Ferrari SF-70H Driving Style & Tips

[TheMaroon47]

Anyone have any tips on driving or setup for the SF-70H? Feels like I'm doing something wrong when I'm driving it, but nothing that's truly noticeable, likely me just being nitpicky on my own driving style. The car slides mid-corner sometimes but that's likely due to a lack of downforce (not enough downforce anyway). Anything anyone's got with driving this beast would be appreciated

 

[TheMaroon47]

Cough, i was able to do Copse flat-out with your setup thou it severly lacks front aero (and thus loosing a lot of speed), that 1:28.7 is probably with 15 or 16 front and rear downforce).
In F1 unlike GT, you don't guide the car around the corners as much, sometimes you have to wrestle it to submission.
Driving any high downforce car is about pushing it harder than it seems possible, remember the faster you go, the more grip you have. It's really that simple and I think it cannot be overstated enough.

Also i'd not read too much into MrDeap posts, he clearly hasn't driven modern F1 much. Also i have no idea what he's on with brake gamma... How does significantly reducing brake sensitivity in early part of pedal travel by using gamma 1 could equal more control over trailbraking part of the corner? If anything, troubles with lifting off brake pedal can be fixed by increasing gamma... thou i'd not recommend going past "2".

Well I've tried going through Copse flat-out, which lead to the rear end snapping on me. Then I tried going through Copse again with RockyFra's suggested setup, which lead to the rear-end snapping on me.
Am I really that at driving? I know of all the more speed = more downforce stuff, mostly from playing Codemasters F1 games, which are pretty arcadish if I'm honest. Now that I think about it, it might be either an ambient temp issue, setup issue or possibly stalled airflow to the rear diffuser.
Here's a new track, new setup and same, average driver, done in Time Attack mode because apparently I can go a second quicker under pressure (compared to my 20 laps in Practice, which were all 1.11.xxs).
I've seen people doing 1.05s, and obviously the actual drivers that do 1.04s. How many cups of coffee and steroid injections do you need to pull off something like that? Mine was a 1.10.020.

 

[RockyFra]

Well I've tried going through Copse flat-out, which lead to the rear end snapping on me. Then I tried going through Copse again with RockyFra's suggested setup, which lead to the rear-end snapping on me.
Am I really that at driving? I know of all the more speed = more downforce stuff, mostly from playing Codemasters F1 games, which are pretty arcadish if I'm honest. Now that I think about it, it might be either an ambient temp issue, setup issue or possibly stalled airflow to the rear diffuser.
Here's a new track, new setup and same, average driver, done in Time Attack mode because apparently I can go a second quicker under pressure (compared to my 20 laps in Practice, which were all 1.11.xxs).
I've seen people doing 1.05s, and obviously the actual drivers that do 1.04s. How many cups of coffee and steroid injections do you need to pull off something like that? Mine was a 1.10.020.

You're simply not throwing the car through corners, you're not using aerodynamics.

There's a certain speed where you have not enough downforce from aero, because you're going too slow and not enough mechanical grip because you're going too fast, so you car tends to slip away.

Look here, different car, different track but same principle:

 

[TheMaroon47]

You're simply not throwing the car through corners, you're not using aerodynamics.

There's a certain speed where you have not enough downforce from aero, because you're going too slow and not enough mechanical grip because you're going too fast, so you car tends to slip away.

I would say throwing the car through Copse at 295kph is sufficient for the aerodynamics to start working.

 

[RockyFra]

I would say throwing the car through Copse at 295kph is sufficient for the aerodynamics to start working.

I mean, Copse, turn 3 at Barcelona and maybe Pouhon are flatout-friendly with a 2017 car, turn 1 at RBR is a tricky curve when you have to throw your car in with decent speed an then try to not oversteer while stepping on the throttle. I watched the video you posted, and I noticed that you were using just the mechanical grip the car delivers, if you want better laptimes, you should improve your entering speed, till' you feel that the car has no more to give.

 

[Mr Deap]

Use more steering lock mid entry. Experiment the whole traction capacity of the car(stuff that would make you spin out in F1 codemaster) while using odd inputs.

 

[TheMaroon47]

I mean, Copse, turn 3 at Barcelona and maybe Pouhon are flatout-friendly with a 2017 car, turn 1 at RBR is a tricky curve when you have to throw your car in with decent speed an then try to not oversteer while stepping on the throttle. I watched the video you posted, and I noticed that you were using just the mechanical grip the car delivers, if you want better laptimes, you should improve your entering speed, till' you feel that the car has no more to give.

Just a thought but I noticed every single time I spun out at Copse was with the ERS deployment set to Hotlap. Copse was flat for me in almost every other mode so I'm wondering if it could be the extra power delivered by the ERS causing the outer rear wheel (LR) to spin.
Disregard everything I just said. Was likely an ambient temp issue. I had the temp in my previous runs set to 19C. Now its at 16C and everything is fine.

 

[BhZ]

Guys, aero is important, but it's not like if you go too slow then you have no aero and so you spin. Aero grows with speed. If you go 10 kph slower you will have, let's say, 30kg less of df but you will also experience less lateral force, so the car will make the corner anyway. If he spins at corpse the possibilities are these: diffuser stall, hot rear tires, too much steering input, downforce not balanced (front wing too high compared to the rear). Check also tire pressure, as it reduces the overall grip.

