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SGP GT3 @ Brands Hatch - Sunday 11th April 2021

RasmusP

Premium
Was it Okayama? I thought we settled in on a net-code issue?
Yes and yep, we did!
It's all good! :)
I only listed it because you kinda "blamed me" in public and since others might remember it, I added it as an example of calling people out after the race.

We could resolve it and everything is fine!

Also initially your phrasing was totally okay! You only said "Rasmus had different plans for us". And if I would've been at fault, which I was on yours and Dmitry's replay, lol, then I would've earnt that part of your sentence :D

Just wasn't super great for me as my race was more or less ruined too without any mistake from me and I then had to pledge my case :whistling::roflmao:
 

demetri

Premium
woot when , cant remember?

@Taj Johal As Rasmus already analyzed, in my Car Radar, you were not along side me. Thats why I moved over to the right. Hope this works here is a short clip of the maneuver.

https://streamable.com/e/2nbc0e

Downhill Paddock was enough room for both of us, and I hugged the curbs as much as possible. Knowing my exit speed would be greater then yours.
Breaked at my typical marker for Druids , knowing you in the Lambo would need to break a little earlier then the Z4. Had to make a slight correction while accelerating out of Druids. Also the inside was blocked with Linus, so I stayed on the outer line and coulndt get to the apex. For me the overtake was over at that point and I focused on the next corner combination. Thats then you were with your nose at my rear bumper. Not actual, just speaking of the distance here. Going into Graham you were this close only once again for a split second. The moment I hit the breaks my car radar showed me we didnt overlap, and you already started to fall behind which made me assume you already hit the breaks. Again Z4s need to break a little later. I moved a little to the right to get a better corner entry. And I saw you lost even more distance to me. Thought you had enough room to break. While I was turning in, you came suddenly closer, thats when you hit the grass I guess. I could have breaked a little earlier to let more room on the outside, I was just super focused on getting back through the field as fast as possible. I think the "Last lap" time shows that.

Again Rasmus made a superb analyzes already. I also will keep in mind to try to give a little more room to the drivers at the end of the field. Racing all the time against Rasmus, Han and Ernie only teaches you to not give away an inch ;)

PS: is there an option to embed the video? the normal embed function does not work for that link.
Watching these videos and screenshots I don't even see what all the fuss was about. Both the initial pass and the run to Graham Hill were absolutely fine with Taj himself leaving you all that space to work with. I guess this again comes from different skills and expectations. Faster drivers are used to battle much closer to each other and don't mind moves like that and they also can anticipate what the opponent is gonna do and execute their own moves preemptively.

Speaking of, I'd like you guys to analyze this short clip and say if that was a legal move or not. I believe it was because I moved to take the right line immediately after T1 while there was no overlap yet in order to claim the inside into Druids. But Patrick almost managed to stick his nose there. Were I to begin my move a few moments later he would've gotten an overlap by the end of it and I would have to leave him that space on the right and then likely concede in the next corner as my tires were worn too much to win a side-by-side battle. But I managed to move my car in front of his just in time, so he had nowhere to go but to lift-off and move to the left. There's a thin line between tough defending and illegal blocking and I think I pushed it right to that line but haven't crossed it, but maybe I'm wrong here.

 

random2k4

Premium
You intentionally defended the inside on both turns. Even your movement to the left never went more then the middle of the track. There was always enough space on the left for another car.
I would say it was just defending the position, for blocking you would have to wiggle from left to right over the entire track to make it impossible for Patrick to move along side you. But you chose one line and stuck to it. So looked fine for me.
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
Watching these videos and screenshots I don't even see what all the fuss was about. Both the initial pass and the run to Graham Hill were absolutely fine with Taj himself leaving you all that space to work with. I guess this again comes from different skills and expectations. Faster drivers are used to battle much closer to each other and don't mind moves like that and they also can anticipate what the opponent is gonna do and execute their own moves preemptively.

Speaking of, I'd like you guys to analyze this short clip and say if that was a legal move or not. I believe it was because I moved to take the right line immediately after T1 while there was no overlap yet in order to claim the inside into Druids. But Patrick almost managed to stick his nose there. Were I to begin my move a few moments later he would've gotten an overlap by the end of it and I would have to leave him that space on the right and then likely concede in the next corner as my tires were worn too much to win a side-by-side battle. But I managed to move my car in front of his just in time, so he had nowhere to go but to lift-off and move to the left. There's a thin line between tough defending and illegal blocking and I think I pushed it right to that line but haven't crossed it, but maybe I'm wrong here.

Imo nothing wrong with what you did because you moved only once before the braking zone for each turn.

Which leads to another question : if I am behind you can I weave?
 

pattikins

Premium
Watching these videos and screenshots I don't even see what all the fuss was about. Both the initial pass and the run to Graham Hill were absolutely fine with Taj himself leaving you all that space to work with. I guess this again comes from different skills and expectations. Faster drivers are used to battle much closer to each other and don't mind moves like that and they also can anticipate what the opponent is gonna do and execute their own moves preemptively.

