Hoping this is not a sign of things to come

[Kevin Watts]

Like most other virtual racers I eagerly awaited the release of Assetto Corsa and purchased it the day it was released. I was stunned by how polished it was as an alpha/beta/early access game and enjoyed not only the superb visuals but the crisp believable handling of the cars as I threw them around the laser scanned tracks. As each week went by I looked forward to the next batch of fortnightly content and was happy to see each new car and track was crafted as well as the last. Not even the silly bickering on the Steam forums over whose game was better could dull my enthusiasm or the banal criticism’s by the console gamers because you couldn’t ‘pimp’ your car with gaudy body-kits like Forza Motorsport or that the game didn’t already have 1000 cars like Gran Turismo. Each new announcement via their web-site or Facebook page brought more excitement – a new manufacturer license, a laser scanned Nordschleife – the future looks bright…

Then it happened. The first quick and dirty conversion quite literally ripped from another game. News spread and this track suddenly became the hot topic, the ‘must have’ despite it being taken warts-and-all from a game released nearly 10 years ago. Rather than herald this new ‘mod’ it left me despairing for the racing sim community. While many virtual racers and racing simulation sites rightly shunned discussion of this ‘rip’ there were many more making asinine excuses for the author essentially taking this work without permission and grafting it into a new sim. Theft is theft no matter if you ‘get away with it’ or not or even that you give it away freely. It reminded me of rFactor and how when it was released it showed so much promise. For months we saw 3d meshes being shown by talented mod makers working their magic on new cars and tracks made from scratch.

It all seemed so exciting and then conversion tools reared their ugly heads. All of a sudden sites like rFactor Central were awash with poorly ripped work from Grand Prix Legends, Geoff Crammonds Grand Prix 4 among others. Far from pushing the genre forward it felt like we were now going backwards. The same racers who argued over the radius of a hairpin in Simbin’s rendition of Macau were suddenly silent when rFactor became awash with low poly conversions of 10 year old games complete with poorly defined racing surfaces, low resolution textures and cardboard cut-out tree’s and track side objects which screamed ‘FAKE’ as you sped past them. Questionably legal content appeared and then disappeared from the net as lawyers and mod makers played cat and mouse.

Is this really where we want to go with Assetto Corsa? - A step backwards porting generations old content complete with all their imperfections into a next gen simulation? There was a ‘gold rush’ in rFactor when the conversion tools appeared to be ‘the first’ to bring a popular track to rFactor, be it Spa or Brands Hatch for example so why would someone spend time carefully building a track from scratch when others are just ripping it from another game and fudging it into this new sim. Have our expectations really been lowered so far that we’d accept the grave robbing zombification of old content like this?

 

[Lars Bargmann]

piracy? did he also included a full copy of rbr? you are talking like he is publishing a full cracked game/programm on a torrent....So if it goes to you NO ONE would make a mod for anything. Cause in all games it stand: Modify the programm is forbidden. Changing parts of it is forbidden. So its only ok when he open up a legal business, rent or buy the sourcecode from the game he will mod and then of course sell it.

Are you being ignorant on purpose?
The term "piracy" covers content, music, movies, pictures as well as source code etc.
Content from another game is being distributed, which according to the license of the original game is illegal.
I have said nothing at all about putting stuff into games, like it's been possible for years with rFactor, Race07 and many more. I don't think there is anything in the license for those games, that deems it illegal to put stuff into them (aka. mods), but the content you put into them must come from somewhere and if that particular "somewhere" is another sims copyright protected content, THEN it becomes illegal.

 

[Simon Roberts]

So if he own rbr and he is able to make a track from it running on a other programm and dont charge money for that its stealing? in the readme also stands if you dont own rbr your a bad person

So for me modding is all that stuff. Look how far you can go with things. And converting things from one programm to another was and will ever be a big source of modding. Cause its one way. the other is build things from scratch. But whats next? Then the companies will come and say: Ohhh you did a mod of our stuff and now we sue you. Ok, then it became like tuning cars and a big part of moddinghistory will get erased cause of greed for money and power. No silent accept like it was till now. And in 10 years some will make positive publicity again if they say: Look we are so nice, that we allow people to make costum stuff, arent we nice? and the players will scream: YES we buy everything from you cause you are so nice.

What is it with this "greed, money and power" thing you seem to be going on about. The companies are well within their rights to protect their IP, Id be suing you left right and centre if i was a dev, not for the money, but to make a point, it is WRONG, its not yours to convert even if you have the game to be honest. If you read the EULA it will state that content remains the property of the software developer.

You can bang on all you want trying to justify it with your changing alloys on your car analogy, but at the end of the day you are a committing a crime, a crime that if the companies wanted to could land you in jail even.

The converted stuff is all 90% crap anyhow as its just chucked in to the sim with no thought about physics etc.

