AC FAT-ALFIE championship multiclass round 5@Battenberging, Wed 13th December 2023

[HF2000]

Hi guys,

How about doing Fonteny in normal daytime to avoid synchronizing problems and possible performance issues?

 

[gearwhine]

Hi guys,

How about doing Fonteny in normal daytime to avoid synchronizing problems and possible performance issues?

Plus it is a more demanding track. Good idea. Was very distracting last time with daylight flashing every few mins.

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

Good Idea Han

 

[Boukâh]

Plus it is a more demanding track. Good idea. Was very distracting last time with daylight flashing every few mins.

Yeah, I had the same, kinda ‘flash-bang’ sunrises every few minutes. I didn’t leave and rejoin at race start, because last time the speeding settled just in time for the start. Not this time though .

Maybe safer to go daylight at Fonteny.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Well,

usually I´m "Mr old stick in the mud" but this time I really enjoyed the track and race.
Maybe, just maybe "doing the work" pays off

It appears most drivers had a bad race including myself.

I´d have to strongly reject that statement
Last time on this track I ****ed up badly, but this time work was slow and I spent a lot of time on holiday in Hessen


About "Daytime in France" I vote "Aye", switching of Sol App will relieve my system greatly

 

[HF2000]

Ok, enough feedback. Thanks guys. I'll make Fonteny a daylight race.

 

[stigs2cousin]

It will be a tough challenge non the less.

The local tow truck driver already already greats me by name (and with a cold one )

And always on the last two clicks, these last corners in the woods are bleeeeeping bleep, bleep bleep

 

[zn1zn2c]

So as you might've noticed in earlier threads I tend to write quite... lengthy post race reviews. Seemed I really out did myself this time. To make it easier to skip stuff I've cut up and labeled each section.

Anyway, this race was a bit of a mixed bag for me. Left the race a bit frustrated but now that the emotions have cooled down I'm looking back at a very enjoyable race.

Master Allan
For this race I joined Allan's dojo in the weekend and he taught me all of his secrets... Actually, he just showed me how much of a difference a good setup makes. I was setting 38s with a 38.3 as my PB during the week. Sadly I couldn't replicate those lap times during the event.

Thanks again for the tips, Allan! You really made this race more enjoyable and safe for me.

First laps
I had a pretty good start, not losing 4 positions within the first few corners for a change. Had some trouble adjusting to the Abarths in front of me during the first lap though. This made me lose some time and eventually some positions.

Always Steve
There he was again: Steve was creeping into my rear-view mirror. We were yoyoing the gap between us for a few laps until I made a mistake going into the second corner and Steve took advantage of that, gaining the position. I really didn't want to lose another race versus Steve and I knew that if I could keep close to him there would be a change for me to overtake on the last part of the lap. And I did!

From there on I could grow the gap bit by bit. It was the first time I could keep Steve behind me after the checkered flag. For that alone I felt like I deserved a congratulatory beer.

King Carsten
There was some incident in front of me that involved Ernie (I think) which made Carsten lose some time and I was right behind him once again. Ernie quickly regained pace and sped past me. Right at the end of the lap he got really close to Carsten but just about couldn't overtake him. This meant I was doomed to sniff Abarth ass for the next lap which gave Carsten the opportunity to grow the gap once more.
I decided to pit that lap, hoping Carsten would stay out, but it seemed he was on the same strategy as me.

On another note Carsten: just wanted to say you're one of the most sensible drivers on the grid and an example for us all. At least you are to me. Also very consistent! I might sometimes be faster on a single lap, but your maturity just wins out every time. I have a lot to learn in that regard and can't wait to one day really challenge you!

High hopes, big disappointment
With 20 minutes to go I found myself in p7 with Richard right in front of me. I had quite a gap behind me and I was carefully starting to get optimistic about a good result. Then out of nowhere Richard pitted and I thought to myself "Holy ****, p6?! Could this be real?".

Should've kept my emotions in check because I immediately clipped the curb on the last corner, spun into the pit lane and was completely disoriented.

Right when I moved someone just blasted right in front of me. "Wow, Richard is really exiting the pit lane fast!" I thought to myself. Moved a little bit more and saw another car speeding in front of me. That's when I realised I was in fact not in the pit lane but on the track, almost ending 2 people's races. To finish things off, when I finally could drive away I almost ran into Richard who was just exiting the pit lane.

This upset me so much that I just couldn't concentrate for the remainder of the race.

Towards the checkered flag
Now Mika was 4s behind me and approaching fast. Right before the righthander before the last hairpin I messed up again, lost control and almost took out Mika.

With 10 minutes to go there was a big gap in front and behind me so I tried to just be safe and finish the race.

Some thoughts about our multiclass
Reading Mika's frustrations concerning Mazdas not letting Abarths past made me think about the way our races are set up. It also made be think back at the moment Han and I had at Bremgarten. Should I have not defended there and let him past?

Even though the different cars race for different points, I never really saw the two as separate classes. Whenever there's an Abarth close behind me and I know a straight is coming up I make it a bit easier for them, but that's about it.

