AC GT3 @ Brands Hatch - Sunday 11th April 2021

[boomRoasted]

@Chris Down

Hope you feel better soon. Thanks for all the hard work and for helping create a very welcoming place for us beginners. The bump-drafts and "Thanks, mate" as you lap us plebs will be missed for the time being.

 

[random2k4]

There was no "pile of cars". Everyone from top-4 navigated the corner without any contacts or spins, maybe we went slightly slower than usual, but that's to be expected in the first actual turn of the race. You just have to anticipate earlier braking in the first turn of the race, especially if you're on the inside and there're multiple cars ahead. If you brake at your usual spot you're asking for trouble. I think you had the pace for a podium finish in this race if not for that mistake

3+ cars is a pile for me
And I know it was my mistake, I tried to avoid rear ending the one in front by steering to the left. Unfortunately others behind me were even faster then me and so I got a hit to the side.
I knew my pace was there, and that is the frustrating part. But the next race is a new chance.

 

[jackdyson31]

Guys, just let the faster drivers through these races hold no meaning other than your personal goals. I only bring this up because I witnessed a person (blue flag) race the P8 finisher for an entire lap when there were many instances where it would have been quite easy to let them by

Just as a general point, I think that is very wrong - I lost two positions because of blue flags and I work just as hard for my position as anyone else does in the race.

From the point of view of the driver at the back of the field, so many blue flags appear incessantly and without any respect for where or who the slower driver might be fighting. Nothing we can do about that but get faster.

For the most part everything was excellent - but some fast drivers just nose up right behind and "indimidate" the driver ahead to give way as if they were racing him for position. Some of us back there have genuine pace believe it or not. The result is that they slower guy might make a mistake and bin it.

So just a kind ask to certain faster drivers, we are fighting all the way down the field and please give us some room as well- we are racing too!

 

[random2k4]

Just as a general point, I think that is very wrong - I lost two positions because of blue flags and I work just as hard for my position as anyone else does in the race.

From the point of view of the driver at the back of the field, so many blue flags appear incessantly and without any respect for where or who the slower driver might be fighting. Nothing we can do about that but get faster.

For the most part everything was excellent - but some fast drivers just nose up right behind and "indimidate" the driver ahead to give way as if they were racing him for position. Some of us back there have genuine pace believe it or not. The result is that they slower guy might make a mistake and bin it.

So just a kind ask to certain faster drivers, we are fighting all the way down the field and please give us some room as well- we are racing too!

Sorry Jack, but Han and I were battling and you blocked us over 1 1/2 laps with plenty of room to let us pass on a straight. Not only Han lost time to me, but we both lost time to the cars in front.

At multiple points we were both closer than 1 sec to you. Han sometimes just 0.3 secs.
Also when we finally got by in a corner you even tried to fight for the apex. I dont know why. You were way behind anyone else and no one was close to you. Such a behavior, not lifting the throttle on the straight, blocking the breaking points etc. is just a recipe for disaster. Specially on a tight and flowing track as Brands Hatch. There are at least 2 straight for an easy overtake on this track to do it safely.

Much time can be gained in the corners on this track, less so on the straights.
By not letting the faster cars by on a straight, you just block the corners resulting in a poor exit and not catching up properly on a straight. Not want to point fingers here, just something to think about and maybe rethink someones behavior.
I get the point when you are also in a battle for position with someone else it can be quite difficult at times.

 

[jackdyson31]

Sorry Jack, but Han and I were battling and you blocked us over 1 1/2 laps with plenty of room to let us pass on a straight. Not only Han lost time to me, but we both lost time to the cars in front.

At multiple points we were both closer than 1 sec to you. Han sometimes just 0.3 secs.
Also when we finally got by in a corner you even tried to fight for the apex. I dont know why. You were way behind anyone else and no one was close to you. Such a behavior, not lifting the throttle on the straight, blocking the breaking points etc. is just a recipe for disaster. Specially on a tight and flowing track as Brands Hatch. There are at least 2 straight for an easy overtake on this track to do it safely.