Speaking of, I'd like you guys to analyze this short clip and say if that was a legal move or not. I believe it was because I moved to take the right line immediately after T1 while there was no overlap yet in order to claim the inside into Druids. But Patrick almost managed to stick his nose there. Were I to begin my move a few moments later he would've gotten an overlap by the end of it and I would have to leave him that space on the right and then likely concede in the next corner as my tires were worn too much to win a side-by-side battle. But I managed to move my car in front of his just in time, so he had nowhere to go but to lift-off and move to the left. There's a thin line between tough defending and illegal blocking and I think I pushed it right to that line but haven't crossed it, but maybe I'm wrong here.

I've been involved in enough 'controversy' today, so I'm staying out of this one :confused: :roflmao: .
 

jackdyson31

Premium
The car behind can do whatever he pleases. just the car in front its normally illegal to switch sides more then once. But F1 doesnt seem to care.
Got it, cheers Stefan :)

Yeah in F1 especially in the 80's I had the impression you could block as you liked - I mean in a sense it is ok like the move Mansell made on Piquet - he feinted laft and then right to pass at Silverstone, and like Schumacher closing the door hard etc But the rules are different in other series as you say
 
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demetri

Premium
The car behind can do whatever he pleases. just the car in front its normally illegal to switch sides more then once. But F1 doesnt seem to care.
Unless it also has another car right behind (which is a rare thing though). And F1 doesn't care indeed
 
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demetri

Premium
Got it, cheers Stefan :)

Yeah in F1 especially in the 80's I had the impression you could block as you liked - I mean in a sense it is ok like the move Mansell made on Piquet - he feinted laft and then right to pass at Silverstone, and like Schumacher closing the door hard etc But the rules are different in other series as you say
If you meant this one (starts at 33:52):
It's perfectly fine by any series standards. Mansell sold him a dummy. Fooled Piquet to make him take the outside line and then passed on the inside. It is a classic racing move, I used to do just that on Spa public servers before the final chicane
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
If you meant this one (starts at 33:52):
yes Dmitry that is exactly the one ! Do you remember the one outside Berger at Mexico ? :cool:
It's perfectly fine by any series standards. Mansell sold him a dummy. Fooled Piquet to make him take the outside line and then passed on the inside. It is a classic racing move, I used to do just that on Spa public servers before the final chicane
Right ok - a quick question, when you have time please, can you show an example what is considered weaving into a corner to protect your position in F1 ?
 

demetri

Premium
yes Dmitry that is exactly the one ! Do you remember the one outside Berger at Mexico ? :cool:

Right ok - a quick question, when you have time please, can you show an example what is considered weaving into a corner to protect your position in F1 ?
No, I don't and I had to google the Silverstone one. They were not broadcasting F1 events on TV in 1987 in the Soviet Union :D. The first time F1 was ever shown (aside from a few terrible crashes that evil capitalists subjected poor drivers to) was half and hour overview of Hungary GP of 1989.

This race start move by Russel looks somewhat questionable to me:
He first goes to defend the inside and then changes the line to block Verstappen trying to get ahead on the outside
 

jackdyson31

Premium
They were not broadcasting F1 events on TV in 1987 in the Soviet Union :D.
:roflmao: ah - so you were there in the workers paradise. So much has changed there now.
(aside from a few terrible crashes that evil capitalists subjected poor drivers to
:roflmao: well you know us lot ... always out for a buck !
This race start move by Russel looks somewhat questionable to me:
Thanks a lot for finding it :)
He first goes to defend the inside and then changes the line to block Verstappen trying to get ahead on the outside
Yeah I got it - just so it is clear in my mind what is what in actual practice.

Ah and here, Mansell at Mexico:


I am sure you will agree - always spectacular :D When you get the downforce right on the Nissan - the more speed you carry into a corner the more it gives you back - spectacular thing - downforce.
 
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demetri

Premium
Ah and here, Mansell at Mexico:


I am sure you will agree - always spectacular :D When you get the downforce right on the Nissan - the more speed you carry into a corner the more it gives you back - spectacular thing - downforce.

Oh, that's a very ballsy move. Overtaking on the outside in a high-speed turn on worn tires. The guy (even if he's got just a single F1 title) is a legend, they don't make them anymore
 

jackdyson31

Premium
Oh, that's a very ballsy move. Overtaking on the outside in a high-speed turn on worn tires. The guy (even if he's got just a single F1 title) is a legend, they don't make them anymore
Yeah, him, Senna and Alain are my favourite drivers. And he honestly should have had three imo if bad luck (Adelaide) and politics (1993) hand not shown their hand. No they certainly don't make them like that any more.

I'll say that winning a race here is so beyond imagination, so I sometimes wonder about what is the value of an F1 title in the 70's and 80's with those cars?
 
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