It might have to do with the fact that the Abarths on certain tracks and sections are actually slower than the Mazdas, making it possible to sometimes have an actual race between the two. Looking at other multiclass races - like the ones between GT and prototype cars - the differences are so big it makes sense that you make it easier for the faster car to overtake.

However I don't think we should go that route because it might make these races less suited for the less experienced drivers. They should be focusing on their racing lines and racecraft instead of looking into the rear-view mirror most of the time.

Anyway, just my two cents. I don't mind that these races aren't that strict, but I can imagine the frustration of the drivers in the faster class.

On to the next one!
Can't wait to finish this championship at Fonteny! Hope to see you all there for one last epic race before the end of the year.
Congrats to the podium! Especially Allan: you really deserved it mate! Thank you Han as always and see you all next week!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Thank you for your very kind words, felt really good

About the maturity, (you didn´t call me old, did you) this might have something to do with it:

So you actually are faster on the Sprint, but for the Endurance keeping it steady did it this time

As Fonteny has double the length that would be another chance to prove ( or disprove) this theorie.

I personally find the last two kilometers especially taxing as I tend to mix up corners "in the woods."
Because of that I´ll have to do some more "Recce" runs to look for markers, check the camber and memorize how the next corner will look.

I tried doing Recce in chase cam and it helps me to judge the camber and see the next corner better. also the wider field of view helps with aquiring markers
(blue tractor on the fields behind "Croix sanse tete" )

 

[Kek700]

Great write up Rico, you are right about, for me anyway, distracting circumstances, a yellow flag, some one running wide, thinking about a corner that you have gone through for many laps that you suddenly think this is a difficult corner and then you come off.

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

Thanks Rico,but Master,im not too sure lol..we have a lot of fast great guys now which make it a whole new ball game...

 

[Shed 17]

Right when I moved someone just blasted right in front of me. "Wow, Richard is really exiting the pit lane fast!" I thought to myself.

That was me Rico! I had Robert pushing me hard and as I came around the last corner I saw you at 90 degrees to the track and pointing at the pitlane. I took a deep breath and just went for the gap, luckily not making contact with you or Richard .

You are right about your description of Carsten, more often than not, keeping a cool head and trying to concentrate for the whole race will bring results. It's probably the main area where I find improvements, being consistent and staying on track. I won't be the fastest by a long way but hanging on in there and driving your own race will get you up the leaderboard as other fall away. (I have to admit at being one of the 'older' generation of drivers here!)

As for the multiclass, a couple of years ago we had the Audi TT and the MX5, I drove in both at sometime and the speed difference meant that the MX5 drivers were constantly looking in thier mirrors while the Audi drivers had to be very careful about passing as the closing speed was deceptive, often leading to incidents and some angry exchanges at times. You would often hear Carsten warning of incoming Audi's.

The current format is much better as the overall laptimes are very similar (track dependent) but you still have to consider the other cars strenghs and weakenesses. (Abarth Understeer and earlier braking). It will be even closer if the Suzuki is incuded. It is still a mutliclass so you don't have to fight the other class but it adds to the fun being able to race someone.

But concentration is still my weakness, it's so easy to take your eye of the ball for a split second and lose all the time you have previously made.

 

[HF2000]

Some thoughts about our multiclass

Actually I've been thinking to make it a monoclass because the Abarth and the Mazda are comparable in performance over a mix of tracks but unfortunately not often on a single track. Being stuck behind a car with different characteristics is quite common in racing. We also see that now in F1 with the Williams as a slower car is hard to overtake due to the top speed it has. It's the drivers capability that should deal with it by using the advantages of their own car at the right moments. This year I've been with my Abarth the lead of a 'Fazzi train' with Mazda's behind but guys like Jason and Fulvio have found a way to pass me. Maybe the other 'wagon' drivers should look at the replay and see how they are doing that.

Anyway, personally I like races with cars with different characteristics but similar performance. It adds dynamic to the race. With the Swift we have now a 3rd car in our events.

For next year I'm thinking of doing short championships with these 3 cars as a monoclass so everyone can decide which cars would be the best for them on the scheduled tracks.

Probably first with an Australian/New Zealand championship in Q1 of 2024.

 

[zn1zn2c]

Definitely agree that the different characteristics of the cars is a nice addition. Especially if they're more or less comparable in pace but have their advantages in certain sections. Watkins Glen comes to mind.

I think the results of the last couple of months speak in your favor for having a monoclass. Track selection is very important though. For example, I think it would've been a bad idea to organise the Fat Alfie championship as a monoclass. The Abarths seem to have the upper hand in most of the tracks because of all the flat-out sections. I'm very glad Carsten objected to that before we started.

 

[Kek700]

I would say that was once true, but not anymore, now I am biased admittedly.. Once you could easily say the Abarth is going to win. Now with everyone, it seems, really getting the hang of the Mazda and Abarth thing are not so cut and dried In fact far from it.
I would say the series is very well balanced. The only fly in the ointment is the Suzuki R3, ironically the rolls are reversed, it is the Mazda top speed
that separates the Suzuki and Mazda.