Much time can be gained in the corners on this track, less so on the straights.
By not letting the faster cars by on a straight, you just block the corners resulting in a poor exit and not catching up properly on a straight. Not want to point fingers here, just something to think about and maybe rethink someones behavior.
I get the point when you are also in a battle for position with someone else it can be quite difficult at times.

I wasn't getting a blue flag all the time unfortunately as far as I can recall and certainly had no time to check anything in my mirrors so at times cars behind me were looking adversarial when they were might have been blue flags. So many people went off from the front as well - I had no idea what was what at times with all my problems too.

When I was getting a blue flag the cars that came past were not front runners so it was confusing at certain points.

However I was also trying to drive as fast as I could to catch people up front because I realised in clear air I could catch back up. The sim had wiped my pitstop data and I had had a bad one so I wanted to use everything I had to maximise my results. Therefore, in general I let people by where I thought it prudent and beneficial to me as well. As you say lifting on the straights wrecks my strategy as well so I was trying to do everything at once - I did move over to the grass many times when I was certain of a blue flag.

I would not have blocked anyone intentionally certainly not blue flag cases in the braking zones, sorry if I did manage to cause issues for you and Han.

PS I have been punted off and my races ruined so many times I have lost count and I have never made a point except to say when I was disconnected. While I appreciate your great urgency to fly up the field, please also appreciate that I also commit myself to the training necessary to race here and I try to do so as unobtrusively as possible. That attitude has led to a lot of race incidents where I never finished (this is the first race since Austria). When the shoe is on the other foot however I find attitudes are not so generous.

 

[boomRoasted]

I lost two positions because of blue flags and I work just as hard for my position as anyone else does in the race.

As did I. Having to let Ernie through and with Linus only 2 sec back from him there was little I could do and lost my position the next lap. I understand it's frustrating and, yeah, we (the lower end of the grid) do work just as hard to have a decent quali and a solid, fun race.

without any respect for where or who the slower driver might be fighting.

This is also a point of frustration but if I was a faster driver I wouldn't care about a slower car's battle when I am fighting to keep my own position. However, from my personal perspective if two faster cars are battling (P6 & P7 let's say) and P6 is closer and can get by me on the straight I'll lift, however, if the P7 driver can not make the overtake I retake the line and take the next corner as I normally would. If the P7 driver is upset, sorry mate, I'll let ya by when it is next safe to do so.

but some fast drivers just nose up right behind and "indimidate" the driver ahead to give way as if they were racing him for position

Yep and this is a poor attitude to have in a race such as these Sunday club races. What I said about these races being only for personal goals is true for the entire field. I share your feelings on this point and it can really take the fun out of it and like you said cause the slower driver to bin it and ruin their race.

 

[jackdyson31]

As did I. Having to let Ernie through and with Linus only 2 sec back from him there was little I could do and lost my position the next lap. I understand it's frustrating and, yeah, we (the lower end of the grid) do work just as hard to have a decent quali and a solid, fun race.


This is also a point of frustration but if I was a faster driver I wouldn't care about a slower car's battle when I am fighting to keep my own position. However, from my personal perspective if two faster cars are battling (P6 & P7 let's say) and P6 is closer and can get by me on the straight I'll lift, however, if the P7 driver can not make the overtake I retake the line and take the next corner as I normally would. If the P7 driver is upset, sorry mate, I'll let ya by when it is next safe to do so.


Yep and this is a poor attitude to have in a race such as these Sunday club races. What I said about these races being only for personal goals is true for the entire field. I share your feelings on this point and it can really take the fun out of it and like you said cause the slower driver to bin it and ruin their race.

I completely agree with everything you said - I was wrecked at the end of that race and we all make mistakes, in the past I got angry about certain things, but I always felt these are racing incidents and I was advised to drive faster which I am getting to.

Rasmus came past me - no problems, gave me room, he went past and I was hanging on. Same with lots of others. Some though ...

