F1 considering an end to its misogynistic grid girls feature

[MoerasGrizzly]

Bernie is an old fart, but for once I agree:

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...tone-offensive-pretty-women-standing-next-car

It's rather obvious that he would say that, since he's the one that introduced them into F1 for that sweet, sweet advertiser money. Bernie also thinks that women are physically incapable of driving cars fast (Hello Shirley!). There's certainly nothing offensive about it, or atleast certainly not to him, but, like many things Ecclestone, it is simply stupid.

Nobody watches these events because there's pretty women in them, especially not in the days where you can visit porn websites. But if Liberty Media wants to get rid of the image that F1 has as a "men's sport" (which they want to, because of aforementioned sweet, sweet advertiser money) they first need to get rid of the things that were introduced by an old fart who very much wanted it to be a men's sport.

 

[LeSunTzu]

A lot of "big" words has being said here, I was just giving one last look at it. Time to move on.
Racing in F1 won't be any more boring from it.
If you're still undecided or strongly against it, just picture a face your gf, wife, sis or mum on these amazing photos female bodies guys have take:

...and many many other...

I bet it feels just amazing now.

There was nothing remotely similar to that in recent F1 GPs.

This ban on grid girls is just another case of PC hypocrisy.

 

[Patrick van der Meulen]

@Slowdive has not yet substantiated his claim that males and females prefer different professions because of boilogy.

@Patrick van der Meulen despite being of the opinion that Slowdive's assertion is 'the rightful difference' your offer to 'Google that for me' did not produce any results that substantiate the claim.

Hypothetical situation then - say you ran an F1 team and advertised for an aerodynamicist. Two leading contenders for the role, one male, one female. Would you give the job to the male because you thought they'd be more interested in the job, based on Slowdive's insights into biology?

Third link on the search was https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html. If that’s (and many other sources in that search) is to you “not any result that substantiate the claim”... I’m afraid nothing will.

And your question is a fine example of putting things out of context. Just like Cathy Newman did in her interview with Jordan Peterson.

If you want your answer questioned, you have to watch the video for Jordan Peterson giving a perfect explanation of my view .

And now the time is come for you to substantiate your opinion with your facts.

 

[ears]

Third link on the search was https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html. If that’s (and many other sources in that search) is to you “not any result that substantiate the claim”... I’m afraid nothing will.

And your question is a fine example of putting things out of context. Just like Cathy Newman did in her interview with Jordan Peterson.

If you want your answer questioned, you have to watch the video for Jordan Peterson giving a perfect explanation of my view .

And now the time is come for you to substantiate your opinion with your facts.

Of course men and women are different, I don't think there's much controversy there. I'm just interested in these two claims

Men simply choose to go into motorsports more because they find it more interesting than women. Women go into nurturing professions like child care, teaching, and nursing because they find it more interesting by and large than men.

Men and women are biologically different. @Slowdive have given the rightful generic biological difference.

If these are opinions, then fair enough, everyone's free to have one. But they seem to be presented as fact and, I'm wondering if, if they are fact, if there's any source or reference that can back that up?

I skimmed through the article and video you linked to but I didn't see any substantiation of the vocational claim that men are interested in motor racing jobs and women are interested in nurturing professions.

I think everything I've said is an opinion, but if there's anything in particular you want me to try to substantiate, just ask and I'll do my best.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

If that’s (and many other sources in that search) is to you “not any result that substantiate the claim”... I’m afraid nothing will.

Nothing will. Consider the final paragraph of the source you linked:

Trying to assign exact percentages to the relative contributions of “culture” versus “biology” to the behavior of free-living human individuals in a complex social environment is tough at best. Halpern offers a succinct assessment: “The role of culture is not zero. The role of biology is not zero.”

This tends to be why I hugely dislike these internet discussions: Nature versus Nurture is an extremely complex subject in biology, one that can not be simply answered, and yet here we are with people trying to do just that. As your own source states at the end, the role of biology and culture are both "not zero". That's the most definitive statement that can be made about the whole ordeal: Nobody really knows what the differences are or why they exist, we only know that they are complex. This is made further complex because both "men" and "women" are a group that each roughly consist of more then 3 billion people. The differences between two random individuals is always far greater then the difference between the averages of those groups. Which makes any claim regarding the differences between women and men in regards to motorsport spurious. Hell, even the biology of men and women is fuzzy, but let's not dive into the realm of intersex and de La Chapelle for the sake of a forum discussion about grid girls!