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

Are you being ignorant on purpose?
The term "piracy" covers content, music, movies, pictures as well as source code etc.
Content from another game is being distributed, which according to the license of the original game is illegal.
I have said nothing at all about putting stuff into games, like it's been possible for years with rFactor, Race07 and many more. I don't think there is anything in the license for those games, that deems it illegal to put stuff into them (aka. mods), but the content you put into them must come from somewhere and if that particular "somewhere" is another sims copyright protected content, THEN it becomes illegal.

Ignorant on purpose? hows that? again you either read my full comment or you didnt understand it again cause your answer is the same which i told you in 2 sentences.

If you put/add things to a game, then you change it. rF, AC are the only programmes i know which allows it and even advertising it.
Changing any part of GTR2/GTL for example is forbidden. Says the text when you start the game. I have 50gb mods for both and the only thing what happend is that simbin is running now rrre so they make money of the "brainchild of the modding-community-idea". Even at some servers you cant join without mods. And many mods are taken from rfactor. so is this all illegal too?
Never heard before that it was or is a crime. Either from modders or the users. Just look at the slipperypage....for shift2 you can add cars from forza 3/4 you only need original copy of forza. never saw there a discussion about these mods are legal or illegal..they just here for our pleasure.
And i want to see if anybody cares about legal/illegal anymore when the first nordschleife mod is coming out for ac. Till September/Oktober next year its a long time Thats my statement as player. What "warfare" goes on under the modderscene its just bad in my opinion...but everyone wants to prove hes the best. I saw great mods from scratch and great conversations. Whats the difference in terms of law if someone makes a car mod from scratch with the original brandname and settings without asking the carcompany or a conversation from one game to another?

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

What is it with this "greed, money and power" thing you seem to be going on about. The companies are well within their rights to protect their IP, Id be suing you left right and centre if i was a dev, not for the money, but to make a point, it is WRONG, its not yours to convert even if you have the game to be honest. If you read the EULA it will state that content remains the property of the software developer.

You can bang on all you want trying to justify it with your changing alloys on your car analogy, but at the end of the day you are a committing a crime, a crime that if the companies wanted to could land you in jail even.

The converted stuff is all 90% crap anyhow as its just chucked in to the sim with no thought about physics etc.

then 90% of the mods here at rd are illegal too. I bet you will sue me for everything i have cause i dont share your opinion.

 

[Simon Roberts]

Ignorant on purpose? hows that? again you either read my full comment or you didnt understand it again cause your answer is the same which i told you in 2 sentences.

If you put/add things to a game, then you change it. rF, AC are the only programmes i know which allows it and even advertising it.
Changing any part of GTR2/GTL for example is forbidden. Says the text when you start the game. I have 50gb mods for both and the only thing what happend is that simbin is running now rrre so they make money of the "brainchild of the modding-community-idea". Even at some servers you cant join without mods. And many mods are taken from rfactor. so is this all illegal too?
Never heard before that it was or is a crime. Either from modders or the users. Just look at the slipperypage....for shift2 you can add cars from forza 3/4 you only need original copy of forza. never saw there a discussion about these mods are legal or illegal..they just here for our pleasure.
And i want to see if anybody cares about legal/illegal anymore when the first nordschleife mod is coming out for ac. Till September/Oktober next year its a long time Thats my statement as player. What "warfare" goes on under the modderscene its just bad in my opinion...but everyone wants to prove hes the best. I saw great mods from scratch and great conversations. Whats the difference in terms of law if someone makes a car mod from scratch with the original brandname and settings without asking the carcompany or a conversation from one game to another?

You really dont understand that the IP is the property of the original creator. This if it is taken from Forza or whatever, no matter if you have the disc or not, it is breaking the law.

If some one makes an Original mod, then he has created it and can do with it as they please! If they try to sell this as say a BMW M3 mod then im sure BMW will be all over them for not licensing the BMW name (IP) from them.

If some one converts a BMW M3 from Forza, then Turn 10 can jump all over the person who converted as they have PAID BMW for it to be in Forza, so you are again stealing from Turn10.

 

[Simon Roberts]

then 90% of the mods here at rd are illegal too. I bet you will sue me for everything i have cause i dont share your opinion.

No, you are entitled to your opinion, its wrong and that of a pirate, but you are entitled to it.

EDIT - If mods here do contain "converted" models then im sure they will be removed from the downloads section yes.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

*sigh*

If mods here do contain "converted" models then im sure they will be removed from the downloads section yes.

Absolutely, and always have been as far as we have been made aware

 

[Simon Roberts]

*sigh*


Absolutely, and always have been as far as we have been made aware

I think DrSmile has some form of psychic insight then, apparently 90% of mods hear are illegal conversions....

 

[Forum Spy]

then 90% of the mods here at rd are illegal too

I checked with KITT but nothing wrong found

 

[Simon Roberts]

I checked with KITT but nothing found

Im confused!

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

No, you are entitled to your opinion, its wrong and that of a pirate, but you are entitled to it.