PS I think Han and I like it ( the Suzuki ) is the fact it seems to have very little understeer. Makes it more predictable
and safer to drive.

 

[Mikke73]

Regarding multiclass, this was really the first time that I have had a problem with it. And it was mostly a problem that I created myself, by messing up on the first lap. I tried to leave enough room on the inside at the first hairpin, but then clipped the outside brick wall and went across the track to have a picnic. Then having two more incidents during the first two laps, and I was already frustrated to begin with.

I also agree that racing these cars as monoclass would make sense. They're a bit too close to each other to really be a multiclass, because now they end up racing against each other anyway - and it can create some frustration in drivers who are just a bit too anxious to get past after royally effing up...

 

[stigs2cousin]

I´d have to contradict the monoclass idea once again as the "different characteristics" of the cars are way too track dependent

(although I could live with a monoclass Mazda/Suzuki on FatAlfie tracks )

I do think the recent system is "so not broken" aka a running system that we should refrain from messing with it.

 

[zn1zn2c]

Maybe it's a good idea to see what the data says. I've made two spreadsheets that compile the top 10 results and derived some statistics from them.

Regular multiclass
For the regular multiclass I chose VIR as the starting point as races started getting busier again after people came back from their vacations.

As you can see both classes are quite evenly matched with 59% of the points going to the Mazdas. The Abarth class does seem to have more winners, but there are more Mazdas in the top 5.

Fat Alfie Championship

The Fat Alfie championship is looking a bit different though. 62% of the points are going to the Abarths with them getting a podium 80%(!) of the time.

Now, numbers and statistics are kinda tricky and quite useless without context, so give them a bit of thought.
The fact our faster drivers usually drive in the Abarth class probably has something to do with that class racking up so many wins.

However, I still think the Abarths are faster on the FA tracks in general. Another interesting statistic is lap times: disregarding the aliens, most FA tracks are dominated by the Abarths.

Also, there usually are more Mazdas (especially before the introduction of the Suzukis), so that could explain why there are more Mazdas in the top 5 and why they have more points in general.

Here are the links if someone's interested in the data:
Fat Alfie
Regular

 

[stigs2cousin]

and it can create some frustration in drivers who are just a bit too anxious to get past after royally effing up...

Which was exactly the problem in the Audi/Mazda MC:

some of the Audists "knew" they faster were than the Mazda, (though in the corners they were not ) and disrespecting the corner rights of the Mazdaist dive bombed the **** out of both of them .

Other Audists then made a stink that we defended against "faster cars "

So that´s always a problem (when you don´t do a "One Make Cup Series)
In our Multiclass I´m willing to "ease the passing" of an Abarth in Sectors where it doesn´t compromise my line/speed up to the next braking zone.

Hairpin to Holzhausen for example:
A. is directly behind me, but doesn´t get the same exit speed.
A. could be alongside in the left downhill, forces me off line and to lift
Entry into Holzhausen compromised.
Holzhausen complete A. is holding me up. (if he doesn´t carefull it into the wall)
Exit Holzhausen A. catches up, forces me offline and to lift
Normally that´s WOT until the left after jump (between the fences)
Net loss several seconds, of course I defend and take a much smaller hit

Best advice I can give here:

"Just don´t **** up "

 

[stigs2cousin]

Maybe it's a good idea to see what the data says. I've made two spreadsheets that compile the top 10 results and derived some statistics from them.

Regular multiclass
For the regular multiclass I chose VIR as the starting point as races started getting busier again after people came back from their vacations.

View attachment 714486

As you can see both classes are quite evenly matched with 59% of the points going to the Mazdas. The Abarth class does seem to have more winners, but there are more Mazdas in the top 5.

Fat Alfie Championship
View attachment 714487

The Fat Alfie championship is looking a bit different though. 62% of the points are going to the Abarths with them getting a podium 80%(!) of the time.

Now, numbers and statistics are kinda tricky and quite useless without context, so give them a bit of thought.
The fact our faster drivers usually drive in the Abarth class probably has something to do with that class racking up so many wins.

However, I still think the Abarths are faster on the FA tracks in general. Another interesting statistic is lap times: disregarding the aliens, most FA tracks are dominated by the Abarths.

Also, there usually are more Mazdas (especially before the introduction of the Suzukis), so that could explain why there are more Mazdas in the top 5 and why they have more points in general.

Here are the links if someone's interested in the data:
Fat Alfie
Regular

Nice job, number crunching for a hobby.

But I think we have to "Churchill" this data some more
("never trust statistice you havn´t forged compiled yourself.)
So we´d need the data guy to develop am formula with regard to straight length, number and radii of corners for Han to discern on what tracks a mono class would be feasable because the cars are evenly matched.
This software should help (thanks to Mario Korf/Occams Raccer Blog):

OptimumLap | OptimumG

optimumg.com

Apart from that your version already made my point, on FatAlfie tracks the Abarth´s topspeed is a mayor advantage, so no need to complain.