd be taking the copyright laws with you

Hope all you guys who are on here have also visited YT and reported their channel.

Report inappropriate videos, channels, and other content on YouTube - Android - YouTube Help

We rely on YouTube community members to report or flag content that they find inappropriate. Reporting content is anonymous, so other users can't tell who made the report. What happens after I report

support.google.com

I know it's meant well, but I would very much advice against mass reporting their channel and even encouraging others to do so. I know it feels it's only fair, but as was already pointed out by someone (I forgot who, so I apologize, it was quite a few comments), this is not the way. We can certainly show our support, but the only appropriate course of action here as far as their channel is concerned is for Mike to appeal against the false strike he received. People mass reporting their channel "in revenge" is technically doing the exact same thing they did, as in abusing a system that's meant for something else. And the more people do it, the more it can even be considered (cyber)bullying, and might actually complicate things for Mike.

 

[Paintboxer]

I would like to point out that it was not my comparison, I was responding to someone else, and I was responding only to that specific part of it (the example with the band that was - if I understood it correctly - meant as an example of what is supposedly OK. So I was pointing out that the example was actually not OK.
Also, I have no idea what Kunos said or didn't say regarding it being OK to make mods based on copyrighted stuff, but I seriously doubt whatever they said means you can just go and use whatever you like in your mod, because there will very likely be quite a few copyrights and licenses involved that are simply not for Kunos to allow unlimited use of.


I don't think it's that simple. Modders certainly have certain legal ground for their work, they're authors/creators like anyone else. It just depends on whether they have legal rights for everything their mod includes. Which IMO in the majority of cases they don't (I'd go as far as to say vast majority), because mods tend to exist in a fairly grey are where for example company logos on liveries are frequently misused without permission, but the rights owners don't do anything about it, so it's perceived by many as if that makes it OK (but it really doesn't, not technically, it is still an infringement, just without any action taken against it by the owner). And these things also can get pretty complicated pretty quickly and even courts would have a hard time deciding - for example what if a modder makes a car model that is very much a replica of an actual car? If that is so, then the "shape of the car" is likely infringing on someone's license or rights. But at the same time, if the modder created the model from scratch, that means the model itself is still their own work, and as such is protected by copyright and nobody else can use that model without his permission, so we have a pretty complicated situation at our hands that can quickly get even more complicated if someone else uses that model and modifies it further. These are things that even individual lawyers might have differing opinions on, and can be very complicated if they end up in court.


Singing in the shower probably could be copyright infringement under certain circumstances, if it would be considered public performance. I think it's quite unlikely, but who knows.

And you should certainly start your move to Mars ASAP, because yes, that is indeed the world we live in. I would kinda worry that if you move to Mars, you'd be taking the copyright laws with you


I know it's meant well, but I would very much advice against mass reporting their channel and even encouraging others to do so. I know it feels it's only fair, but as was already pointed out by someone (I forgot who, so I apologize, it was quite a few comments), this is not the way. We can certainly show our support, but the only appropriate course of action here as far as their channel is concerned is for Mike to appeal against the false strike he received. People mass reporting their channel "in revenge" is technically doing the exact same thing they did, as in abusing a system that's meant for something else. And the more people do it, the more it can even be considered (cyber)bullying, and might actually complicate things for Mike.

The reporting of their channel is using YouTube's reporting system correctly. There is an option to report any video for fraud/scam including the use of them including links to their own website in their video descriptions where they sell fraudulent products. I get though we shouldn't flag for copyright breaches as they have done though if we are not the correct content owners.

 

[AndreasFSC]

This is my imaginary BTCC Alfa Romeo livery

How annoying is that?

Some cars look ok, but some have bad materials settings. They didn't care that much...

Strange rims:

 

[TL98_RD]

Use me as a #cancelsimdream button

 

[v3n.rd]

SimDream stealing external 3D Models from a Codemasters F1 title while they are being bought by EA?
Stealing Physics from RaceSimStudios? Using official Names and appearances from official Racing Team and Car Manufacturers?
I'd shut down and refund everything if i were in their position, there might be already some Cease & Desists of lawyers of some Teams underway as there might have been already contacts last year with legal teams of companies that are involved. If you think you can go unscathed, you are wrong. Stealing is Wrong.

 

[LeSunTzu]

Singing in the shower probably could be copyright infringement under certain circumstances, if it would be considered public performance. I think it's quite unlikely, but who knows.

And you should certainly start your move to Mars ASAP, because yes, that is indeed the world we live in. I would kinda worry that if you move to Mars, you'd be taking the copyright laws with you

On our way to Mars we'll revive that old principle that there is not legal action when there is no actual loss. One of those rules that seem to have been killed by corporations greed and internet nonsense.

 

[Nitro McClean]

Thank you AJM Racing for this one.

 

[Case_]

On our way to Mars we'll revive that old principle that there is not legal action when there is no actual loss. One of those rules that seem to have been killed by corporations greed and internet nonsense.

Yeah, leave me out of your "old principles", thanks.