AC GT3 @ Nordschleife - Sunday 3rd December 2023

Alfred Wayne · Dec 3, 2023

Thats a shame Johnny, I was waiting for your pit stop to see what would happen next, but I saw the time ticking down before you got to the pit

Good racing before that

Hank I had figured you changed tires by where you came out in the pits. I thought my tires could last, but after my first spin where you caught me, they never felt the same Was a lot of fun though to see the fight between two strategies come down the last lap

Exciting first lap Pat as well. Not often you get to run the ring that close to another driver

Really fun to finally put some time in these cars around here. The braking and aero in the corners is a great drive

Thanks for putting it all together brian, see you all next week.

Kek700 · Dec 3, 2023

Bleeding BOP, stuck with rear wing at 6, 9% loss of power, gearing stuck, all I then needed was an elephant sitting on the bonnet of the car to make it a full house.
Work my soaks off to gain 5/10th and lose that on every straight. Then to add insult to injury there is no point in overtaking, every man and his dog just sails past on the next long straight.
Apart from that, I did enjoy my race with Brian and Rob, still do not understand that last corner overtake, it was not on 100 meters before the corner. Basically from that point on my race was lost. But “hey ho” that’s motor racing.

just looked at the replay, bleeding lost 1 second on the long straight , even with a tow.
Felt hopeless from the go, and it proved to be the case.

Interslice · Dec 3, 2023

Nice spinning around the green hell with you all!
Sorry to @robthesquare for the tap at the start. I shouldn't have been following you so close there, I couldn't see what was happening ahead. Going the outside of T1 is a bad plan i know now.
Turned into some nice battles anyway with yourself and Ernie anyway.

Congrats to Dmitry and the podium. Great pace as usual!

robthesquare · Dec 3, 2023

Ernie - sorry about hitting you on the final set of corners. I in the process of completing a pass on Brian and our braking points didn't line up. My fault totally.

For some reason my microphone on my headset wasn't working. I was trying to apologize, but no one could hear me. I tried after the race to correct it, but you guys still couldn't hear me. Oh well - that's a future Rob problem.

That all being said, it was really great racing. A very enjoyable race. I wanted to race the 911, but I just couldn't get it stable enough to feel confident on race distance. On raw pace, I feel much, much quicker in the 911, but the Merc is a much more stable/forgiving platform. Thanks to all for a great race, and thank you Brian for organizing.

demetri · Dec 3, 2023

Kek700 said:
Bleeding BOP, stuck with rear wing at 6, 9% loss of power, gearing stuck, all I then needed was an elephant sitting on the bonnet of the car to make it a full house.
Work my soaks off to gain 5/10th and lose that on every straight. Then to add insult to injury there is no point in overtaking, every man and his dog just sails past on the next long straight.
Apart from that, I did enjoy my race with Brian and Rob, still do not understand that last corner overtake, it was not on 100 meters before the corner. Basically from that point on my race was lost. But “hey ho” that’s motor racing.

just looked at the replay, bleeding lost 1 second on the long straight , even with a tow.
Felt hopeless from the go, and it proved to be the case.

I didn't see any tangible difference in the top speed with the wing at 6 vs 7 and 7 definitely felt much more planted, especially when the tires had 7+ long laps on them. If this car didn't have any bop it would've been absolutely OP on this track as it seems to be glued to the tarmac the way old 650s was. And 9% restrictor doesn't translate into 9% power loss, it's much less than that, otherwise 100% restrictor would be zero bhp and that's simply not the case.

davejevons · Dec 4, 2023

Yeah, that was good. I figured with 20mins and an 8.something lap time that there was a high chance of people not setting a time so I focused on just getting a clean lap in qualifying.

In the race I had a reltively good start and benefitted from the T1 tangle. However, I then made too many mistakes and gradually fell back from the majority of the pack.

After a long period on my own Bouke suddenly appeared but as soon as we started racing each other I had a spectacular misjudgement and entered the wrong pits. I found myself behind a piece of armco with a marshall staring blankly at me and had to sheepishly reverse out!

Boukâh said:
Met David a few times along the way, shame we weren't closer, would've been fun to get some more racing action.

Yes, it was unfortunate as we had similar pace. Several times we started to get close but everytime I pushed to catch up I ended up over-driving the Porsche and putting it in the barrier. Maybe it's time to move on from the tricky to balance 992 (or just stop making dumb mistakes!)

My mistakes aside, it was a really good combo of cars and track which took a lot of concentration to get right. Thanks for organising it Brian!

Kek700 · Dec 4, 2023

I agree up to a point, but you have to remember you have an approximate 10 second a lap advantage over me and most others, so you will make a lot of time up on the twisty bits. So as long as you are at the front, no ones straight line performance is going to make much difference.

