GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Celestiale]

This sim owns at least 50 gigs of hard drive space, why because after I play everything else that I own, I have to come back to it, because it is the only one that offers all the things I need to feel like I am actively competing and not get bored, this is the stuff,that I grade all others by, I have owned it since it first came out, it and rf1 are the games I spend most of my time on, I love assetto corsa for where it is now, but I get bored with it real quick, Pcars, I can only look at the prettiness for a few minutes, and put it down, for those only looking for good looking sims, good luck to you, I like things with substance like my race sims and beautiful thick women!!!!!

I am currently having loads of fun in my Pcars career, driving GT3 at the moment.
Physics are acceptable and definitely not worse then some 15 year old sims..FFB is actually quite good with the JC Spadon settings, almost on par with Assetto Corsa, definitely better then rF1. AI in this class is superb, no other sims out there for me where it's that much fun to battle with them, and that's the main thing for me when it comes to replayability in single player...and all the other so called "lost" virtues from sim racing, like changable weather conditions, hugely affecting your and the AIs driving, day/night cycles, a real sky with moving clouds, and you being able to drive out of them (in contrary to the static sky in all other sims). A career progression from karts to Formula1/LMP1...and on top of all superb graphics.
It may not be on a par with the current physics reference sims like Assetto Corsa or Automobilista, but the complete package in a single player career makes up for it.
I may not be as hostile towards it and biased against it like a lot of other sim racers, since i never invested in it, never was involved in it (forums, devs etc), and bought it on a discount 1 year after release when most of the bugs were worked out. But just judging the current state, it's a very enjoyable Sim when doing single player career mode.
So please forgive me, but i am positive that Pcars 2 can achieve something similar like GTR2 back then, if they manage to get the physics better, and add more "sim features" like the sims back in the day...

 

[Will Mazeo]

I blame the sim racing community for evolving in the opposite direction too: we went from pure "simracers" to shills,video makers (with deplorable driving most of the time), forum campers and investors (wtf?!). The average simracer from 2006 lapped 1 sec off the pace at least, and knew the setup basics and more or less how a car should drive/feel.

I say it again! affording every sim in the market doesn't mean that you should buy them all, when you buy an unfinished product, you are encouraging mediocrity and killing proper products, because this early access groove is contagious.

Early access polluted gaming in general, half arsed stuff is sold everywhere and the circus is not anymore about the game itself but the bugfixing/feature implementation surrounding it. It's like cancer treatment ... and it's gonna get worse if we don't sensitize the average joe.

What he said. People nowadays are sending a message to devs that they just want pretty graphics and mainstream cars licensed, the rest (physics included, I mean.. how you release what you call a sim without base stuff like brake temperature and tire pressure?) they ignore. Sure graphic is nice and important too, but when a dev release something that is just a downgrade from their past work people should not buy it.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

what i still don't understand, r3e is an overhaul of the old gtr2-engine (if i am not mistaken), but is completly missing night-settings ? how can it get worse, the gtr2-engine even had 3(!) directX version,7/8/9... just had a few night-races@gtr2, doesn't really look all this bad.

i believe i saw also footwork of the driver in cockpit, something completely missing in r3e aswell.

 

[mister dog]

We're really not that bad off. Today's sim racing games might be a bit dumbed down compared to the likes of GTR2 when it comes down to features, but like others have said already we've made massive strides in other parts like physics and FFB which is in a way the essence of a driving simulator.

And if you compare it to the overall gaming industry as illustrated in this video:

We're actually quite lucky

 

[Blimey]

I blame the sim racing community for evolving in the opposite direction too: we went from pure "simracers" to shills,video makers (with deplorable driving most of the time), forum campers and investors (wtf?!). The average simracer from 2006 lapped 1 sec off the pace at least, and knew the setup basics and more or less how a car should drive/feel.

I say it again! affording every sim in the market doesn't mean that you should buy them all, when you buy an unfinished product, you are encouraging mediocrity and killing proper products, because this early access groove is contagious.

Early access polluted gaming in general, half arsed stuff is sold everywhere and the circus is not anymore about the game itself but the bugfixing/feature implementation surrounding it. It's like cancer treatment ... and it's gonna get worse if we don't sensitize the average joe.

watch out, the shills are coming.

 

[David Wright]

what i still don't understand, r3e is an overhaul of the old gtr2-engine (if i am not mistaken), but is completly missing night-settings ? how can it get worse, the gtr2-engine even had 3(!) directX version,7/8/9... just had a few night-races@gtr2, doesn't really look all this bad.

i believe i saw also footwork of the driver in cockpit, something completely missing in r3e aswell.

I don't think R3E is an overhaul of the GTR2 engine. The physics is a development of GTR2s but I think the graphics, sound, netcode, AI and UI are all new. What is puzzling is why they didn't continue with ISIMotor2 and the new graphics engine until the other elements were finished, rather than initially releasing a sim with no AI, no netcode and many other features missing.

 

[Rodent]

We're really not that bad off. Today's sim racing games might be a bit dumbed down compared to the likes of GTR2 when it comes down to features, but like others have said already we've made massive strides in other parts like physics and FFB which is in a way the essence of a driving simulator.

