Force feedback and hopefully some ideas

[Andi Goodwin]

Hi guys ive been reading a lot about the complaints and stuff and in the whole i agree with you but before i go into huge detail we have to remember that it is a feeling thing so every one is going to want something different

firstly some files can be found here
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/r3e-controller-rcs-files.64703/page-4#post-1527503
as with all of these remap your buttons/pedals /shifters etc

the base files in game feel over dampened and have a few other things going on

I know a lot of you hate tweaking and are really not happy with what is on offer

fanatec wheels ... take the bmw csw one ... and just change the force feedback levels you will probably want to turn it up also there is a note about rear tyre grip in the txt file

logitech wheels take the g27 one and again tweak the force to your preference


please please do give feedback as it helps and hopefully these changes will give people a little more what they are looking for


If you have a wheel thats not in this list i will do my best to tweak it , just upload the rcs on this page and i will tweak it a little ....

can we keep the discussions here and if you want to propose an rcs file put it in that thread

If people want to know what has been tweaked and some of the not so logical logic behind it then ask and ill try to explain what ive done


hope this helps

Andi

 

[Andi Goodwin]

if you find the Bmw CSW too light overall bump the force feedback strength up in the controller settings /force feedback/force feedback strength

at present its 70% bump it up , 85% gives a heavier/stronger feel without loss of feeling

Andi

 

[Stelios]

what if i got a G25? What do i have to change in the G27 RCS file to make it usable with my wheel?

 

[Andi Goodwin]

as far as i know you just remap the buttons ... pedals etc and set the equivalents in the profiler


Andi

 

[Peter]

as far as i know you just remap the buttons ... pedals etc and set the equivalents in the profiler


Andi

I think it will say your missing the G27.
If it does you can upload it here and Andi can change the G25 for you and the other G25 users.

 

[Stelios]

Yes it does, is there a line i can change in the .rcs so it can work with the g25?
I dont think i need to upload mine, because i havent touched it for a long time and im not sure which file i was using while experimenting. But if you look in the controlset directory there is a default G25 profile.

 

[Peter]

Yes it does, is there a line i can change in the .rcs so it can work with the g25?
I dont think i need to upload mine, because i havent touched it for a long time and im not sure which file i was using while experimenting. But if you look in the controlset directory there is a default G25 profile.

We can't use the default control set, we need a custom made one. The default one only duplicates it self.
We can tweak any custom made and share it with anybody.

http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/r3e-controller-rcs-files.64703/page-4#post-1527503

 

[Andi Goodwin]

can you see the one that is named logitech g27 peter? in the controller profiles . if so click on it and then remap your keys
if not try this ... i hope i didnt fuxour it though as i have no way of testing it ; as always remap your buttons/pedal


Andi

 

[Andi Goodwin]

Added a momo one ... it needs more testing , also follow g27 txt file for profiler but its 270°

if a few people give feedback on g25 one aswell (feedback helps) ill add it


Andi

 

[Tony Hope]

I tried the G25 it shows up in the control profile ok but its not for me its very "tight "in the centre of wheel rotation and when you turn it is "loose" and turns quickly, I also followed the G27 txt file. Thanks for the effort though Andi I tried to get the G27 file to work a few days ago and couldn't get it to work

 

[Andi Goodwin]

I tried the G25 it shows up in the control profile ok but its not for me its very "tight "in the centre of wheel rotation and when you turn it is "loose" and turns quickly, I also followed the G27 txt file. Thanks for the effort though Andi I tried to get the G27 file to work a few days ago and couldn't get it to work

Tony send me your rcs and that way i can set a custom one for you .. it will only take me a few minutes (make sure its the one you have setup not the standard game one )

just upload it on this page

Andi

 

[Andi Goodwin]

ok just looked at the g25 one and realise that it doesnt have the forces reversed / so re uploading it with forces reversed (with the forces non reversed this would give tight centre ; falling away feel)

Andi

 

[Tony Hope]

Hi Andi
sorry for the delay life got into the way of gaming
here is my .rcs file its a mixture of settings I've taken of the forums here I find it ok .
I will D/L the new G25 one and try it, I guess set the Logitech global profile up the same as the G27 txt ?

 

[Andi Goodwin]

hi Tony , here's yours retweaked .... changed the ffb and killed the speed sensitive steering , follow the suggestions for the profiler (g27.txt link on rcs thread )

Andi

 

[Tony Hope]

wow where to start
Car and track I guess I tested these G25 .rcs files on Bathurst Mt. panorama with the Judd V8 (love that car) with get real but didn't change any settings during the test.
Tried the first file liked the FFB and general feel could feel the car "lift" the wheels over the mountain and down through the dipper, steering feels a bit lighter than with my .rcs, after about an hour test I couldn't improve my times but was within a second consistently and thought with a bit more practice I could improve my times
Put in my .rcs that Andi tweaked and about 10 laps later took 0.6 of my lap times (completely stuffed up Forest elbow in that lap) enough said
I can only suggest anyone with a G25 looking for a setup to try D/L both these files and try them they may not be for you but it is certainly worth a try, don't forget to change the Logitech profiler settings
Now all I gotta do is learn how to drive fast and setup a car
And to you Andi.... you ARE the man.... thank you

 

[Sean Lander]

Agree with you there love the Judd at Bathurst. But now even more I love the BMW M3 as it's closer in performance to a V8 Supercar. Love to compare lap times!