These factors only really notice on long straights, I was 16kph deficit on the long straights.
Enough to make anyone easily over take on a system that is supposed to make the cars reasonably equal.
These races are for everyone, these bop’s are not conducive to that end, as most of us are not capable of extracting the most from each type of car, but top speed is there for anyone.
6kph comes from the 9% 4kph comes from the gearing, making the car reasonable on the long straights.
The wing is stuck at 6 minimum so that accounts for 8kph I can live with that.
This is not group C, this is about making the cars equal.
They should all be booped the same, apart from the 911 and possibly the Lamborghini.

johnny85ac · Dec 4, 2023

Alfred Wayne said:
Thats a shame Johnny, I was waiting for your pit stop to see what would happen next, but I saw the time ticking down before you got to the pit Good racing before that

Hank I had figured you changed tires by where you came out in the pits. I thought my tires could last, but after my first spin where you caught me, they never felt the same Was a lot of fun though to see the fight between two strategies come down the last lap

Exciting first lap Pat as well. Not often you get to run the ring that close to another driver

Really fun to finally put some time in these cars around here. The braking and aero in the corners is a great drive

Thanks for putting it all together brian, see you all next week.

Yeah I was quite proud of myself that I could keep the distance to you for the first 2-3 laps, but then I lost a bit concentration and had some little (and one bigger) mistake. You would have cought me for sure after my pit stop. I tried to extend my stint as long as possible as there was nobody around. your consistency was awesome as I saw in the results. Well done!

demetri · Dec 4, 2023

Kek700 said:
I agree up to a point, but you have to remember you have an approximate 10 second a lap advantage over me and most others, so you will make a lot of time up on the twisty bits. So as long as you are at the front, no ones straight line performance is going to make much difference.

These factors only really notice on long straights, I was 16kph deficit on the long straights.
Enough to make anyone easily over take on a system that is supposed to make the cars reasonably equal.
These races are for everyone, these bop’s are not conducive to that end, as most of us are not capable of extracting the most from each type of car, but top speed is there for anyone.
6kph comes from the 9% 4kph comes from the gearing, making the car reasonable on the long straights.
The wing is stuck at 6 minimum so that accounts for 8kph I can live with that.
This is not group C, this is about making the cars equal.
They should all be booped the same, apart from the 911 and possibly the Lamborghini.

Are you sure you were 16 kmh down? I checked live timings on the server before the event that showed all best laps per driver/car combo along with the top speed achieved and even Fulvio in the Merc with the overal fastest lap had his top speed of about 290 while mine was 280 (that is with rear wing 7). In the race, I think I was also getting close to 280 in the downhill section after the Bilstein bridge. And that straight before is long enough to render any differences in your and mine exit speeds from Galgenkopf (I had to look the name up

) irrelevant. So, I'm not sure why you think you had such a massive deficit.

What changes did you make to the default setup? Mine were: tires pressures 1 psi down all around, slightly negative rear toe, rear wing down to 7, and brake balance down to 60. Everything else was stock.

I think the cars are bopped more or less alright within the limitations of the system. If one car has tons of grip that you can't take away from it and you make it so it has the same top speed as the other cars then this car becomes massively OP by the virtue of not having any weak spots. See, the vette has the best grip, good balance throughout the whole race, tire wear that allows you to double-stint on them, and while the brakes are not the best (the porker wins in that category hands down) they are good enough. The only thing this car doesn't have is the top speed. Which gives other cars a fair chance, especially on tracks like this one.

But you have to play to the strongs of your car, if you don't do that then of course you're gonna feel handicapped. I watched a couple of your laps and I can tell you that there're quite a few highspeed corners on this track that this car easily does flatout (Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, Klostertal) and I saw you braking there for some reason. Those fast corners is where every kmh on exit counts as that's the speed deficit you're going to carry for quite some time on the following straights.

Kek700 · Dec 4, 2023

I will revisit this, from what you have said.?? you have to remember the faster you are as a driver the difference get squashed into smaller lumps.
Brian is very slightly faster than me when he is on form. So I took my laps in the GTD and compared them with Brian, you are correct I can with the GTD actually make time on him in the twisty bits. But it is gradual and localised to various section of this track.
I could get 175mph with the GTD at its fastest, and 171mph up the drag, with the Mercedes I can get 176mph up the drag and 186mph fastest.
I was running rear wing 6 front 1 and got the car to try and stall the rear wing to get more top speed, but that was thwarted somewhat by the gearing not allowing me to get max power at max rpm by the end of the straight.
But I visited this in a state of mind that was pissed by the bleeding BOP.
This did not exist in Kunos GT3, I never drove a Kunos Gt3 that was 16kph down on speed, irrespective of car.