I will not be intimidated off the track politically or physically.

 

[random2k4]

I wasn't getting a blue flag all the time unfortunately as far as I can recall and certainly had no time to check anything in my mirrors so at times cars behind me were looking adversarial when they were might have been blue flags. So many people went off from the front as well - I had no idea what was what at times with all my problems too.

When I was getting a blue flag the cars that came past were not front runners so it was confusing at certain points.

However I was also trying to drive as fast as I could to catch people up front because I realised in clear air I could catch back up. The sim had wiped my pitstop data and I had had a bad one so I wanted to use everything I had to maximise my results. Therefore, in general I let people by where I thought it prudent and beneficial to me as well. As you say lifting on the straights wrecks my strategy as well so I was trying to do everything at once - I did move over to the grass many times when I was certain of a blue flag.

I would not have blocked anyone intentionally certainly not blue flag cases in the braking zones, sorry if I did manage to cause issues for you and Han.

PS I have been punted off and my races ruined so many times I have lost count and I have never made a point except to say when I was disconnected. While I appreciate your great urgency to fly up the field, please also appreciate that I also commit myself to the training necessary to race here and I try to do so as unobtrusively as possible. That attitude has led to a lot of race incidents where I never finished (this is the first race since Austria). When the shoe is on the other foot however I find attitudes are not so generous.

As someone that was a back marker and dead last not a long time ago I can feel you, really. I also had my difficulties with faster drivers, specially in Qualifying when you are on a fast lap (for you) but for the guy behind you are just slow.

I dont know what apps you use to observe traffic and cars around you. My self, I have Car radar, virtual mirror, global standings, real time app and Crew Chief. I know its a lot at once and it took some time to get used to it, but now I have a great overview about all the cars around me.

I dont want to point my fingers at you and say "bla bla this you could have done better", cause I know specially Brands Hatch is a stressful track and if you want to gain some speed and time yeah, clean air is the best and it takes so much focus to be fast here. So blue flags can be missed some times.

I also started trying to look more ahead and see when I can pass a blue flagged car at best. Sometimes I adjust speed a little if the situation allows for it. Also, I know some people maybe dont like it, but when I realize I am faster at a corner exit then a blue flagged car, I always flash my light to signal that there is a faster car coming. I dont to it to force my way through or to get the right of way, just as an extra optical hint that there is a car behind someone, that possibly got missed.

I know all of us doing our best to ensure great racing no matter the position and skill level. I just like to say what I felt during the race to let others know that this is something people can see and maybe learn from.

By getting your perspective, I can now judge my own movements when it comes to overtaking or lapping you in the future, so it helps both of us. Just keep on racing, everything comes with practice. And as I saw today. Good lap times dont help you if you make a mistake first lap, second corner

 

[jackdyson31]

As someone that was a back marker and dead last not a long time ago I can feel you, really

Hiya, thanks a lot for your understanding -

specially in Qualifying when you are on a fast lap (for you) but for the guy behind you are just slow.

yes I left a lot on the table today in qualifying because of indecisiveness and the fact that I got no clear lap and nerves made me go off on some good candidate laps.

I dont know what apps you use to observe traffic and cars around you

Helicorsa - and at times there were 3 or 4 cars on it at once in the braking zone with a blue flag up left. Crew chief doesn't always work right on my sim. Car radar is obtrusive though. I have limited screen space so I minimise the apps except those needed to know who is in the immediate vicinity. Its really confusing to have so much info while running a posse behind lol ...

I know its a lot at once and it took some time to get used to it

Yes it is quite a challenge and this is my first complete race for quite a few weeks so it took a lot physically driving qualifying pace with full fuel - actually I was trying a new setup philosophy which I dialled in over the week and it really was fast - to my surprise. I lost my positions 1 min before the end of the race and was gutted.

Nevertheless I took all the positives out of today - I made progress and I drove fast and SGP didn't throw me off as well as it downloaded the last part of the race replay - which was like amazing as it never happened before.