 

[TheMaroon47]

Guys, aero is important, but it's not like if you go too slow then you have no aero and so you spin. Aero grows with speed. If you go 10 kph slower you will have, let's say, 30kg less of df but you will also experience less lateral force, so the car will make the corner anyway. If he spins at corpse the possibilities are these: diffuser stall, hot rear tires, too much steering input, downforce not balanced (front wing too high compared to the rear). Check also tire pressure, as it reduces the overall grip.

Thanks for that BhZ but you must've not seen the edit. Problem was with ambient temp which was warmer by 3C. Now I can go through Copse at full pelt no problem. It's amazing how much a difference 3 degrees Celsius can make. Happy that the Formula 1 car is actually starting to handle like a Formula 1 car. Now if only I could get the slow speed sections right

 

[Mr Deap]

Temp affect both wings & tires efficiency. Due to the different way the car grip & turn... It also affect the whole rest of the setup.

Although, there's still the driving inputs that can be improved greatly without much effort put into it.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Thanks for that BhZ but you must've not seen the edit. Problem was with ambient temp which was warmer by 3C. Now I can go through Copse at full pelt no problem. It's amazing how much a difference 3 degrees Celsius can make. Happy that the Formula 1 car is actually starting to handle like a Formula 1 car. Now if only I could get the slow speed sections right

Nice !
For the slow speed is a bit like MrDeap says , you need to explore the grip of the car, thou i'd not concentrate on entry but exit. It seems that you don't trust the car, and try to guide it into stable position mid corner so you have enough room to control it on exit.
Try making some laps in a a bit safer setup where you explore how much throttle and turning can you get away with. On most corners of the RBR track you could accelerate hard ~0.2s earlier.
Reaching the limits on exit more often should give you more confidence in the car, thus dropping the need to be careful on entry which could again shave up to ~0.4s per corner.

 

[TheMaroon47]

Nice !
For the slow speed is a bit like MrDeap says , you need to explore the grip of the car, thou i'd not concentrate on entry but exit. It seems that you don't trust the car, and try to guide it into stable position mid corner so you have enough room to control it on exit.
Try making some laps in a a bit safer setup where you explore how much throttle and turning can you get away with. On most corners of the RBR track you could accelerate hard ~0.2s earlier.
Reaching the limits on exit more often should give you more confidence in the car, thus dropping the need to be careful on entry which could again shave up to ~0.4s per corner.

The only times I ever trust the car is when a certain ERS setting is set to either Charging or Balanced-Low
There's quite a bit of... turbo lag...? I suppose (even though there shouldn't be)? I don't trust the car in general, especially around low speed corners where the ICU drops off the power band. Then when you start getting close to the limiter it spins up the rears. Don't really like it, especially at Silverstone.
Here's my best attempt at Silverstone GP so far. Somehow, on every single lap I was on, I managed to make a mistake, so at least I'm consistent there
Also happy that there's no need to slow down when approaching Copse
Not a 1.28 by a long shot, but definitely not a 1.39
I've always driven the AMG GT3, which is NA (so never really experience any kind of lag), TC, you get the rest, though I can still fare quite well without TC/ABS. Maybe that's why I'm having a hard time transitioning. My last Codemasters F1 experience was on F1 2016. Way less downforce and grip, so you get why I would want to turn in to Copse at 270kph instead of 300.
EDIT: I seriously have no idea what's going on with the FPS in the video. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

If you feel something that can be called "turbo lag" it means you are in the wrong gear, for example i use 1st in The Loop ( 4th corner at silverstone). It's really important for several reasons:
1) it reduces mid corner understeer by keeping engine braking and recovery working as they should - this not only make the car faster but also keep it "hooked" on the corner, eliminating the transition from under to oversteer that can be felt like a laggy response to throttle.
2) keeps the engine reving high where power is constant so you get immediate feedback
3) allows for short shifting, when you feel rears are starting to spin up but dont want to lift
4) changes how ERS is deployed meaning you might get less power in 1st compared 2nd (counter intuitive)
5) eliminates turbo lag, and i think there is a turbo controller thats related to speed, so you get less boost (better response and less power) in lower gears.

Also another tip , there is no modulating the throttle when above ~180 km/h (5ht gear) it's only 100%. No matter what, the car should stick. And if there are bumps or rears are overheating just make (tiny) corrections with steering instead of throttle (and go 0.5m wider). You'll gain like 1s on that alone.

F1 cars have this funny thing where below certain speed they are handful and above it they are planted like a rock. You have to teach your brain to flip a switch when going over that speed - from careful to reckless. For example that swich should flip usually half-way through last turn at Silversone.