Even the GTR did not manage that differential.
You have to remember us norms do not have your level of judgement, it may seem obvious to you and rightly so, just as it seems obvious to me compared to drivers who are slower than me.
The whole skill set between top drivers and us is small, but over a lap can add up into what seems a lot, it is not, but two seconds every 2 minutes is easily accounted for.
The corners you take flat and I don’t hardly surprise me at all, that I am only to aware of.
So when BOP makes sense to you, to slower drivers it becomes of a different proportion.
I have spent more time than I can remember being over taken by fast driver and can see quite easily why I am slower, but I just don’t have the skill set to do anything about it.
I am so against this BOP that is calculated based on “What” exactly, it should be car and driver, but I am against that because the faster driver get penalised for being faster, that does not sit well with me either.
BOP all cars the same, and keep the Porsche and Lamborghini BOP free, there is some sense with that.

Interslice · Dec 5, 2023

They were BOPd for Yokahama, so outside of there, they are what they be

.
Based on feedback I have left it as is for blocks of races instead of adjusting it. You can't have your cake, Ernie!
It will be adjusted for the new year based on the 6 race block with the current BOP.

Interslice · Dec 5, 2023

Also, in hindsight, I was running very(too) low a wing on the porker both here and le mans. So your perception of the straight line speed difference it probably exaggerated. I spun a few times at le mans and maybe a few more than that at nords.

Rob's merc needed a tow the full length of the dotinger, just to get alongside when I hit the limiter top of the hill in 6th.
Luckily I had experienced the situation before with and knew I had to lift to live! @RasmusP

https://imgur.com/ijAYyxb

demetri · Dec 5, 2023

Kek700 said:
I will revisit this, from what you have said.?? you have to remember the faster you are as a driver the difference get squashed into smaller lumps.
Brian is very slightly faster than me when he is on form. So I took my laps in the GTD and compared them with Brian, you are correct I can with the GTD actually make time on him in the twisty bits. But it is gradual and localised to various section of this track.
I could get 175mph with the GTD at its fastest, and 171mph up the drag, with the Mercedes I can get 176mph up the drag and 186mph fastest.
I was running rear wing 6 front 1 and got the car to try and stall the rear wing to get more top speed, but that was thwarted somewhat by the gearing not allowing me to get max power at max rpm by the end of the straight.
But I visited this in a state of mind that was pissed by the bleeding BOP.
This did not exist in Kunos GT3, I never drove a Kunos Gt3 that was 16kph down on speed, irrespective of car. Even the GTR did not manage that differential.
You have to remember us norms do not have your level of judgement, it may seem obvious to you and rightly so, just as it seems obvious to me compared to drivers who are slower than me.
The whole skill set between top drivers and us is small, but over a lap can add up into what seems a lot, it is not, but two seconds every 2 minutes is easily accounted for.
The corners you take flat and I don’t hardly surprise me at all, that I am only to aware of.
So when BOP makes sense to you, to slower drivers it becomes of a different proportion.
I have spent more time than I can remember being over taken by fast driver and can see quite easily why I am slower, but I just don’t have the skill set to do anything about it.
I am so against this BOP that is calculated based on “What” exactly, it should be car and driver, but I am against that because the faster driver get penalised for being faster, that does not sit well with me either.
BOP all cars the same, and keep the Porsche and Lamborghini BOP free, there is some sense with that.

Well, the 650s was pretty similar in regards to the top speed on the Nords compared to the Audi, Lambo, or AMG. Those 3 could get up to 300 km/h while the Macca would struggle to reach 290 even with the draft helping it. This made it a sitting duck at the end of the lap and there was nothing even Chris could do about it. It was what it was.
I think I already said it, but I'm going to say it again. The Vette is the new Macca, only it's not looking to kill you with a snap oversteer coming seeminly out of nowhere. If you don't like being down on top speed, just pick another car. But those other cars seem to need a lot of setup work (or maybe their default setups don't suit my driving). They don't want to rotate in the corner and just plunge outside with tons of understeer and when I tried to fix that with some basic changes like adjusting ARB and wings they became too nervous and hard to drive on a tricky track like this one. They all have their engines in a wrong place in the car by the way, so probably need a slightly different technique to make them turn properly.

Interslice · Dec 5, 2023

AC - GT3 @ Portimao(2023)- Sunday 10th December 2023

Welcome to the RD Assetto Corsa Racing Club. On Sunday 10th December we are at the Algarve International Circuit, Portimao, for some GT3 action!! Join us! This is the place to be for relaxed, friendly racing and our events are open to everybody from rookies to the seasoned pros. You will...

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Next weeks event is up! Hope you can all make it

It's a new Portimao track.