I dont want to point my fingers at you

No Ireally don't mind owning up and please do call me out - I will try and defend myself and if I am found wanting I shall apologise and learn to improve myself and make a better contribution to all of us. I am glad you answered because this is how we can understand each other and build trust and respect.

takes so much focus to be fast here

My god - you get one braking point slightly wrong and it is 1 second lost. If you turn in at the wrong place - you can't gain a good exit. The hairpin complex is abominable especially the corner after it and the big one after that - Every step has to be perfect, every detail thought of beforehand to get a lap right. Itis my first time at many of these tracks ( all except Monza) and I am sure the same is true for most of us new fellas so finding rhythm and pace is a big challenge in particular. But you know what I was doing it - it was ok. I am just sorry I wasn't perfect.

So blue flags can be missed some times.

Yeah loads of times it is so confusing - you can't trust the guy shadowing the faster front runner. And that makes you worry and makes you indecisive because you are thinking about your race and the frontrunner - then you look up and there is no blue flag there anymore ... so yes it is hard to observe braking points, tyre performance, fuel load induced handling changes, front runners, pit window timing, who is really fighting you, where you are from the guys ahead , and the worry that will you spin off the next corner which gets worse as you get closer to the end ...

I always flash my light to signal that there is a faster car coming. I dont to it to force my way through or to get the right of way, just as an extra optical hint that there is a car behind someone, that possibly got missed.

No I honestly didn't see any lights at all - I wish I had, I can't remember anything except feeling intense pressure to make sure I was doing everything right. I wish I had seen the headlight because I would have been sure its a front runner.

I know all of us doing our best to ensure great racing no matter the position and skill level. I just like to say what I felt during the race to let others know that this is something people can see and maybe learn from.

Yeah sure - I am glad because I also know how you guys are feeling and I need to accomodate that in my thinking more strongly . So this is a good thing in every way.

By getting your perspective, I can now judge my own movements when it comes to overtaking or lapping you in the future, so it helps both of us.

Yeah the same goes for me too - I am really glad that it is out in the open as it were.

Just keep on racing, everything comes with practice

Thank you so much for your kind wishes - I fully intend to do so but one learns to be better at every stepof the way and I will work harder from now on to improve on these points

 

[RobertR1]

Real-time is ideal for these single class races. You’ll know the status of cars around you and the rate at which they’re catching you. When you know how quickly they’re coming up, you can start thinking about where to let them by and minimize time loss for all sides.

Ultimately, your first priority in being lapped is to ensure you don’t hold up the faster car. To allow the lapping car to get by quickly and safely.

 

[Chris Down]

One thing that might help you is the built in "Realtime" app. It shows a few positions in front and a few positions behind, and during the race if one is labelled in green and the seconds delta on the right is approaching zero and is below your name, you know that one of cars behind you is lapping you. It's even usually accurate enough to allow you to know which out of (say) a group of three behind it is based on distance.

Enjoy this professionally graphic designed infographic:

Edit: jinx

 

[demetri]

Well, this one went much better than I expected. Last time I had a race at Brands Hatch was more than three years ago and it was in a different car (488), so I didn't have a setup and had to spend quite a bit of time working on it. I expected softs to be a no-go as there's a lot of fast corners and not enough straights to cool the tires down, but my major issue was figuring out the gearing due to somewhat limited powerband of the Audi. I could not come up with the ideal set, so I went ahead with the least bad one, where I would hit the limiter in 4th just before Druids, but at least all other corners were fine (setup attached to this post).

Running the quali on mediums, I could not hope for the pole, but I thought setting a lap half a second behind @pattikins would give me P2 on the start. Then @hape somehow managed to post a lap a tenth faster in the last minutes of the session, so I ended up in P3 on the start grid which was probably for the better as I never liked left-side starts here given that the track begins with a 90-degree turn followed by a hairpin all being right-handers.