And if you compare it to the overall gaming industry as illustrated in this video:

We're actually quite lucky

Same guy slammed AC pretty hard for lacking features I seem to recall. And fairs fair, AC was pretty damned bare bones at 1.0.

 

[Mitja Bonca]

I still have an original copy of it on dvd - actually that`s the only game on dvd which is in my desk - lol Didn`t realize up to know, when I was reading this great article.

Proof:

 

[mister dog]

Same guy slammed AC pretty hard for lacking features I seem to recall. And fairs fair, AC was pretty damned bare bones at 1.0.

Yes indeed but he praised the physics and gave it the thumbs up :

Spoiler

 

[GTSpeedster]

what i still don't understand, r3e is an overhaul of the old gtr2-engine (if i am not mistaken), but is completly missing night-settings ? how can it get worse, the gtr2-engine even had 3(!) directX version,7/8/9... just had a few night-races@gtr2, doesn't really look all this bad.

i believe i saw also footwork of the driver in cockpit, something completely missing in r3e aswell.

I don't think R3E is an overhaul of the GTR2 engine. The physics is a development of GTR2s but I think the graphics, sound, netcode, AI and UI are all new. What is puzzling is why they didn't continue with ISIMotor2 and the new graphics engine until the other elements were finished, rather than initially releasing a sim with no AI, no netcode and many other features missing.

R3E has no relation at all to GTR2.

In fact, SimBin never wrote a single line of code for GTR2.

The SimBin name on GTR2 is merely contractual for marketing and naming purposes. The game was developed entirely by another unrelated studio.

It's no secret but apparently not well known.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

I gave away my games but I did get a Steam copy. Still have the GPL and GT Legends box! My GTR2 box was the cool fold-out cover but the store only had the 3-CDs version, not the DVD.

By the way, over at NoGrip two users put a lot of effort into creating huge updates and packing them together with an easy install system. I think it may be too big for RD downloads so it won't be here.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

R3E has no relation at all to GTR2.

In fact, SimBin never wrote a single line of code for GTR2.

The SimBin name on GTR2 is merely contractual for marketing and naming purposes. The game was developed entirely by another unrelated studio.

It's no secret but apparently not well known.

It's interesting how both Blimey and Simbin dropped the ball on the following releases.

Edit: I've written far too much in this topic. Enough has been said *exits stage left*

 

[Peter Munkholm]

NOTHING is just the same feeling of seriously being in a race. No matter if it was single player og multiplayer. The game just had a way of making it feel serious! The immersion was incredible! Out of this world. I can not imagine what is would be like if this game was updated with modern graphics, sound and then player in VR!

 

[BattleOvce]

Why are modern sims still not as good as GTR2 ? Because these young wannabe developers are lazy losers .... just kidding .. calm down

 

[BattleOvce]

NOTHING is just the same feeling of seriously being in a race. No matter if it was single player og multiplayer. The game just had a way of making it feel serious! The immersion was incredible! Out of this world. I can not imagine what is would be like if this game was updated with modern graphics, sound and then player in VR!

ye you didnt forget to mention VR, without VR all game sucks suddenly How many people can afford VR ?
NOT attacking you, but I am getting sick of VR DUDES .. NOT telling its you.

 

[Will Mazeo]

I gave away my games but I did get a Steam copy. Still have the GPL and GT Legends box! My GTR2 box was the cool fold-out cover but the store only had the 3-CDs version, not the DVD.

By the way, over at NoGrip two users put a lot of effort into creating huge updates and packing them together with an easy install system. I think it may be too big for RD downloads so it won't be here.

There are some guys in EEC making a 10th anniversary celebration pack for GTR2, they are including all cars from 2000 to 2009 FIA GT championships, reworking sounds and tracks, etc. It started a year ago

 

[Blimey]

Why are modern sims still not as good as GTR2 ? Because these young wannabe developers are lazy losers .... just kidding .. calm down

they're not young, but the rest of it is true, don't be afraid of telling the truth.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@Paul Jeffrey thank you for (again) a very interesting article on a very pertinent subject.
I also totally enjoyed (most) of the thread.
I think the driving in GTR2 really shows its age, but still totally agree with the opening news article of this thread, why do we have to "suffer" so many missing features in our present favorite SIM (whaterever it is), features all present in a more the 10 years old SIM. We are all missing them, when they should be standard everywhere.
Their is no if and but, this is just plain wrong.

 

[James Cook]

These days, racing SIM developers spend too much time obsessing over the things that don't necessarily guarantee a great racing experience. Reiterating on tyre models over and over again or the eternal science project that is rFactor 2 are good examples of this.

GTR2 was a thoroughly good package, first-and-foremost. A more complete racing experience than anything we've seen since.

It's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

 

[xnorb]

Guess i'm gonna install it again

But simracing is by far not the only genre that devolved. FPS lack lots of features that were standard in 2000 and many genres of the 90s basically don't exist anymore.

But 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago games weren't just played for a month and then thrown away or exchanged for another - you bought it and played it for months/years. And this also reflects in the products we buy these days: short time entertainment. Neither the big masses of consumers nor developers are intrrested in long term experiences.