 

[TheMaroon47]

If you feel something that can be called "turbo lag" it means you are in the wrong gear, for example i use 1st in The Loop ( 4th corner at silverstone). It's really important for several reasons:
1) it reduces mid corner understeer by keeping engine braking and recovery working as they should - this not only make the car faster but also keep it "hooked" on the corner, eliminating the transition from under to oversteer that can be felt like a laggy response to throttle.
2) keeps the engine reving high where power is constant so you get immediate feedback
3) allows for short shifting, when you feel rears are starting to spin up but dont want to lift
4) changes how ERS is deployed meaning you might get less power in 1st compared 2nd (counter intuitive)
5) eliminates turbo lag, and i think there is a turbo controller thats related to speed, so you get less boost (better response and less power) in lower gears.

Also another tip , there is no modulating the throttle when above ~180 km/h (5ht gear) it's only 100%. No matter what, the car should stick. And if there are bumps or rears are overheating just make tiny correction with steering wheel and go 1m wider. You'll gain like 1s on that alone.

F1 cars have this funny thing where below certain speed they are handful and above it they are planted like a rock. You have to teach your brain to flip a switch when going over that speed - from careful to reckless. For example that swich should flip usually half-way through last turn at Silversone.

Yes I understand F1 cars are like that. It was the same in F1 2016, though like I said, considerably less downforce at that time. The problem with the final turn at Silverstone is, it doesn't stick, in fifth. For whatever reason, no matter how much I try and straight line it and use the kerb, it'll spin the rears and send me flying to Narnia. Not sure what you mean by changing the ERS deployment. I've read up on the deployment of the ERS in AC and it's supposed to be lower at lower gears, higher at mid-range gears and lower at higher gears, depending on deployment profile, but generally, that's the way it works.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

What kind of wing does your lap above have? looks like it's way too low.
Also your tyres are overpressured by quite a lot, it might be worth it trying a harder compound and lower pressures.

As for ERS, it is, from ~4th upwards, where tyres can take the additional power. In lower gears thou deployment is reduced because it's pointless to drain battery while engine is not at 100%

Also a tip for stowe, dont brake in straight line so much, i heard 3 gear changes before turn in. You want to enter at much higher speed and bleed it through tyres/aero/engine braking. With proper downforce and limited deployment you should get away with not touching brakes at all there.

 

[TheMaroon47]

What kind of wing does your lap above have? looks like it's way too low.
Also your tyres are overpressured by quite a lot, it might be worth it trying a harder compound and lower pressures.

As for ERS, it is, from ~4th upwards, where tyres can take the additional power. In lower gears thou deployment is reduced because it's pointless to drain battery while engine is not at 100%

Also a tip for stowe, dont brake in straight line so much, i heard 3 gear changes before turn in. You want to enter at much higher speed and bleed it through tyres/aero/engine braking. With proper downforce and limited deployment you should get away with not touching brakes at all there.

What kind of wing does your lap above have? looks like it's way too low.
Also your tyres are overpressured by quite a lot, it might be worth it trying a harder compound and lower pressures.

As for ERS, it is, from ~4th upwards, where tyres can take the additional power. In lower gears thou deployment is reduced because it's pointless to drain battery while engine is not at 100%

Also a tip for stowe, dont brake in straight line so much, i heard 3 gear changes before turn in. You want to enter at much higher speed and bleed it through tyres/aero/engine braking. With proper downforce and limited deployment you should get away with not touching brakes at all there.

Well there's a reason why Pirelli doesn't run the US around Silverstone. I'd much rather use the SS at the very least. High pressure and temps with that compound are a given, especially around Maggots & Beckets. Wing was 16/16/18 LF/RF/RW if I remember correctly. I don't like going too fast into Stowe, as the car tends to slide, and hot Ultrasofts are bad Ultrasofts.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Ok there is definitely something wrong there, at 16/18 you should be welded to the track, and i don't see that in your video... got to go now, will check it later on my side (didn't drive F1 in a while in AC). cheers

edit: nope the car just wasnt as i remembered it

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Ok, so i was writing like a proper racing driver, exaggerating a.f. XD The car is definitely not welded in lower gears.
I think it comes down to experiance. Im using some preemptive input based on where exactly the car is on the track, and it's subconcious so it feels planted. So i take back that something is wrong, the car just have so much top end performance that to tame it takes a lot of experiance and practice.

Two more things i noticed regarding rear stability (at silverstone):
- it looks like your front tyres are not as hot as rears - you are not using them enough. Even when i drove with 15/11 wings i was wasting fronts which made the car much more stable. To do this, you have to throw the car in at higher speed, lean on the front tyres much more into corners like Brooklands or Stowe
- camber, especially if you lowered the car, you need less of it - shoot for -1.5 to -1.0 live at the rear.

 

[Mr Deap]

You can cut time by driving more symmetric. Late apex is again another BS.

EDIT: Turn more early.

 

[TheMaroon47]

So... I had a (few) cups of coffee, strapped my man pants on and went around the RBR for a few laps . Suffice to say, I know what I'm doing wrong. I'm treating the 2017 car like it's a 2016 car. Braking a lot better than I was in the videos above. Now, I'm still making a few basic mistakes, which will only go away with practice, but I was able to do a pretty decent lap (for my standards anyway). Now if you s will excuse me, I need to go lie down for a bit

 

[Mr Deap]

Lift off momentum is the most important skillset for sim racing IMHO.