How much does a decent set of pedals help lap times?

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by jebfour, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. jebfour

    jebfour

    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12
    Hello everyone – first post here, but have been lurking for a bit.

    I got into sim racing about a year ago and am currently using a Next Level wheelstand with a Logitech G920 setup. I understand that this is not a “high-end” wheel/pedal setup but it’s what I have for the time being. However, I’ve never personally cared for the feel of the pedals. They feel like toys to me and don’t seem to have much modulation (personal opinion).

    Please understand I’m a racer at heart…and that it is killing me to be several seconds behind the top guys in a session. While I know that practice makes perfect, is there time to be made up with a decent pedal set or is it just for realism? Will it connect to my current wheel until I can afford to upgrade that as well?

    Any suggestions and experiences are appreciated.
     
  2. Beef36

    Beef36

    Messages:
    130
    Ratings:
    +46
    The best bang for buck upgrade for the G920 is a brake load cell mod, such as Nixim, GTEYE or RicmoTech etc. This will help you become more of a racer at a very low cost.

    Spending more money on Fanatec, Heusinkveld, DSD etc pedals won't make you faster, but the higher end pedals do increase immersion and enjoyment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Bluestar Racing Premium

    Messages:
    286
    Ratings:
    +77
    Fanatec Clubsport V3 are the next step!
    I can say that i win about 1 sec on the thrustmaster horrible pedals :poop:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    235
    Ratings:
    +103
    You can run a hot lap on just about anything. It’s the consistency that matters. That’s where the higher end pedals pay off. Better build quality, smoother travel, consistency in application and adjustability to your preference.

    I’d upgrade the wheel first personally as the feedback from the car will come into the your hands first and foremost.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    4,151
    Ratings:
    +1,448
    Hey,
    I'm using a G27 so similar ffb and similar pedals. Last year I had enough, opened up the pedals and swapped the stiffer spring of the brake pedal with the clutch pedal so when I do left foot braking it's a lot more comfortable.

    Anyway I also cut a generic kitchen sponge so I only got the soft spongy part and threw away the rough surface part. I then screwed the soft sponge into the springs. It fits pretty perfectly!!
    Now when I brake it gets exponentially stiffer but I can still reach 100%.

    This really gave me consistency! And I'm not talking about just hotlapping, I'm talking about racing with a no-ABS car. The crucial part is that your muscle memory always hits the right pressure point. When you don't have a real "pressure curve" your foot will easily overshoot when something stressful or unexpected happens.

    I tested the Fanatec CSW F1 bundle in a local store, running a Playstation with a Playseat and F1 2018.
    The pedals were the CSL Elite 2 pedals with the load cell kit.

    It was pretty similar to my sponge-mod but at home I drive with only socks on, in that store I did my laps with my Nike Air Force 1. I drive my real car with them but they are kinda "thick".

    Judging with this in mind the Load Cell really needed a lot more force from my legs and foot. Hitting the right pressure to just barely get a locked up wheel was super easy! With socks I bet it's a bit of a workout already!

    To sum it up: I would recommend to either mod your brake pedal of the G920 pedals or getting either the Fanatec V3 which come with a lot of options, load cell and brake-vibration for ABS trigger simulation or signal when you lock up afaik or getting the Fanatec CSL elite with the Load Cell kit!
    With Fanatec pedals you would use them as a separate USB device!

    To mod the G920:
    - you're losing warranty afaik, I remember thinking "well one would definitely see I opened the pedals!"
    - budget mode: screw a kitchen sponge into the spring
    - buy a load cell kit for the Logitech pedals (separate USB cable!)
    - or get one of the "rubber piece" mods (no changes to cables/usb)

    It will definitely help!

    Btw I think the Logitech FFB is okay to be fast enough, I know quite some aliens that use a Logitech wheel. Most of them have a modded brake pedal though!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  6. ThugUK

    ThugUK
    Premium

    Messages:
    150
    Ratings:
    +49
    To answer your second question they won’t connect to our wheel, but you don’t need them to as they have their own usb connector so go straight into your computer/hub. The downside is you need an extra USB port and sometimes it can cause conflicts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jebfour

    jebfour

    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12
    Thank you to all for the replies! Reading through your responses made me think about a few things. To begin with, my consistency, which is consistently inconsistent if that makes any sense. I’m sure much of that comes down to me but I honestly feel as though I fight the brake. As I mentioned originally, I don’t really feel much modulation.

    Now, looking at the suggestions below, I started looking around the internet for comparisons, additional info, etc.

    Looking at the Ricmotech load cell mod, the price is roughly $130 (for me in the states). Which is not excessive. However, I started looking at the other suggestions listed in this thread and ran across a few things along the way…

    Fanatec CSL Elite LC for roughly $200.