EDIT - If mods here do contain "converted" models then im sure they will be removed from the downloads section yes.

but the eula of most games in the downloadsection here says also that changing them is illegal also. But when i own a game then its my property so i can also do with them what i like so its not "that" illegal.
And converting a track from rbr to ac is for me like a remix of a song to make it better. If you dont charge money for it without permission of the originaly composer and/or dont use it for commerical use at all/or even better pronouncing it as your own brainchild instead of making clear that its only a remix from artist-xyz there should be no problem.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@DrSmile, now three people have explained to you that you do not own a game / software. Still you keep refering to it as your property which it isn't, never was, never will be.

You just don't want to see it.

 

[MRX]

If some one converts a BMW M3 from Forza, then Turn 10 can jump all over the person who converted as they have PAID BMW for it to be in Forza, so you are again stealing from Turn10.

Errr except they dont? i have not seen Turn10 doing such action. And boy, Forza ripped content is probably the most popular one on the internet. For racing games obviously.

 

[Simon Roberts]

Errr except they dont? i have not seen Turn10 doing such action. And boy, Forza ripped content is probably the most popular one on the internet. For racing games obviously.

Its not a matter of they DONT, They could do if they wished too. It still doesnt make it right does it?

Please re read my post, i never said HAVE, I said they CAN.

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

@DrSmile, now three people have explained to you that you do not own a game / software. Still you keep refering to it as your property which it isn't, never was, never will be.

You just don't want to see it.

but the eula of most games in the downloadsection here says also that changing them is illegal also. But when i own a game then its my property so i can also do with them what i like so its not "that" illegal.
And converting a track from rbr to ac is for me like a remix of a song to make it better. If you dont charge money for it without permission of the originaly composer and/or dont use it for commerical use at all/or even better pronouncing it as your brainchild instead of making clear that its only a remix from artist-xyz there should be no problem.

 

[Simon Roberts]

but the eula of most games in the downloadsection here says also that changing them is illegal also. But when i own a game then its my property so i can also do with them what i like so its not "that" illegal.
And converting a track from rbr to ac is for me like a remix of a song to make it better. If you dont charge money for it without permission of the originaly composer and/or dont use it for commerical use at all/or even better pronouncing it as your brainchild instead of making clear that its only a remix from artist-xyz there should be no problem.

I fully understand what you are saying, but its still not your property to do with as you wish.

 

[MRX]

Its not a matter of they DONT, They could do if they wished too. It still doesnt make it right does it?

Please re read my post, i never said HAVE, I said they CAN.

Yes but still i havent heard Turn10 take such action. So i guess they dont care. After all Forza is not the property of Turn10. A modelling guy cannot come in and say : freeze! this is my model! gimme my sales share evil Microsoft!

it's property of Microsoft. The modellers got the paycheck to model the cars,tracks etc for MS. So conclusion is if mighty Microsoft has not taken action against websites hosting ripped forza content, then who will bother taking such action? i mean Forza titles are some serious titles. Yet its models have been ripped and used in other games. And Microsoft simply didnt give a damn as it looks like. This is my opinion.

but the eula of most games in the downloadsection here says also that changing them is illegal also.

Im a World of Tanks player and it's EULA says the same. But it's only there just in case. The Wargaming devs (aprox 1000 people all over the world) fully support modding of their game, including ripped stuff (movies voice overs, other games tanks models, characters 3d models etc.) They even allow people to use their tank models freely, without permission in Garry's mod. They dont care. It's modding community is HUGE.

 

[Simon Roberts]

Yes but still i havent heard Turn10 take such action. So i guess they dont care. After all Forza is not the property of Turn10. A modelling guy cannot come in and say : freeze! this is my model! gimme my sales share evil Microsoft!

it's property of Microsoft. The modellers got the paycheck to model the cars,tracks etc for MS. So conclusion is if mighty Microsoft has not taken action against websites hosting ripped forza content, then who will bother taking such action? i mean Forza titles are some serious titles. Yet its models have been ripped and used in other games. And Microsoft simply didnt give a damn as it looks like. This is my opinion.

OK MS then lol!

But my point is that they can if they want to, and they would then have the might and lawyers to do pretty much all they want against individuals and websites (like RD if anything ever slipped by) and you nor i could do anything to stop them, we certainly can't afford to defend ourselves against them, so why put yourself in a situation like that?

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

@DrSmile, now three people have explained to you that you do not own a game / software. Still you keep refering to it as your property which it isn't, never was, never will be.

You just don't want to see it.

When? Where? all i saw is that you and your buddy simon making bad jokes about me when i reply to a statement of yours or your buddy....and telling me all the time that its illegal to convert things from a game to another game.

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

we certainly can't afford to defend ourselves against them, so why put yourself in a situation like that?

I wouldn't...That's why I only steal content from 10 year old "deadware"

I had to, I'll go back to my hole now......