I managed to sneak into P2 during the run to Druids, but had no chance to threaten Patrick's lead, especially since I started with 60L of gas for 2/3 of the race (decided to change to my strategy at the last moment). He started to grow the gap lap after lap which I expected, but surprisingly Hans-Peter in P3 was not getting any closer and was even falling behind a little. Not sure what could've caused that, maybe he had a safer (and slower) setup for the race.

Patrick pitted mid-race being about 8 seconds ahead of me, so given that my stop was gonna be about 14 seconds quicker I still had some spare time left and kept going for a few more laps, knowing that I should be at least 25 seconds ahead of him to come out of pits still in front. I had @random2k4 running at about the same pace slightly ahead of me (but nearly a lap down) , so the traffic wasn't slowing me and I could run decent laptimes on low fuel load. I pitted on lap 29 and after my slow outlap (front tires cooled down too much during the stop) Patrick shrinked the gap to less than 5 seconds. Moreover, there was @640er on new set of softs right behind me one lap down, but clearly going much faster at the moment. I decided to let him go at the first sutable moment as I didn't want him to get stuck behind a slower car (mine) and affect his pursuit of whoever he was chasing. Patrick was still a few seconds behind, so I wasn't in any kind of immediate danger after losing a second or so on that lap. After my small mistake in Surtees where I had a bad exit, I lifted off to allow Andreas to unlap himself and pull away.

Patrick caught up with me a few laps after that with about 15 minutes left in the race, but this time our battle lasted less than two laps. He had a couple of good runs on me coming out of T1, but I learned my lesson at Donington, so I covered the inside into Druids and was able to hold him off. I'm not sure if I would've been able to do that consistently for the rest of the race, but he got himself McLarened at Surtess, spun and fell more than 10 seconds behind which meant he was unlikely to catch up again barring any major mistakes on my part.

There was a strange moment with two and a half laps left to go when all the cars around and on the map suddenly disappeared and I thought that my connection crapped out or the server went down like a week before, but I kept driving and in about 10-15 seconds everyone got back on the track and fortunately nobody got teleported into me when connection restored. Hope that everybody else was intact too. That was weird, never seen anything like that before, usually if something like this happens it's game over.

This track is unique as you barely have any time to relax during a lap and most of the corners are high-speed ones with a single racing line through them, and there's grass everywhere, so mistakes on entry are very costly and you have to maintain full concentation for the entire race. Someone running consistent laps at a decent pace has very good chances to end up on the podium after capitalizing on others' mistakes, which was beautifully demonstrated by @Kek700. Kudos to you for the solid performance, driving your school bus on this narrow and twisty track!

Big thanks to @Chris Down for organizing this race and all the others before. I'm saddened that you won't be doing this anymore and that you couldn't race in this one (though that likely would've meant no win for me ). But if someone picks this job you left I hope you will still be joining us from time to time

 

[demetri]

Yes it is quite a challenge and this is my first complete race for quite a few weeks so it took a lot physically driving qualifying pace with full fuel - actually I was trying a new setup philosophy which I dialled in over the week and it really was fast - to my surprise. I lost my positions 1 min before the end of the race and was gutted.

Not sure why you think you lost any position on the last lap. This chart shows otherwise

 

[random2k4]

Not sure why you think you lost any position on the last lap. This chart shows otherwise
View attachment 464219

Maybe it was because of the server issues. According to the AC server, I finished 6th, but the positions were jumping around after the "black out". The results here show the exact stats.
It also looks like sgp didnt save the race at all, its missing in my event history. Great service ...

 

[Fiberoptix]

Gutted I had hardware issues, sounds like it was a great race in the end. Just reading the blue flag debate, I can definitely see it from your perspective Jack, I am pretty new too and sometimes there is a just so much going on in. Faster drivers are running consistent laps on auto pilot/muscle memory, thinking two corners ahead and we are (or at least I am) still just trying to keep the car on the track consistently, especially here. Luckily this racing club states it is for drivers of all experience though, so I assume the fast guys who race here embrace the challenge of having to weave around rookies and slow drivers otherwise they would run only in more serious leagues where everybody was super fast. I like the mix of speed and talent, it gives us slower drivers something to aspire to and aim for and the faster drivers something to keep them on their toes, like slightly unpredictable back markers.