We only know that, presently, more men partake in motorsport then women do. That doesn't really answer the advertising opportunities that Liberty media is missing out of in favour of having grid girls (such as the wonderful suggestion of grid kids, above). Grid girls (or "Pit pussies" as they've also been referred to) don't add anything to the sport. They're there because Ecclestone wanted them to be there, and Ecclestone wanted them to be there because someone offered him money. Undoubtedly, Liberty Media thinks there's more money to be made by putting something else in front of those cars during the gridding up. That's the only real thing that's up for discussion here.

 

[Andy_J]

I take it some of you politically correct do-good feminasties didn't contribute to this wonderful thread?
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-pit-babes-thread.58107/

 

[Patrick van der Meulen]

I take it some of you politically correct do-good feminasties didn't contribute to this wonderful thread?
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-pit-babes-thread.58107/

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=male feminist

 

[paracletus]

Islamists will be pleased.

 

[ears]

I take it some of you politically correct do-good feminasties didn't contribute to this wonderful thread?
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-pit-babes-thread.58107/

I am aware of its existence.

If memory serves, it was once explicitly referred to as a perk of RD membership.

 

[Andy_J]

If memory serves, it was once explicitly referred to as a perk of RD membership.

One of the best perks here too. Some wonderful sights to behold and admire. Alas maybe a thing of the past now.

 

[ears]

One of the best perks here too. Some wonderful sights to behold and admire. Alas maybe a thing of the past now.

Once upon a time, Mr Jackson, I think I had a somewhat heated debate with you about something or other. VR probably. But I've long since come to quite like and respect you from reading your posts here.

No emoji or whatever they call those like things on the post could have said this without appearing sarcastic so I'm using words instead.

There are many things we agree on, but this is not one of them!

 

[Andy_J]

Once upon a time, Mr Jackson, I think I had a somewhat heated debate with you about something or other. VR probably. But I've long since come to quite like and respect you from reading your posts here.

No emoji or whatever they call those like things on the post could have said this without appearing sarcastic so I'm using words instead.

There are many things we agree on, but this is not one of them!

Thank you Mr Ears and I agree with you regarding your last sentence. Agree to disagree on this matter.

 

[gamer19]

Or daughter...

You won't believe it but later today I remember my post and I thought "oh snap I forgot daughters" but there you are... with the same idea. Great minds think the same, they say.
But hush my friend you see how much scary (life changing!) "disagrees" we've got, isn't the best to just ...blend in ?

You know, some people use cars to run people over intentionally and kill them. I bet you feel bad about simulating car driving now.

You remind me of one of my colleague... he too compares virtually incomparable things. Yup, spot on... he's not funny too.

Anyway... it's actually a great idea. Let's, in the light of sexual equality, have one week all girls and another all guys (yes, with "u") pre-race grid girls. Pre-race human beings I mean, I apologize.

Oh boy... somehow I feel like we (let's not talk about who "we" are please) are outnumbered, I wonder where @girlracerTracey and @karina-moskva are now ?
Sewing their latest "like, it's there but you can actually see it all" costumes ?


Oh there they are !

mmmm, yes, I could watch this race anytime !

 

[Slowdive]

As @Andy Jackson
Unless you have some research into the desires and interests of men and women you care to share with us?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160715114739.htm
https://www.njstateauto.com/blog/car-color-preferences-are-divided-by-gender-study-shows/
https://psychcentral.com/news/2017/...der-differences-in-brain-activity/124415.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012...ldren-toy-preferences-hormones_n_1827727.html

I could go on and on, but I don't want to spam you too hard. The bottom line is that men and women are psychologically fundamentally different. This is science, not opinion.

As @Andy Jackson y yo you for being the first to introduce homosexuality into the conversation. Care to elaborate further on its relevance?

I pointed out homosexual women being disappointed about the move by F1, because everyone seems to think only creepy horny men find gorgeous women pleasing to the eye. I wanted to highlight that women also can find them attractive. I'm surprised you didn't see the relevance given the ridiculous post by gamer19.

 

[Slowdive]

@Slowdive has not yet substantiated his claim that males and females prefer different professions because of boilogy.