    At this price point, I’m only $70 more into things than doing the mod. These seem to have an adjustable loadcell that would allow the driver to fine tune things to his liking.


    Fanatec Clubsport V3

    Now these are obviously a bit more money at $330. However, seeing the adjustability that they have brought up something else; I currently do not have a rig of any kind. I use a Next Level wheelstand and sit on the couch. I put a large pillow behind my back so that I don’t sit too far back. I have the computer connected to a TV on the wall. This setup is actually pretty fun but from an ergonomic standpoint it is far from ideal and creates an odd angle at my feet. It would appear that I would be able to adjust the angle of things with these pedals to create a more realistic angle until the time comes that I can put together a full rig. The last thought here is that even at 46 years old I care how things look. What can I say, these look pretty cool. Would spending the additional money be well spent when looking to the future with upgrades to my wheel, etc.?

    Is there anything I’m overlooking or not properly considering? Thank you to all for you help. I don’t know anyone who is into sim racing so at this point I rely on the internet for information. Your input is very much appreciated!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    4,151
    Ratings:
    +1,448
    This reads perfect!
    I'd say it now only depends on how much money you want to spend on your simracing hobby!
    If you got the spare money without a big hassle I'd say just go with the Clubsport V3! The jump to something really high end wouldn't be big I think in the future!

    Every high end wheel is on a separate USB anyway and won't come with pedals! So yeah, your pedals would be "good to go for the future and with upgrades"! :)

    If you aren't sure how much simracing will stay as your hobby or you don't have that much money loosely lying around I'd say grab the CSL LC and be happy. You lose out a bit and you might want the adjustability from the V3 at some point though!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. alexSchmurtz

    alexSchmurtz
    SpeedyMite Racing Staff Premium

    Messages:
    3,499
    Ratings:
    +1,880
    A couple months ago I made the move from the crappy two pedals set that came with my T300 to a Fanatec CSL Elite LC. I was within my previous lap times within a week but I can't say I gained time wise. I improved a lot more during the 2 years with the TM pedals!
    Like others mentioned, I feel more consistent, and I'm less prone to mistakes. Instead of on/off buttons, I now have very progressive brakes… and throttle! That's what surprised me most at first: I can have a much better control of the car because the throttle is progressive too now. Like catching a slide on a curb is possible now, while I was gone before ((I could only cut of the throttle and the rear was gone…). Getting use to the brakes took a bit longer but this is night and day.
    One thing you need to consider too: even at the lowest setting, you need to press hard on the brake pedal. Your pedals must be firmly attached! I have a Playseat Challenge: I'm really happy with it but I feel I'm on the limit. I need to improve a bit more how I attached the pedals as the back is still lifting up a bit under braking...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Piotr Dul

    Piotr Dul
    Sunday Driver Premium

    Messages:
    213
    Ratings:
    +104
    I'm using G27 pedals with Nixim brake and throttle spring mods for nearly a year now. The difference is day and night comparing to factory setup. Brake pedal has this feel of biting point of brake pads and throttle is harder but it provides better modulation. An extra bonus is I got them connected to my TM T300RS base through Leo Bodnar adapter so they gain extra resolution. To summarize when it comes to better lap times then maybe I'm a littlbe bit faster (not sure on that) but as mentioned by other guys before this kind of a mod gives much better consistency which I can only confirm. In addition to that I got myself a karting shoes recently as my feet especially left foot on the brake gets tired quickly due to hardened spring. Those karting shoes gave me another bonus to consistency.
    If you have money go for Fanatec V3 pedals, if you low on budget go for Logitech pedals mods.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. jebfour

    jebfour

    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12
    Well, after much debate as to whether I actually needed these, I ordered a set of Clubsport V3 pedals this evening! I'm pretty excited. Once they arrive and I've tried everything out, I'll update this thread with my thoughts so that I can hopefully help the next guy in my shoes.

    Thank you to those that replied here. This seems like a great, helpful community and I hope to be a part of it for a while to come!
     
    • Like Like x 7
  12. Richard Dastardly

    Richard Dastardly
    Premium

    Messages:
    635
    Ratings:
    +194
    Keep your CSPs very clean, even a little bit of fluff can screw them up. You'll also have to mount 'em to something. I moved from modded g25 pedals & didn't notice all that much difference at first, but after a while you start noticing some definite improvements - just don't expect a giant change in laptimes out of the box.
     