Anyway loaded up the BMW Rim RCS and my impressions are that it is way to light. The rumble strip feel is good but for some reason with this setting I seem to be under steering a lot more.

I prefer a lot more wheel weight but I lose a bit of accuracy because of it. Ideally I think I'm looking for a setting somewhere in the middle. Will keep tweaking away.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

i did mention that you can tweak the weight either by using the force button on wheel or by adding a bit more force in game , the idea was to get the maximum feeling through the wheel and to avoid clipping

try ingame ffs 75 and the ffsf to 1.05 or 1.1

i admit i turn up things sometimes depending on how i feel , but i just dont want it to clip out and loose the road sensation, lift and weight transfer due to the fact i have my wheel feeling like a tractor with a siezed steering box

thanks for the feedback gents

if you get good feeling and heavier can you say what you did and ill add it to the csw txt file

Andi

 

[Tony Hope]

0.365 behind you Sean
soz for thread hijack

 

[cliopatra]

As I'm working on a new control set rather to alter existing ones, I'd like to tell about the ongoing process, my approach and my understanding of the general mechanism. We could probably exchange our views to progress in its understanding.

I managed to get a strong, sharp but also smooth setup basis where I hopefully will be able to integrate less static but dynamic and context sensitive forces. The idea was to get strong mass weight gradually lighter and not constant smooth mass weight sharper. It's a different approach as I'm uncompromisingly seaking to maintain a strong underlying mass effect and to lighten it through a gradual lost of grip without using damper and friction. I hope that maximum mass weight combined with the most possible sharpness will provide a broader range to transmit other forces. A BMW 635 CSI should feel radically different from a prototype for instance.

The current setup provides mainly resistive forces. It works rather well as you have quite a broad range allowing you to interact with the resistance from cornering forces as you can still feel mass when loosing grip. I think that's the advantage of focussing on mass weight. The wheel also already countersteers by itself in a certain way, you can let the wheel steer and interact with it... but not yet enough.

As far as I understand, a wheel can basicly transmit resistive and pushing forces. In order to translate the forces through ffb, I would consider the first to be passively transmitted, the driver has to push against the resistance, and the second ones to be actively transmitted. The wheel is actively pushing and the driver has to resist it. After having setup a context where passive force resistance is transmitted, the next step would be to integrate and better transmit the more active, pushing ffb forces. As told, there is already a mix of both but I think that resistive forces outweigh the other ones. They are rather static in the sense that you can barely feel changing resistance from varying speed dependent forces. When you turn the wheel faster or slower, the resistance doens't change dynamically.

I might be wrong and thus my whole concept, but I think there is where the "FFB steer force exponent" parameter (default 1.0 value so far) comes into play as it extremly increases the general sharpness of the control set when you decrease it by only 0.05 points for instance! These are strong and short forces which make the wheel vigorously shake the more you lower it. I would call these effects the active/dynamic ones. Note that values range from 0 to infinity, where more than 1.0 means lower sensitivity. Unless I'm mistaken, this parameter should be configured together with damper and friction who range between positive and negative values also with different saturation. Maybe these parameters could be configured in a opposing way in order to have more dynamic effects.

Although this setup isn't really car independent it's easyly configurable in the game UI due to its high sensitivity. With a tight car setup controlled drifting becomes possible, it's a fun playground. From another point of view, it's bad that ffb settings have such an impact on the underlying physics engine being the core of a sim after all.

Many aspects are very subjective, but I wanted to mention it as the mechanism should work with different wheels who may need tweaking depending on belt or gear driven models and different locks.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

to be honest i havent really analysed what the real process was ... the only goal was to build a setup that would sit well across a range of wheels and cars and only needing the minimum changes possible to suit each car and wheel ... i tried to get it balanced so end users didnt have to dig in the rcs file ....; as ffb is such a personal thing ,, i have always tried in a way to get the car to hint at what i should be doing (ie countersteering naturally coming through the wheel)

other than that it was really ideas shared with Peter and swapping files back and forth and more driving , it was initial based on a fanatec gt3 wheel setup and then slid to the clubsport wheel peter then tweaked it for the t500 and g27 ... other than that not much to say really ... i read a few things and tried a few things ...

As from the beginning i have believed that the game itself is giving enough info to make this a good sim but the default files are pants ... i still believe it could be better from the code side and ill keep trying to make enough noise for it to be tweaked more

Andi