I'll even go further than the studies I've provided and point out that in college, where students are free to pursue whatever interests them, there is a huge gender imbalance in the fields of study that men and women choose. You see far more men going into engineering and far more women going into education. In fact we see that the more progressive a society is, where men and women are truly free to choose what they want out of life, the greater the gender disparity.

These are facts and are not in dispute.

 

[Slowdive]

You remind me of one of my colleague... he too compares virtually incomparable things. Yup, spot on... he's not funny too.

I see my point was lost on you. Yes, you are the one comparing virtually incomparable things. You are making a false equivalency between some creepy guy shooting a picture up someone's skirt and grid girls standing in front of a car. Bravo for intellectual dishonesty.

Anyway... it's actually a great idea. Let's, in the light of sexual equality, have one week all girls and another all guys (yes, with "u") pre-race grid girls. Pre-race human beings I mean, I apologize.

I would have no problem with a bunch of good looking male models sporting Gucci and Richard Mille watches acting as grid guys. However, the key to marketing is to know your target audience, which in this case happens to be predominantly male. And males tend to like to look at good looking females. It's not a crime, although it will be soon if you have your way.

 

[Slowdive]

Nobody watches these events because there's pretty women in them, especially not in the days where you can visit porn websites. But if Liberty Media wants to get rid of the image that F1 has as a "men's sport" (which they want to, because of aforementioned sweet, sweet advertiser money) they first need to get rid of the things that were introduced by an old fart who very much wanted it to be a men's sport.

You make a fair point, however have you considered that women who are not totally insecure do not mind looking at other pretty women? You also seem to assume that this wasn't a men's sport before the introduction of grid girls. It's not the reason men are predominantly interested in motorsports, it is the by-product.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I would have no problem with a bunch of good looking male models sporting Gucci and Richard Mille watches acting as grid guys. However, the key to marketing is to know your target audience, which in this case happens to be predominantly male. And males tend to like to look at good looking females. It's not a crime, although it will be soon if you have your way.

Just on a little sidenote from what's the topic here, I do understand the whole idea at "looking at humans that you find 'hawt'". But, do anyone really buy a Rolex timepiece, Hugo Boss clothing because some woman wears it at a race-event. Or would it be better to employ very anatomically attractive built men, who from an objective standpoint "looks good", and dress them up, to show how good you can look in the clothes, and how great addition the timepiece is with that outfit?

I would've expected the second to yield more sales, but that's just my idea of it and what I look at when I am buying things.

You make a fair point, however have you considered that women who are not totally insecure do not mind looking at other pretty women? You also seem to assume that this wasn't a men's sport before the introduction of grid girls. It's not the reason men are predominantly interested in motorsports, it is the by-product.

Wouldn't that mean that when grid guys were used, it should've been fine. But I seem to remember there being a quite vocal group complaining about the lack of grid girls, and that grid guys were something "wrong"/"bad"/"negative".

 

[ears]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160715114739.htm
https://www.njstateauto.com/blog/car-color-preferences-are-divided-by-gender-study-shows/
https://psychcentral.com/news/2017/...der-differences-in-brain-activity/124415.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012...ldren-toy-preferences-hormones_n_1827727.html

I could go on and on, but I don't want to spam you too hard. The bottom line is that men and women are psychologically fundamentally different. This is science, not opinion.
.

Please don't spam me.

Please just provide one direct link that substantiates this claim with study, research or proof.

Men simply choose to go into motorsports more because they find it more interesting than women. Women go into nurturing professions like child care, teaching, and nursing because they find it more interesting by and large than men.

Or, concede that it is just your opinion, and it is no more or less relevant than any others on this thread.

 

[Slowdive]

Please don't spam me.

Please just provide one direct link that substantiates this claim with study, research or proof.

Or, concede that it is just your opinion, and it is no more or less relevant than any others on this thread.

I just provided you with four links to scientific evidence that men and women psychologically function differently and have different preferences. It is not my opinion, it is a fact. I understand that this evidence conflicts with your worldview, but it would be foolish to dismiss it as opinion.

The one thing that is important to remember in this is that just because the science can show us that women and men have different desires, does not mean that these generalizations are universal. It's why you see a small number of women in motorsports and see a small number of men in knitting circles. The notion that there needs to be a 50/50 gender split in every aspect of life is not only unachievable, it's absurd and undesirable. You'll rarely see a feminist arguing that there aren't enough women represented in coal mines.