 

[640er]

First of all thank you Chris one more time for all your efforts When I was new here, I didn't like the GT3 races but over time, they became one of my favourite events especially because of the community around them.

The race itself was in terms of consistency, maybe the worst ever. Found myself in a good P4 after the first turns and could go the pace of @hape in front of me but when going into Sheene I touched the gras (there it is again) with my rear left and spun. After rejoining I played part in an unlucky overtake attempt from @Interslice . The big fat GT-R ass blocked his sights of me while I still was gaining speed . The speed delta was still a lot, contact was made and all 3 of us went off. After the whole field passed I tried to make the best out of it and had some nice overtaking while going through the field. Some minor inconsistencies here and there but enough to loose too much time for a decent finish. Fun thing was, I could lap myself back against Dmitry, something I've never done before. Oh and sorry again Mark, that was completly my fault. I should have anticipated your breaking point much better :/

 

[Fiberoptix]

Maybe it was because of the server issues. According to the AC server, I finished 6th, but the positions were jumping around after the "black out". The results here show the exact stats.
It also looks like sgp didnt save the race at all, its missing in my event history. Great service ...

Maybe it was because the event was rescheduled from the original because of sign up issues with the remaining spots.

 

[Kek700]

Absolutely right, us old timers here on Racedepartment have quite a bit of latitude with availability of time, even though on this relatively tight circuit it is still a struggle to look at real time and deduce were everyone is and stay focused, I can still comfortably do it.
When you are new to it, getting affected with blue flags, trying to get the umpteen things to work in co ordination must be a real struggle.
I really do try my best to remain safe for me and the back markers, try and look at real-time, see how much time I have in hand, not to stress them too much, let them know I am there, thank them by flashing my lights, appreciating that they do me big favours, sometimes, and sometimes not, that’s racing, you just cannot have it your own way for a 100% of the time.
I always look in the mirrors and see if I have not caused any grief to these racers, who have just as an Important task on hand with their race. Feel really sorry if they disappear, knowing I have inadvertently caused the problem.

Here on Sunday races, everyone is quick, if Chris goes past it does not in anyway devalue
all your undoubted ability’s.

Just one thing, I have blue flagged a lots of drivers here on Sunday Gt3 in the past 2 years, most of the Rotters if not all of them are faster than me now

 

[jackdyson31]

you can start thinking about where to let them by and minimize time loss for all sides.

Good point about the app - I had not seen it before. Cheers mate

I will just add that there is no time to think. When approaching any corner at Brands there are precious few markers - you get one rough marker on entry if you are lucky and then you have to switch to the apex to hit it flat out or nearly so. The exits should be ok if the car is setup well. When I try and guide myself into the apex via the entry point marker, there is so little room for error I will miss the apex and understeer off. So any blue flag maneuver has to be instinctive and coordinated on both sides. I need to let them past as soon as possible, they need to give me room to do it safely for me. As for priority - my first priority is my race and then the traffic.

This app sounds like a great tool to do that.

 

[jackdyson31]

One thing that might help you is the built in "Realtime" app. It shows a few positions in front and a few positions behind, and during the race if one is labelled in green and the seconds delta on the right is approaching zero and is below your name, you know that one of cars behind you is lapping you. It's even usually accurate enough to allow you to know which out of (say) a group of three behind it is based on distance.

Enjoy this professionally graphic designed infographic:

View attachment 464208

Edit: jinx

Morning Chris !

Such a wonderful lifesaving graphic there and thank you for chiming in with it! Last time you told me about the delta and that really got me sorting out a few issues I was having then.

I didn't know - I'll use it from now on - sounds good

PS @Frontrunners I am colour blind ...