  13. Leonardo Ratafiá

    Leonardo Ratafiá
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,585
    Ratings:
    +698
    I've a friend who's fast with any pedals, rn he's using g29 pedals on ACC and he's doing top 20 laptimes so it's not the set of pedals, is how you use them. So any fancy or pro set of pedals won't make you any faster unless you're fast already with a logitech wheel.
    That's the truth. Then I understand the hight quality, the load cell, the braking power, the looks, etc
    Just practice more
     
  14. Pappa_G_27

    Pappa_G_27
    Premium

    Messages:
    131
    Ratings:
    +109
    When I moved to cs v3's it took me a while to get used to them. So don't be disheartened at first if you are way off the pace. However once you get the pressure sensitivity set up the way you like it won't take long until you understand why these pedals will make you quicker and more consistent.

    I don't have mine mounted to a rig, but sort of wedged up against the wall. You will probably have to do something similar, but you can tweak the pressure settings. I've had to lower the pressure setting so they don't lift but I don't mind that. One day I'll get to mounting them.
     
  15. callumjtc

    callumjtc

    Messages:
    53
    Ratings:
    +17
    I should be able to answer this soon, I am moving (hopefully!) from stock G27 pedals to some DIY hydraulic pedals, after racing for just over a year, so will have a direct comparison of lap times to feed back with. Please feel free to follow progress in this thread:
    https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/diy-hydraulic-pneumatic-pedal-project.159946/
     
  16. Richard Dastardly

    Richard Dastardly
    Premium

    Messages:
    635
    Ratings:
    +194
    Less about outright pace than consistency, I think. Better gear certainly helps the latter. There's people on the AC RSR boards posting top times with gamepads...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    4,151
    Ratings:
    +1,448
    So true! And nobody wants to drive a 2 hour stint in an endurance race with a gamepad :roflmao:
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. jebfour

    jebfour

    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12
    Hello Everyone,

    In an attempt to help the next person in my situation, I thought I would post an update…

    I received my new pedalset recently but unfortunately didn’t have much time to try them out…until this evening. Here are my thoughts:

    They may not make me faster (hard to believe they wouldn’t though), but in my experience, they certainly made things far more enjoyable. I seemed to be far more accurate and make less mistakes. Things were just far smoother and I was much smoother on the brake. Everything just felt much more precise – I hope that makes sense. I don’t regret this purchase in the slightest! Please make no mistake, I’m grateful to have purchased my original setup as I hope the next owner will be – they got me started on this fantastic hobby!!

    To that end…Now I have to wonder if I would get more enjoyment if I purchased the matching wheelbase and a wheel?

    As there is no way I can talk myself into a direct drive wheel (yet). I was considering the Clubsport V2.5 wheelbase along with perhaps - this wheel - to get things going? I understand this would not be inexpensive, but I’d rather buy once than but three times.

    One of my concerns is that if I buy this wheel, would I be able to use it on other wheelbases should I decide to upgrade in the future? Also, if I get to a point that I decided to get a second (or third) wheel, is the quick release included to easily swap things out? There seems to be some conflicting, or perhaps just outdated info out there. It's also possible that I just haven't looked in the right place.

    I apologize for the questions, which are likely dumb to many of you. However, I sincerely appreciate your help and advice!
     
  19. callumjtc

    callumjtc

    Messages:
    53
    Ratings:
    +17
    Probably best to save up, bite the bullet and go for the Fanatec DD1 or DD2, won't need to worry about a DD wheel wearing out, and should be vastly better than the V2.5.
     
  20. Turk

    Turk

    Messages:
    905
    Ratings:
    +271
    I basically went through your upgrade about 2 years ago.

    I decided to invest in sim racing as my hobby though and got everything I needed in one go, the Fanatec V2.5, BMW wheel, V3 pedals, a sim rig to put it all in and VR.

    The wheelbase is a huge improvement over entry level, at the time I was debating getting a DD wheel but I wasn't disappointed at all with the V2.5. I wouldn't really be able to justify the cost of a DD wheel now, the V2.5 is plenty. The fanatec wheels can be adapted to work with other wheels, they tend to be used with the DD wheels that have been on the market. They will work with any other Fanatec product.

    I would recommend getting the performance kit for the pedals, they also make a huge difference, I found the pedal too soft as standard. Rig also helps a lot. Armchair setups move around, I ended up with shoulder pains and back pain after seasons. So there's your excuse, it's better for your overall health to sim race on a rig.

    Just recently bought the Mclaren wheel. There was a big back lash against Fanatec using a cheap plastic mount with it and they now supply the wheel with the full metal mount. So I doubt we'll see Fanatec cheaping out on the mounts any time soon.

    Fanatec stuff is probably the best on the consumer market. The next stage is low volume high end gear that can costs hundreds if not thousands. You really need to be doing a lot of sim racing to justify those costs.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.